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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
ChurchPup Alpha Discussion
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KF6SNJ

Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 698
Location: Distressed States of Amerika

PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov 2007, 16:42    Post subject:  

WhoDo,

Those look really great. Bravo Zulu on a job well done. I especially liked the CityLife one. It has a certain subtleness to it. Cool.

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cb88


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 1169
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov 2007, 21:56    Post subject:  

IMO all the big addons should be developed as sfs modules and uploaded then they can be mounted and copied into a single folder then that folder can be rebuilt as an sfs to make full blown churchpup

I just remastered teenpup this way by mounting pup_214.sfs and copying its contents to a folder then also copying the contents of devx_214.sfs so it now has Gcc also then removed the old pup_214.sfs from the iso with isomaster that is already in puppy and added in the new pup_214.sfs

the contributions such as the latest wine or java or whatever should be available to all puppy users not just churchpup as that goes I would like to remaster teen pup with the bible apps....

It may be even better to package these packages as .7z files since they have very good compression and then repackage them client side so you could implement a super puppy remaster system on par with nimblex linux. another reason to package as .7z is that .sfs files use up loop devices when you mount them so far I have no idea how to get these back after unmounting so I can only mount a couple before having to reboot so i can mount more....

personally I would like to see an ncurses based bible app without java or anything call it picochurchpup... its all about spreading The Word

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Subito Piano


Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 488
Location: UPSTATE New York

PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov 2007, 23:07    Post subject:  

I agree that anything created for ChurchPup should definitely be made available through the regular Puppy pages to all users -- once the add-ons are thoroughly tested.

I know that we could create a minimal ChurchPup (Lite version) and leave it at that, letting users download and install sfs files or dotpets, etc. I like the idea of TWO churchpups, both full-size and lite. My thinking is always to accommodate (and attract) the new linux user. I also want to have two choices "ready-to-go" on a live CD for those who don't know how to remaster, and honestly don't have enough time to learn how to do it.

I think in this way we will be able to kindle interest from those who have never tried anything but Windows as well as accommodate the seasoned linux regulars--not to mention enabling the use of older equipment, assisting those with limited funds, and all the usual Puppy benefits.

It was pointed out to me that probably the "lite" should have come first, then the full-size. It's a good point! Alas, it's a little late. Probably no lite before January 1 at the earliest...
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cb88


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 1169
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov 2007, 23:31    Post subject:  

agreed what i was aiming at is a lot of people myself included will not want to use church pup all the time but would rather remaster say bibledesktop into thier own puppy.....

the full iso is also ideal for churches and I think it is a good idea I in no way meant that only remastering should be offered (yes i realize you didn't say that just restating) but it is an essential option for the functions in churchpup to actaully be taken up and used

as you already know I highly dislike bloat like java and wine even though there isn't a better option

the fact is that a generic bible program that is written in c (maximum portablity and cleaness of code....but perhaps even a bash script would even be adequate...) with minimal dependancies and console gtk or sdl output is needed...

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KF6SNJ

Joined: 19 Jun 2007
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Location: Distressed States of Amerika

PostPosted: Tue 13 Nov 2007, 01:48    Post subject:  

cb88 wrote:


the fact is that a generic bible program that is written in c (maximum portablity and cleaness of code....but perhaps even a bash script would even be adequate...) with minimal dependancies and console gtk or sdl output is needed...


You have a valid point. The problem is that most of us may want something that is capable of using the pre-existing sword modules rather than having to create our own (though I may have to do this anyway for the Theologia Germanica). The question then becomes how do we create a program that will fill that need without using java? What if we want to compare multiple translations and/or languages? Concordances? Lexicons? While a casual Bible study may not require such tools, a serious Bible scholar, pastor, or seminary student will. It takes quite a few references to write a report about a topic of scripture or to write a sermon, which I have done both. A generic console Bible parsing tool won't suffice in such a situation. Again, it boils down to need. Very few programs are available that can fill this need. I will state plainly that a console based program would likely not work for my needs.

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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Tue 13 Nov 2007, 01:51    Post subject:  

KF6SNJ wrote:
I especially liked the CityLife one. It has a certain subtleness to it. Cool.

Yes, that's my favourite too. It conveys the message while leaving so much open to personal interpretation as the spirit is moved. Just like the Word, really. Wink

Cheers.

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Subito Piano


Joined: 27 May 2007
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PostPosted: Tue 13 Nov 2007, 03:34    Post subject:  

Christopher, you are right -- and so is cb88! IF we could get a Bible program sans java and wine, that might be perfect for the Lite version. The full version would be, well, FULL!

FWIW, i have a copy of the NASB Quick Bible. I simply open it as text and have basic search functions available. I also have Bible Time but use online Bibles the most.

Also - any good thoughts on how to reduce the memory usage without sacrificing needed programs? (Heh, heh -- i say this but i'm not the one doing the work on the full version! Cool )

Seriously, if anyone sees a way to cut the fat please post it here.
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LOF


Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 115
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue 13 Nov 2007, 03:43    Post subject:  

Right first of, WhoDo thanks for all those screenshots and ideas. They really are awesome. Thanks for your suggestions, I'll leave it open to the community to decide what they like and dislike. Does anyone have a preference towards any themes/backgrounds? (BTW I agree, Citylife is nice)

As to the future style of ChurchPup production:

Maybe the end goal will be to have:
- A full blown ChurchPup iso (aimed at actual Churches and power users)
- A light/lite ChurchPup iso (aimed at your everyday Christian with average/older machine)
- Individual packages for each program in ChurchPup
- An SFS with all ChurchPup addons (ie everything added that wouldn't be in normal Puppy)
- An SFS with all christian addons (ie just the christian programs)

We're sorta doing a number of these already (packages/full-blown)

This would allow a huge variety of different options to those interested.

They could:
- Add ChurchPup or Christian programs to their existing Puppy
- Go from scratch either big or small
- Just add programs they like/want

Hopefully that makes sense. This is just me talking BTW, I haven't talked to my team yet.

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37fleetwood


Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 403

PostPosted: Wed 14 Nov 2007, 02:31    Post subject:  

believe it or not I'm still here Very Happy I downloaded the alpha and really like it. I am not a seminary student nor a pastor of a church but I do apreciate having the ability to get to the bottom of some semi advanced lines of inquiry. I have a newer computer and would rather have the option to get a full boat iso rather than going the more modular way. I also apreciate the need to make an iso compatible with smaller more limited systems. personally I wouldn't mind too much if the full iso pushed into the dvd range as long as good stuff were being added Very Happy Very Happy . I just apreciate that you guys are willing to put this together for guys like me who don't know too much about doing this kind of work.
May God richly Bless your efforts!
Scott Cool
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cb88


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Wed 14 Nov 2007, 13:28    Post subject:  

what exactly does a sword module consist of anyway? I assume it is just a text file or a database with an index I see no reason why it could not be accessed with a program written in practically any language. Even if it is a binary file that could be figured out....
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KF6SNJ

Joined: 19 Jun 2007
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Location: Distressed States of Amerika

PostPosted: Wed 14 Nov 2007, 23:39    Post subject:  

cb88 wrote:
what exactly does a sword module consist of anyway? I assume it is just a text file or a database with an index I see no reason why it could not be accessed with a program written in practically any language. Even if it is a binary file that could be figured out....



Each module has three files. For example, the Book of Concord has concord.bdt, concord.dat and concord.idx. Yes, you could attempt to open them with AbiWord or another text program, but it may not appear very meaningful (most of it looked like gibberish, but I was able to read the words "three ecumenical creeds"). However, if you would like to create a cli based application to use a sword module, you have a lot of work ahead of you. I don't quite understand how the program accesses the modules so that what we see it readable. Honestly, I am happy just to have a tool that already works.
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Subito Piano


Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 488
Location: UPSTATE New York

PostPosted: Sat 17 Nov 2007, 10:33    Post subject:  

I'm probably talking myself into doing the lite version. Hmm....

Maybe it should be called ChapelPup! Razz

If i do, i'll need some help. First off, what is a good lightweight Bible study program? If Wine is a resource hog, then the Bible program has to be native Linux. I think that something with basic search functions and the ability to add several translations would be good. If would can keep memory usage down and have dictionaries, etc., so much the better.

My thinking on a Lite version is not so much the CD size but the memory/CPU usage. In other words, i think it's OK to have 200 MB on the CD BUT i want to keep the memory needs down to the traditional Puppy limit of 128MB, able to run on a P-II or maybe even a P-I without dogging it! (OK, OK, terrible pun there...)

Any thoughts?
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klu9

Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Posts: 345

PostPosted: Sat 17 Nov 2007, 10:53    Post subject:  

"if wine is a resource hog"

I'm no expert, but I don't think WINE can be a resource hog; remember it stands for "WINE Is Not an Emulator".

It doesn't consume resources, it just provides a compatibility layer for Windows programs. The amount of resources consumed depends on the Windows app and the operating system.

I even remember reading somewhere that people had measured Windows programs running faster in WINE on some distros than in Windows itself.

But I may be wrong.
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Subito Piano


Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 488
Location: UPSTATE New York

PostPosted: Sat 17 Nov 2007, 11:49    Post subject:  

P.S. regarding Bible software for the lite version-- Puppy 3 is, of course, slackware-compatible. Does that give us access to a lightweight program? For instance, there are a couple listed here. I have no experience with Slackware packages in Puppy but am willing to try -- however, if someone has already done this, a little guidance is welcome! Basically, i've only used Bible Time in Linux (and e-sword in Windoze); mostly i go to online sources such as BlueletterBible and BibleGateway.

Again, the goal is speed and older equipment; the regular ChurchPup, not lite, is for a complete set of packages.

Thanks!
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KF6SNJ

Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 698
Location: Distressed States of Amerika

PostPosted: Sat 17 Nov 2007, 15:20    Post subject:  

I tried the gslapt package for puppy. Yes, the slackware apps worked, but unfortunately, it made other packages that I had installed using either the pet installer or dotpups not work. I wound up having to completely reinstall puppy to fix everything. To me, it wasn't worth it. I don't believe that directly using slackware packages on puppy is the best of ideas. It would probably be better to port over what we can and leave it at that. Such being the case, we already have several viable bible study tools that readily available. Also, ChurchPup doesn't need to be too big to begin with. I would say not more than about 250Mb, and even that may seem a bit large. We really should keep it simple.
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