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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Hardware » Networking » Wireless
Wireless 1390 WLAN (Dell D620 laptop)
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tempestuous

Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 5283
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu 01 Nov 2007, 00:40    Post subject:  

tlcstat,
It's great that you have a solution, and are prepared to share with others, but let's stand back and look at the big picture.

1. The most straightforward way to configure wifi is with manual commands. I have provided comprehensive instructions for this process here (it's the first listed sticky topic in the HOWTO section) -
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=22469


2. Many users are too scared/reluctant/impatient to use manual commands, and insist on using a gui setup wizard. Various contributors have helped put together the Puppy Network Wizard, which runs the very same commands in the background. A major shortcoming of wizards is that if/when they fail, you have no idea of what went wrong. This is the strength of the commandline: you can identify when a command fails.
WAG is a very early attempt at a wizard, which has many shortcomings. rarsa updated WAG to accommodate multiple wifi drivers, plus WPA support, at which point it became known as the "Network Wizard". Then Dougal improved the Wizard further. Then Barry modified it further again.
Under Puppy 3.x especially, the Wizard has been failing in quite a few instances, but we have not had enough clear feedback to identify the problem(s).
Personally, I suspect that Puppy 3.x has some underlying problems with the way that modules are loaded.

So I'm just letting everyone know that your solution is not new or different, it's a combination of manual commands and exisiting wizards.
The commands that you explained are exactly the same as I outlined in my HOWTO, except that yours stop short of obtaining an IP address, at which point you suggest going back to a wizard (and an outdated wizard, at that).

My concern is that there are appearing various wifi "solutions" on the forum which must be extremely confusing to new users.
It's worth noting that whatever gui may be in use, there is only ONE basic set of commands that will configure WEP-encrypted wifi connections, and only ONE basic set of commands that will configure WPA/WPA2-encrypted wifi connections.
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tlcstat

Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 82
Location: SW Virginia mountains

PostPosted: Thu 01 Nov 2007, 09:23    Post subject: Solution and Wag
Subject description: no problem
 

Greetigs,
Thanks for the feed back Tempestous. Actually, Wag and the other wizards have nothing to do with the solution. My WIFI starts up just fine, every time and I do it with command line instructions run from a script file that I created. That I created using information garnered from posts put up by "you" and also others across the internet. I also downloaded a manual on Linux scripting to do the job.
However, I'm not new to this. I have been working at the command prompt since DOS 2.1 and was writing Menu Systems in DR DOS batch language back in the 80s and writting accounting automation in Lotus Macro language since the 90s.
I agree that people using Linux need to learn to use the console. They also need to live their life. The computer should be their slave not the reverse. Linux is only installed on 1% of the computer market and lack of WIFI support is one of the reasons. I can see that the Linux community has been working hard trying to get this fixed. The Fwcutter is a example of that. But consider this. When you start your computer in Linux thie boot manager starts up the kernel, the display, the drives, the keyboard, the mouse, any USB devices, it loads the PCMCIA bridge and everything plugged into it (if it can), it setup printers and scanners (I suppose, haven't got there yet). But it doesn't startup the WIFI. This fact will be unacceptable to a former Windows user, which is what the new users are for the most part.
In solving this problem I have seen that the boot scripts run too fast to accomodate the wait states that WIFI requires for DHCP. In other words the boot process just runs right past it. That fact doesn't mean that it shouldn't work at boot. The process is there to startup the card, but because of Linux's speedy boot it can't get a job "that slow" finished. The solution is to run the wifi script at the end of the boot with the required wait states. The card will then startup and get DHCP and that is exactly what I have done. The script can be run from the console with a bash command or put in the startup folder and run automatically. That is the users choice. I hear a lot of stuff on the forums about the use of Ndiswrapper being a lazy solution. Not so! Ndiswrapper takes just as long to implement as a native driver. It also doesn't work at boot time for the same reasons I have already stated. In other words, The WIFI won't start up with the fwcutter driver "most of the time' and it also won't startup with Ndiswrapper. Lazyness has nothing to do with it. Both are difficult, else the problem would have been fix by now. The attitude that it "shouldn't" be fixed is the reason it "hasn't" been fixed. I am a new Linux user and I found a solution in four days. Some will want to use it and the rest can use the command line everytime their computer boots. I have other things to do, like writing a script that will automate logging into roaming WIFI (stay tuned). Hey, I think I'm up to this, but if I wasn't retired I would go back to WindowsXP. Anyway thank you Tempestous for all your helpful posts and also the rest thats been available. I know you have a lot of time invested in this Linux project. I'm just not the kind of person to accept a problem just because the solution is difficult. Computers were created to help us "get the job done", not to spend all our time at the prompt "getting the computer to work". I still struggling over these instructions! That is my downfall. Fixing the computer is easy. Been doing that for a long time. Writting instructions isn't my strong suit, but I will get it done.
Main objective is to compile this into a self installer. But, first thing first.
Thanks
tlcstat
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tlcstat

Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 82
Location: SW Virginia mountains

PostPosted: Thu 01 Nov 2007, 09:34    Post subject: Not So, be patient
Subject description: wait til you see it work
 

Greetings,
Just one more thing.
quote from post..
"My concern is that there are appearing various wifi "solutions" on the forum which must be extremely confusing to new users"

Actually, I "am" a new user.

Quote from post...
"'So I'm just letting everyone know that your solution is not new or different, it's a combination of manual commands and exisiting wizards'"

Don't let everyone know what it is when you haven't seen it. Its not a combination of anything. Getting past the denial is the hard part. The rest isn't easy but it can be done!

Thanks
tlcstat
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tempestuous

Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 5283
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu 01 Nov 2007, 11:15    Post subject:  

Your 7th post in this thread is written as a wifi connection howto, quite explicitly -
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=150101#150101
by literal definition, that's a solution (for wifi connectivity) even though you may have some other solution ultimately in mind.

My comments were offered in good faith to avoid the confusion I have seen on the forum before.

So in case my central point was missed in all of this, let me rephrase: the information contained in tlcstat's 7th post (I deliberately avoided the word solution) is a combination of manual commands and existing wizards.
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tlcstat

Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 82
Location: SW Virginia mountains

PostPosted: Thu 01 Nov 2007, 12:03    Post subject: Regarding wifi working post
Subject description: Post 7
 

Greetings,
Actually, I made it clear from my first post that I was brand new to Linux. My post was just to let any one concerned know that I had actually got this 1390 card working in the first place with the native driver, and how I did it. I never thought it was a solution. My concern from the beginning was the orginal post that the card would not start upon reboot. Later I found that anything that worked with the native driver (with the 1390 express card) was buggy. It would work fine a couple of times and next time the card would be gone completely.
I decided that the bcm43xx driver had to be abandoned and I went back to the ndiswrapper since the bcmwl5 drivers work properly. This gave me a dependable working card but still no dhcp at boot. With the boot script that I have written the cards loads at every boot with out utilities or console commands and has been doing so for a couple of days. I switch back to WindowsXP several times a day, and the card always comes back on ;reboot. This will fix the original problem that brought me to this post. Thing is, as a new linux user I had no way of knowing that the fwcutter file for this card wouldn't work right. When I got it going I thought I was "done". So what you see is just a newbie struggling with a very good but difficult operating system. I can see now that Linux is very much today what MSDOS was back in the old days. A operating system that is very much in control of the user and thus appeals to the techie types (which I am). Only difference is that MSDOS was crap and Linux is actually a very fast and robust operating system. I just don't want anyone to think that the solution I have has anything to do with the post that you reference.
Remember I've only been at this for 4 days so be patient. All of your post have been helpful and I thank you for that.
Thanks
tlcstat
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