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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Suggestions
wish list for next puppy release
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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rufwoof


Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 3725

PostPosted: Sat 23 Feb 2019, 16:31    Post subject: Re: Barebones  

mikeslr wrote:
Just a barebones of any flavor Puppy, perhaps having as "User-Apps" only a terminal and geany; but having access to a repo and all the necessary infra-structure applications for a user to take it from that state to wherever (s)he wants.

The terminals can be relatively nice/functional with just a few relatively small programs. tmux (multiple windows, split windows into panes (that you can zoom/unzoom). cmus music player, mc file manager and text editor, lynx terminal web browser. For the rest, startx and dotpup (or sfs get).

Actual image of my ctrl-alt-F2 terminal (taken using fbcat/fbgrab). [I have video-800x600 kernel boot parameter hence the 'actual' image size].
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oui

Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 3606
Location: near Woof (Germany) :-) - 3 PC's: DELL SX280 750 MB Pentium4, Acer emachines 2 GB AMD64. DELL XPS15

PostPosted: Sat 23 Feb 2019, 17:24    Post subject: Re: Barebones  

rufwoof wrote:
mikeslr wrote:
Just a barebones of any flavor Puppy, perhaps having as "User-Apps" only a terminal and geany; but having access to a repo and all the necessary infra-structure applications for a user to take it from that state to wherever (s)he wants.

The terminals can be relatively nice/functional with just a few relatively small programs. tmux (multiple windows, split windows into panes (that you can zoom/unzoom). cmus music player, mc file manager and text editor, lynx terminal web browser. For the rest, startx and dotpup (or sfs get).

Actual image of my ctrl-alt-F2 terminal (taken using fbcat/fbgrab). [I have video-800x600 kernel boot parameter hence the 'actual' image size].


it's true. a lot of developers includes in their new puppy's/puplets some browsers don't useful for each one because the human is an custom animal... links2 is small (as small as lynx but can be used as graphic browser with pictures or without only in CLI). if you wish only a browser only for webpages (man pages in html code) you can use rhapsody if you find the source, it compile also easily in 64 version (ab. 70 kb!). it is old but this is no problem on simple html code in English. so no need to install a browser which the most users will not accept and making a need to desinstall (if in the list of desinstallable app's, it is not always so) and actualise all the pointers for a acceptable browser, tosay accepting HTML5 and youtube Idea . better only rhapsody, links (CLI mode only) or links2 (4 mb like lynx Wink but both CLI and graphic mode, in graphic mode with active pictures) as all the never more actual midori, light etc.

a barbone would make each puppy full environment more perfect and is an important intermediary step of development...

CLI app's well working in console:

- files and tree management with clex and or ranger (ranger with text previews! clex is useful to avoid to write long addresses in complex trees using F2)

- texteditor nano. nano is a bridge between CLI and gaphic mode as you can interchange with graphic mode app's using the mouse. experts in nano will probably never change it for a more complex editor. spell checking is possible. HTML 4 in CLI gives access to divers format codes without graphic mode. you can see the success in links / links2 !

- sc, the venerable spreadsheet, extremely small (for those rarely using an spreadsheet often fully enough! Idea but not able to play with special char's from foreign languages)

- above named browsers

- didiwiki in those browsers Wink (why not? start if necessary in cli didiwiki ; and after that in the browser invoque http://localhost: 8000 or 8080. you can build youself pages for your selfmade calender etc. didiwiki is a good smart writing editor with fat, italic, underlined writing stile [url]and can also host pictures[/url]! Links / links2 and didiwiki are a wonderful base to work seriously in CLI! the text are compact and the saving happens in simple text format!

- cups, yes cups is simply using in CLI mode. save the *.ppd file of you own printer and you have a compact installation not needing some gutenprint filters. it is the perfect helper for didiwiki in links / links2 !

- alsa stuff!

- samba. yes samba does not really need some graphic mode!

hum ...

- also arachnee, the graphic browser in CLI linux systems through the svgalib ?

why not?

(I know: it is very difficult to be happy with the codes needing to manage the screen... a complete actualisation would be needing!)

- latex and all the stuff for professional writing and print books and long texts or music scores? why not? the German mathematician Emil did give us stuff at the murga-linux/puppy forum (take care, those *.sfs are very heavy!)

- development environments for a lot of program languages from basic and Forth to the most complex AI languages through really classical like C, Pascal etc. ...

we can do more in CLI mode as it's appear if you are not really attentive!
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lvds


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 340
Location: Near the window

PostPosted: Thu 02 Apr 2020, 09:24    Post subject:  

Edit: post deleted by me, the JWMdesk suggestions have been submitted in the JWMdesk thread at
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1054561#1054561
and the others suggestions have been rewrote with additional content in another post here below.

Last edited by lvds on Fri 03 Apr 2020, 09:53; edited 1 time in total
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Moose On The Loose


Joined: 24 Feb 2011
Posts: 970

PostPosted: Thu 02 Apr 2020, 11:24    Post subject:  

I have started work on a bit of an odd project but a few ideas came up that I think others may want to add to their systems.

1) The initial boot uses an SFS with the absolute minimum to make a GUI that can be used. This is so you can rescue thing from a broken windows machine. All the rest is in a second or also perhaps a 3rd SFS. With this extra SFS you have a system that is "ready for prime time"

2) I have come up with a new "help" script that generates index pages on the fly so that any new feature added via an added SFS also can add its help to the help system. This means that the help offers help rather than having to search for the documentation. I intend to make this public soon.

3) The version should come with a web browser that works but can later be replaced or updated. Web browsers do change quite a lot but a system with no web browser can be pretty useless when the network is very constrained and also can be a reason for "I will just use Windows then"

4) When someone plugs in a camera or tablet or something else that does the MTP, an icon like the USB flash drive one should appear on the screen beside the hard drives and flash drives. Clicking on this should mount the device and bring it up for the standard file browsing of ROX. The user should not have to learn some new user interface for the device and certainly should not need to understand terms that they don't need to know to get the pictures from the camera or ever to put some music files on.

5) At some point I may publish my own "net neighborhoot" thing that works on SAMBA driven networks that are quite broken. I have a thing that is quite clunky but works for this. The idea is that you try multiple methods to find the servers and also remember what you found last time. This way you don't have to make a "NMB master browser" on the network that is a working Linux machine to be able to share files.
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 3444
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Fri 03 Apr 2020, 02:55    Post subject:  

I think a logical step would be to exclude components from the base sfs which needs constant updating (like the internet browser). Just add those items as an adrv/ydrv, extra sfs's.
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lvds


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 340
Location: Near the window

PostPosted: Fri 03 Apr 2020, 09:54    Post subject: My wish list and problem details  

Hi everyone, I have deleted my previous post as many suggestions were dedicated to
JWMdesk, and I have posted them in the related thread, so it could be easier to follow.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1054561#1054561

Here follow a list of problems I found or suggestions for puppy :

*** As discussed above by others, I second it would be much better to have a windows
selector like QuickPet, running at first run, to let the user select its favorites applications
for office, graphics, internet and email, and download them, rather than have abiword,
gnumeric, mtpaint, homebank, inkscape, claws mail, etc. installed by default. This will
make the distribution lighter and the user happy to find its favorites softwares ! Smile

*** IP Info - Network information -> DNS -> it would be great to have a button so we can edit
/etc/resolv.conf.head and /etc/resolv.conf.tail

and also a button to add openDNS automatically, that is something among the firsts things I usually do,
is to add 208.67.220.220 and 208.67.222.222 into /etc/resolv.conf.head

*** It would be great to be able to set a password to prevent anyone to use your puppy.
I'm not talking about encryption of the home directory and such, just simple set a
password so when puppy boot it will ask for the password. And let the user set it somewhere
into JWMdesk / Options, or maybe into Puppy_Setup...

*** I noticed something weird with urxvt terminal: When I open a terminal with a click on terminal icon in the panel, it is all
good, BUT opening a terminal with the "Urxvt Terminal Emulator" found in Menu -> Utility
open a terminal looking "weird" (not as the first one).

*** Retrovol Sound mixer windows does not display fine when opened
at first run (windows is too short and things inside have no margins ...)

*** Partview display only numbers for total size and free size on
partitions, but not the number for the used size, which
could be written at the place of the actual total size, and
Total size is not written "total" after the number.
exemple:
sdb1 [ext3] 30G total [|||||||||| 1.4G used / 28.6G free ]

*** Simple GTK Radio could be replaced with odio, see it here
https://www.linux-apps.com/p/1282377/

*** support for AppImages, so when a user want to install an AppImage into puppy,
the brand new AppImage software is registered into the menu with other applications.

*** Now, about something very weird behavior into the systray, I will try to explain as much I can the problem:
1. left or right mouse clic on clipboard manager and a little menu open: all good.
2. right mouse click on battery monitor and a little menu open: all good.
3. right mouse click on firewall and a little menu open which is NOT above the panel BUT INSIDE the panel,
which instantly activate the option "turn firewall OFF" when you release the mouse button even if you did not intend to !
4. the same problem stands for the simple network setup icon in the systray: a right mouse clic on the icon
and you de-activate the network Sad even when not intended to do it.
5. left or right mouse clic on cpugraph does not launch the taskmanager
6. right mouse clic on horloge time launch PupClockSet fine but the left mouse click does not launch osmo calendar.

*** StickyJWM would be a great addition too, with a tool inside JWMdesk to
setup averything and shortcuts, see:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=906396#906396

MANY THANKS EVERYONE FOR YOUR HARD WORK !!
You're doing great and I'm proud to be a puppy user Smile

Laurent
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vtpup


Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 1422
Location: Republic of Vermont

PostPosted: Tue 07 Apr 2020, 15:33    Post subject:  

My biggest suggestion is to make the next release a Chromebook-friendly Puppy.

There are tens of thousands of Chromebooks in public schools even in my rural state, and parents are now buying them in large numbers as well.

It would be nice to be able to boot something other than the ChromeOS, and break the Google leash.

Note, I have used GalliumOS (lubuntu-ish) extensively on the Acer R11, and all I can say is, it's a very painful user experience compared to any Puppy I've ever tried. I'm grateful at least one alternative OS exists, but man, Puppy would be a breath of fresh air on this box.

Anyway, Chromebooks are a big userbase -- a Puppy which works with them would be a great boon.

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Burn_IT


Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 3702
Location: Tamworth UK

PostPosted: Tue 07 Apr 2020, 17:49    Post subject:  

I don't think that is the right question to ask since a Chromebook is just hardware with the Chrome OS installed as default. What may be needed is a way to break the initial program load sequence so that a different OS can be selected as well. That may be difficult if the load is burned into the hardware/chips which I suspect it is.

I do not have one and have never used one so I am just guessing from what I have read/heard.

It may take talking Google into opening up the firmware which I suspect will be difficult or expensive given that they seem to have a pretty good stranglehold on the current market.

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vtpup


Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 1422
Location: Republic of Vermont

PostPosted: Tue 07 Apr 2020, 19:09    Post subject:  

There is a well developed independent means for using numerous alternate OS's in most Chromebooks already. Please read, if inrerested:

https://mrchromebox.tech/

After using any of those methods, the main issues found with running Puppies on Chromebooks seem to revolve around making the audio work, and to a lesser degree, keyboards and mousepads working well.

Again, as a suggestion I would really like to see some attention to Chromebook needs addressed in the next Puppy, if possible.

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C720 Chromebk Bionicpup64
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alibadrelsayed


Joined: 29 Jan 2019
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Fri 12 Jun 2020, 07:24    Post subject:  

Looking to see full dpkg in the next release.
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