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Phoenix CE - A front end for the Community Editions
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Lobster
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PostPosted: Wed 10 Oct 2007, 07:31    Post subject:  Phoenix CE - A front end for the Community Editions
Subject description: The adventures of "Scruffy"
 



Talking Stick Wiki Page
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/TalkingStick



This is part of a wizard / front end for Talking Stick
Latest image above

Anyone wishing to help with html (info files)
or bash scripting using gtkdialog3 (mainly) let me know and I will provide the code Smile

As soon as it is working testers with Puppy 3 will be required Smile

UPDATE

I have separated the program into two main parts
Scruffy (an animated icon) greets the new user

If Flite is installed the wizard talks

At the moment I am concentrating on Ezpup.pet (installs flite and Icewm themes AND support for 3D drivers - this needs updating for Nvidia)

The other files are all sfs - graphics, wine, developer (C C++ freebasic) open office

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cb88


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 1169
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed 10 Oct 2007, 12:59    Post subject:  

ok i d`had seen this thread then forgot about it LOL

so

ask user how to install
merge sfs (future of remaster?)
install to usr/home (or were ever it need to be dependant on the install type)
extract to pupsave (now i remember what that is good for HD installs!)

and how will the download be done?

what about metalinks with aria2 that way the download is well shared between the servers or very fast if the severs aren't busy even if they are all overloaded there is still the possiblity of torrents through the metalink if it times out too much then wget is automatically used

also which wine is that the latest is wow's sfs wine 1.46

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alienjeff


Joined: 08 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed 10 Oct 2007, 13:10    Post subject:  

"Scruffy sez"? Is this where the CE of Puppy is going? The "Clippy-fication" of Puppy?

I'm not sure whether I should laugh or mourn. I suppose I'll do both, in that order.

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cb88


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Oct 2007, 17:19    Post subject:  

I am inclined to agree with aj. I'm not too keen on scruffy even though your wizard is a good idea...

perhaps a revised version of the talking stick logo saying "Talking Stick" and "Extensions" below it just to keep it sraight foward and professonal.

honestly I didn't notice scruffy that much when I first glanced at it but well it seems a little much however i liked clippy.....hated the search dog though just a waste...guess clippy was too but it did wierd stuff when you clicked on it ....remembering win 95 when clippy was new and "facinating" i mean i was only 8 years old i guess...

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Lobster
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PostPosted: Wed 10 Oct 2007, 20:06    Post subject: Flash  

Quote:
and how will the download be done?


At the moment the download is done with wget and a depository
here
http://www.puppylinux.ca/lobster/

The code is simple to understand and I will make it available in the next few days for download for those willing and able to improve and develop.

With Flite included, which may or may not happen, the wizard can be made to talk. Some of that code is in place.

Smile

Another component that should be in Puppy 3.01 is Slackware support
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=141897#141897

I did have this as a menu option (but not implemented) but will leave it out for now

Also there are 3 versions of Flash available
7
8
9 Beta

Puppy 3 only seems to have 7?
which is very stable
Barry did mention having 8 available as an option . . .
not sure if that is in Puppy 3?

So we shall see how that develops and flash 9 Beta might mature and we can have that as a Scruffy option

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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Thu 11 Oct 2007, 01:40    Post subject: Hi there  

Hello Lobster

You are certainly on the right track when it comes to making puppy user friendly, "cant be made to work" and "cant be got working by the average user" both add up to the same thing, NOT WORKING!!!! I would rather put up with clippy as an inconvenience on a working machine than have to spend hours trawling through man pages just to compile and install software. Your efforts have not gone unnoticed.

From the puppy mission statement

Quote:
Puppy will be extremely friendly for Linux newbies.


Note this means Linux newbies, not computer newbies. I would say that most people that download and use puppy would have some background in computing. Onscreen characters were much more popular with users than they ever were with developers (yes, I know people that actually LIKE clippy!). In puppy's case though I do think your setting your aims slightly further towards the computer novice end rather than the linux novice. Your certainly closer to the mark than linux has traditionally been though, well done.

I particularly like the "geek info" section. One of linuxes great strengths is that you can get "under the hood" when needed. Linux still has a bit of a "geek" image (which is getting cooler, anyone heard of "Geek Chic"?). I think to save space for the main function of the program, this should be a separate button that pops up a new window rather than in a frame ( [Geek info...] ).

At the moment puppy offers a plethora of different ways of installing programs (.pups .pets, puppy package manager, PSI etc). I like the idea of having the base packages (.sfs modules) available on one screen. Perhaps for the interface having tabs...

________ _________________ ______________________
| Base | | Slackware Modules | | Other Software installers |

The base page should show pretty much what you have there. The Slackware tab should contain TESTED working slackware module. Perhaps this should should be downloaded from a list of pre-tested ones, also with a description (testing is something a lot of people on the forum think there should be more put into). The other software installers tab should have buttons and quick descriptions and links to pupget, petget, psi etc. with warnings that the software contained there might not work 100%.

Having a feature of being able to install packages from the cd would allow people to make their own cd with the base mdoules on that they want, plus any slackware modules. It should reduce waiting times to install things and decrease the load on our already belegured servers too. Im not shure how this should beimplemented though.



[/quote]

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Lobster
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PostPosted: Thu 11 Oct 2007, 02:32    Post subject: Re: Hi there  

ecomoney wrote:

In puppy's case though I do think your setting your aims slightly further towards the computer novice end rather than the linux novice. Your certainly closer to the mark than linux has traditionally been though, well done.


LOL - I was going to call him Fluffy (the wizards dog from Harry Potter)
However that component of ease of use / avatar is still evolving.

Quote:
I think to save space for the main function of the program, this should be a separate button that pops up a new window rather than in a frame ( [Geek info...] ).


That is a good idea - I can do that


Quote:
At the moment puppy offers a plethora of different ways of installing programs (.pups .pets, puppy package manager, PSI etc). I like the idea of having the base packages (.sfs modules) available on one screen. Perhaps for the interface having tabs...
________ _________________ ______________________
| Base | | Slackware Modules | | Other Software installers |


Most users are not concerned whether software comes via slackware, sfs, .pet or Debian
Does it download. Does it work. At the moment I have used sfs because it is easy to implement

MU's PSI (Puppy Software Installer) is part of EZpup - is the plan to offer Ezpup as an option? Or incorporate it? Or not use it.

In fact a more fundamental question is will Talking Stick move towards being an add on to Puppy like Ezpup or a complete ISO? You seem to favour the ISO release which means Talking Stick will be limited to one version of Puppy . . .

Quote:
Slackware tab should contain TESTED working slackware module.


Do we have any?

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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Thu 11 Oct 2007, 04:04    Post subject: Plan  

Quote:
Most users are not concerned whether software comes via slackware, sfs, .pet or Debian
Does it download. Does it work. At the moment I have used sfs because it is easy to implement


Yes, exactly right! I was forgetting Smile

I have contacted Warren (whodo) who is the maintainer of EZpup with a view to coding up an .sfs (as opposed to a .PET module based on EZpup containing many aesthetic and usability enhancements for faster computers able to handle them. Im not sure that MU's PSI installer is going to make it into the final list as it requires some dependencies that may take the final puppy over the limit in terms of size. I would love to see it as part of, if not the base TS, at least through the ezpup module.

Perhaps you should contact Warren about his plans, and for that matter jb4x4 who is doing a xfce module. There are currently no one responsible for the graphics/web/developer modules you suggest from your graphics, although people do need to be found.

Puppy 2.15ce of course had icewm by default, and that was fine for our use. Im aware though that 2.15ce did have additional hardware requirements over the standard jwm versions of puppy, and took much longer to load. This was fine for around here because it is still a relatively affluent area (compared to worldwide) and throwaway computers were still fairly fast (mostly PIII 600/128's upwards). Im away this isnt the case in many parts of the world, and I would like the community edition to be workable on P1's and PII's (which in my opinion requires jwm, not icewm).

Puppy 3.3ce as I understand it, will be a distinct release rather than an add on. CE releases have always offered more stability and useability (by Barrys own admission on his statement) than the base puppy releases. Users have asked for more testing and coherency and CE releases are and excellent way to do this.

As for Slackware modules, that side is a bit new to me, I heard its easy to make .sfs files from them.

Just a thought, I notice that on the 3.00 series menu, there is an entry which say "change window manager" which is empty by default, perhaps in the final release a "add new WM's...." entry could at least show here.

Finally, just a quick ask, would you change the prefix of the thread name to "TS3.3ce - ", and the name to something instantly recognizable (people might think that this thread is about talking stick *being* scruffy, which it certainly wont be!!!)

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Lobster
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PostPosted: Thu 18 Oct 2007, 07:25    Post subject: Open Office in 3 steps  

Quote:
(people might think that this thread is about talking stick *being* scruffy, which it certainly wont be!!!)


OK Smile



The enclosed is the proposed part of the sfs downloader and installer part of the program

It basically downloads (a test file in this case) openoffice.sfs (the location is kept in a separate text file)
It places this in /mnt/home/
then it calls up the Puppy bootmanager
and then lets you reboot

It may seem no big deal for people to download and move sfs to the required directory
For some it is Smile

Open Office in 3 steps

Code:
#!/bin/sh
# downloads from the location in openoffice.txt the Open Office sfs using wget to mnt/home/

 OOSFS="
 <wtitle>OpenOffice Install Wizard</wtitle>
 <vbox>
  <frame Easy as 1 2 3>
  <text><label>Do them in order. DOWNLOAD, SELECT and REBOOT</label></text>
 </frame>
  <hbox>
     <text>
    <label>1. DOWNLOAD OpenOffice sfs</label>
   </text>
       <button>
        <input file>/root/puppy-reference/mini-icons/mini-lower.xpm</input>
           <action>rxvt -bg orange --geometry 60x10 -e wget -c -i /root/photon5/scripts/openoffice.txt --directory-prefix=/mnt/home/ &</action>
       </button>
  </hbox>
  <hbox>   
   <text> 
       <label>2. SELECT to boot OpenOffice</label>
     
   </text>
       <button>
        <input file>/root/puppy-reference/mini-icons/mini.checkmark.xpm</input>
            <action>sh /usr/sbin/bootmanager extrasfs &</action>
       </button>
        </hbox>
  <hbox>
        <text> 
           <label>3. REBOOT computer</label>
        </text>
       <button>
        <input file>/root/puppy-reference/mini-icons/mini.exit.xpm</input>
           <action>exec /usr/X11R7/bin/wmreboot</action>
       </button>
 </hbox>

     <hbox>
   <text>
    <label>Geek Info</label>
   </text>
   <button>
       <input file>/root/photon5/icons/info.xpm</input>
        <action>defaulthtmlviewer file:///root/photon5/html/openofficegeekinfo.html &</action>
   </button>
</hbox> 
       <hbox>
   <button cancel></button>
 </hbox>
 </vbox>
"

 echo "$OOSFS" | gtkdialog2 --stdin



Required from community:


    Code comments/improvements - this is a prototype - the idea is that Open Office can be downloaded separately (as can other sfs)
    A secure and maintained sfs directory (we can include the developer sfs - when available, graphics packages etc Any new ones?)
    Talking stick icons, artwork
    An openofice.html (the enclosed is just a test) is required
    More will be required for other sfs


Any help appreciated
ootest.tar.gz
Description  3 files
gz

 Download 
Filename  ootest.tar.gz 
Filesize  1.08 KB 
Downloaded  560 Time(s) 

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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Thu 18 Oct 2007, 13:32    Post subject: Nice work  

Nice work lobster, certainly not scruffy at all!!! Im not at home now so I cant test it. Im thinking perhaps in the menu's on 3.03ce we can have program entries to openoffice documents, these could open your downloader automatically. Also we could have a script whereby if a user clicked on a .odf or other openoffice file this script would launch as well?
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cb88


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Thu 18 Oct 2007, 14:57    Post subject:  

there should be and an sfs installer all it does is detect your installation type and do the apropriate action when ANY sfs is selected... maybe it should install .mo files too...i have not be able to use .mo files without having to reboot after mounting a couple of them though...

I don't think the sfs list should be precoded into the gui it can just fetch the info from the server.... the code for the installer could be just a gui fetcher basically say a year or two down the road the list will still be up to date because the entire gui is downloaded from the site.... if not connected to the net then offer links to the setup and to pupdial and the network wizard

however the sfs installer gui should be on the livecd.

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Lobster
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PostPosted: Thu 18 Oct 2007, 19:28    Post subject:  

cb88 wrote:

however the sfs installer gui should be on the livecd.


this is the complete Scruffy prototype 2.5 MB
it will install into a directory called 'photon5'

http://www.puppylinux.ca/lobster/scruffy0.2.tar.gz

Community help required

    Economoney should provide some text to add to the Lobster message and it should be changed to Community message
    Robert - just provide text and photo/avatar
    other contributors including cb88 should do the same

    Help required with Jpg images for screen directory

    HTML - add to and improved - html directory - don't bother optimising
    HTML yet - some people may use komposer, NVU etc to create code

    script improved - correct links for example - go for it and send here Smile

    icons - better set available? - look in icons directory


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headfound


Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 346
Location: England

PostPosted: Fri 19 Oct 2007, 17:10    Post subject:  

Wow Lobster, i like how your 'Scruffy' dialogs work, much more elegant than the thing I bashed together for Gamepup.
One thing I find a little annoying though is that if you click the info box, a new html window pops up each time. In the GPup menu, i had an info window as part of the gtk dialog box, so each info button would display in the window.
Is it possible to pop open a gtk window alongside the 'talking stick wizard' when you click an info button as opposed to blocking it with the browser?
I think you'd have to use absolute values for window placement though which means it would open in a different place depending on screen resolution!

Sorry enough babble! I like what you've done and your 'Vision demo' gave me the fright of my life Smile

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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Sat 20 Oct 2007, 05:27    Post subject: Like the way  

Lobster I like the way this is going. Users dont know about files and locations (many of them dont even know about directory "hierarchies", especially in linux). The "my document"isation of windows has unfortunately meant this basic knowledge is lost on a great many people.

Im assuming this is the screen that pops up when the users click on any of the start menu links to openoffice?

Im thinking, for useability, perhaps a single screen, with a message along the lines of....

Title: "Puppy Openoffice installer"

Text:

"Openoffice is an office suite with features similar to and in many cases better than Microsoft office, and can read and write most microsoft office formats. Its not included with puppy linux because its so big (you already have gNumeric and abiword). Its very easy to add it if you need the extra office features."

"Click on [OK] to download, install, and launch openoffice 2.3 automatically, or press cancel to continue using puppy without openoffice. It does take some time to install (click here for an estimate of how long). You will need to restart the computer after the installation is complete.

[Geek Info]

Upon cancel, the box disappears (program ends). On ok, another box appears with the text

"Openoffice is now downloading, you can see the download progress in the orange box (this is called "wget" and its often used in linux for downloading large programs). Please wait."

in the background wget launches (with a progressbar) and downloads the .sfs to /mnt/home.

When the download competes, another screen/window appears

Title - "Installation complete"

Text - "Openoffice is now installed, but you need to restart the computer before you can use it. You can either restart now, or continue using puppy linux (openoffice will be there next time you restart you computer).

Two buttons at the bottom of this screen.

[Restart Now] - Restart your computer to start using openoffice.

[Restart Later] - Continue using puppy.

Note: If you are in the middle of something, you should click "restart later" and save your work before restarting your computer normally.

I think just the standard openoffice logo would be fine for a graphic/icon.

Hope this is all clear.

Many thanks for this Lobster.

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richard.a


Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 510
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Sat 20 Oct 2007, 08:02    Post subject: Re: Hi there  

ecomoney wrote:
Hello Lobster
---snip---
I particularly like the "geek info" section. One of linuxes great strengths is that you can get "under the hood" when needed. Linux still has a bit of a "geek" image (which is getting cooler, anyone heard of "Geek Chic"?). I think to save space for the main function of the program, this should be a separate button that pops up a new window rather than in a frame ( [Geek info...] ).

I think it was Lobster who made that observation about my early development of cascading JWM menus in the days of approx v2.10

Geek information is always useful to be accessible imho. But not to be there to confuse the average user.

I've also added such in one spot on the thing I'm currently deeply immersed in, unless in a moment of dumbness I've removed it.

Lobster, you are a tireless worker and really to be commended mate Smile

Richard

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