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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge » Multi-session live-CD/DVD
Multisession DVD
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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GuesT ed_Dog
Guest


PostPosted: Sat 22 Oct 2005, 01:09    Post_subject: Oct 20 iso  

You are correct about the use of W/R-DVDs tried it with DVD-R added pups, configured the way I like it, rebooted DVD, setting reappeared ok. deleted file, and added large package (firefox) rebooted, second settings (firefox icon on rox, file gone) everything perfect, you the man!!! Razz Razz
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11164
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Sat 22 Oct 2005, 01:28    Post_subject:  

BarryK wrote:
"...you guys are using DVD-RW or DVD+RW right?
I think someone posted that a DVD-R, Windows can see all the sessions?

For DVD-RW/+RW, it may depend on whether the sessions are saved in
sequential mode or overwrite mode.

I'm using DVD+RW. I wanted to use a reusable DVD for initial testing and that's the reusable DVD I had. I haven't tried multisession Puppy on a DVD-R yet. I figure if DVD+RW works, probably any DVD will work.

If Windows can't open the files on a multisession Puppy DVD, why worry if Windows can see anything on the disk?

Would it be difficult to use one of the native Linux filesystems (ext2, ext3, etc.) instead of isofs for multisession DVD? Hmm, I suppose the name "growisofs" gives a clue. Smile

Barry, this is very preliminary: the 20oct05 version may have a problem using the internet. It configured eth1 with auto DHCP okay, but when I open Mozilla it has trouble loading any website -- only succeeded one or two times, and those took a long time. This may be a bad burn to DVD. I'll burn it to a different disk to confirm there is a problem, and if it repeats I'll burn 19oct05 to the same disk to see if the problem goes away.
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Perkins

Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Mon 24 Oct 2005, 20:54    Post_subject:  

The only reason I was thinking packet writing might be useful Flash, is that 512MB thumb drives are usually around $50 apiece. 650-700MB CD-RWs can be had for $.50 apiece. Factoring in the price of the medium, the difference in cost per writable MB is a factor of less than 10. And if you happen to be running programs that do a lot of reading, and only a little writing it's definitely woth it for the fact that the instantaneous price is lower, because even at only 1000 writes, the CD will last a heck of a long time, and you can afford more of them at once.

Anyway, I'll quit interrupting your discussion. Razz
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11164
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Mon 24 Oct 2005, 23:28    Post_subject:  

Perkins wrote:
Anyway, I'll quit interrupting your discussion. Razz

You weren't interrupting me. I was just shooting my mouth off, as usual. Laughing

Actually, you bring up an important subject: the cost per MB of flash memory. At some point it may make more sense economically to use flash memory than multisession DVD or CD.

My city library has a lot of audio books on CD. These aren't very rugged and seem to me to be a bad investment. It has occurred to me that if the licencing could be arranged, it might be cheaper in the long run for the library to buy audio books as mp3s, which are loaded onto special flash mp3 players on demand, to loan to library patrons. These mp3 players would be made so that their flash memory could only be read by the internal mp3 player. In other words, the memory would appear to an external computer to be Write-Only Memory, or WOM. Laughing

Edited_time_total
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Perkins

Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Thu 27 Oct 2005, 21:40    Post_subject:  

See, now, that depends. If the audio books spend most of their time on the shelf, then the CDs are probably a better investment. They're less durable, but they're also far cheaper per MB of storage.

For an example where packet writing would be useful, I have a couple large programs that read very large blocks of data and instructions, but only write a few tiny configuration files on occasion. I don't use them very often, so I don't want to spend a lot of money on a flash drive when a $.50 CD will work just as well. Theoretically I could probably trick into storing its config files elsewhere, but that's rather more effort than it would be worth.

Second useful case, there are actually computers out there that don't have USB drives. (I own several. Wink ) Since you have to have a burner to use a Multisession CD anyway... You get the idea.

Now I don't know how large a packet writing module would be, or how hard it would be to include. If it's huge and is a major pain, then don't bother. If it's tiny and easy, then it could be quite a useful thing to have.
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11164
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Fri 28 Oct 2005, 01:02    Post_subject:  

Perkins wrote:
See, now, that depends. If the audio books spend most of their time on the shelf, then the CDs are probably a better investment. They're less durable, but they're also far cheaper per MB of storage.

I realize I wandered off the topic of this forum, but I need to clarify my idea a bit.

The library wouldn't need an mp3 player for each audio book, but would only need enough mp3 players that, when they are all checked out, a patron need not wait any longer for one to be returned than he would wait on average for a book that is checked out to be returned.

The library would have all its mp3 audio books on a hard drive, or some such repository which is accessible only to the library. When a patron wants to listen to an audio book, the library would write only that book to an mp3 player, that the patron would check out for a few weeks. After he returns the mp3 player to the library, whatever audio book the next patron who checks it out wants to listen to would be written to it, effectively erasing the previous book. Again, the mp3 players would be designed so that the contents of their memory could not be read except by the mp3 player.

This scheme would allow the library to serve its patrons with only a few mp3 players, shared by many audio books, rather than an mp3 player for each audio book.
Perkins wrote:
For an example where packet writing would be useful, I have a couple large programs that read very large blocks of data and instructions, but only write a few tiny configuration files on occasion. I don't use them very often, so I don't want to spend a lot of money on a flash drive when a $.50 CD will work just as well. Theoretically I could probably trick into storing its config files elsewhere, but that's rather more effort than it would be worth.

Yes, that's true. Packet writing would be perfect for that. I only meant that packet writing doesn't seem appropriate for multisession Puppy.
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Perkins

Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Fri 28 Oct 2005, 12:37    Post_subject:  

I did understand the idea, and it's not a bad one...

Though if I had to guess, I'd say the library would be rather likely to keep it's internal copies of the books on CD... Razz

I'll agree with your point though, using packet writing for the multisession CD probably wouldn't add much. Might be useful for being able to save large downloads directly to the CD, but that would probably be about it. And one could do that with a different CD anyway...

So the only reason to use packet writing would be if it made the process easier and/or more reliable.
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volentib

Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sat 05 Nov 2005, 21:45    Post_subject: 20Oct Multi-session ISO locks  

I tried the ISO burn using Win apps and growisofs.

TedDog's ISO stops at something like 'USB device 5 not assigned driver...' Works fine on CD-RW

Any ideas?

Using DVD-RW to test the ms dvd ISO..
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11164
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Sat 05 Nov 2005, 23:33    Post_subject:  

Try being a little more verbose please. Explain in more detail what you did and what happened.
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2471
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Sun 06 Nov 2005, 12:43    Post_subject: Ted_Dogs ISO????  

DevilDog or Grubber?

Bugs:
DevilDog, never deletes will use all available memory (like winblows) after a dozen or so reboots. ONLY for DVD
To new to know:
Grubber is just a wrapper around two existing isos, which did you pick? Grafpup or Mean Puppy?

I lay claim to no other ISO Rolling Eyes
My stuff is always experimental in nature. I'm trying to follow up on ideas people request in this forum. The testing stuff is in http://puppy.hted.com and that is just the stuff that did not blow up my computer Razz You want to see weird stuff I have frankenstien puppy based on version 1.02 with stuff from 1.04 & 1.05 usr_more & dev. Way buggy Razz
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volentib

Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sun 06 Nov 2005, 14:39    Post_subject: Exprimental M-S ISO  

Flash wrote:
Try being a little more verbose please. Explain in more detail what you did and what happened.


I'm using a Sony DVD-RW mini. I d/l'd the 1.0.6RC, burned to CD from Windows - boots fine.

From the m-s cd, I d/l'd TedDog's 20Oct ISO, and burned to mini DVD from w/i booted puppy CD. Used the growisofs command he suggested in the forum (via the TkDVD (?) program).

When I try to boot from the newly created DVD, it gets to probing USB and up to, say, device 5 it hangs there. No kernel panic, no device/driver errors - just sits there. The CD pauses for a few seconds during this phase also, but rocks on quickly.

On rear PC ports I have a 4-port hub connected: has a BT adapter, smart card reader, and tht's it. A wireless USB mouse/keyboard too.
The other main interface (front) is empty.

In case it helps: Dell 8300, 1GB RAM, no vfat/ms-dos partitions on HDDs - just NTFS on XP. Like I said, I've never had a problem with the CDs from 1.0.5 on - just trying to use muliti-session DVD-RW.

Should the bootup output be logged some where? Think that might be helpful in diagnosing?
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2471
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Sun 06 Nov 2005, 15:11    Post_subject: USB junkie .... Oct 20th is BK's test iso  

I bet it is a multi-card reader too Laughing If 106rc works for you reburn the mini-RW with that. I ran into a batch of bad memorix mini-RW sadly only could burn twice and there was a inculsion (pocket of air??) bubble early in the disk. Maybe my laser is too hot? Two of the Three just did not cut it.
I booted my windowsXP after a long time (going to harvest a harddrive from it Twisted Evil ) It is still downloading bug fixes. Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad
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volentib

Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sun 06 Nov 2005, 23:52    Post_subject: Re: USB junkie .... Oct 20th is BK's test iso  

Ted Dog wrote:
I bet it is a multi-card reader too Laughing If 106rc works for you reburn the mini-RW with that. I ran into a batch of bad memorix mini-RW sadly only could burn twice and there was a inculsion (pocket of air??) bubble early in the disk. Maybe my laser is too hot? Two of the Three just did not cut it.
I booted my windows XP after a long time (going to harvest a harddrive from it Twisted Evil ) It is still downloading bug fixes. Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad


Nope, no multi-card reader - just 4-port USB Wink

Gonna try the last 2 or 3 CD ISOs and burn your DVD from those. Hopefully, it'll work out.

Once this M-S DVD iamge works for me, I'll have the ultimate boot/recovery/do-every-damned-thing-imaginable disc!
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willhunt


Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 495

PostPosted: Fri 11 Nov 2005, 16:47    Post_subject: ahhhhhhhhhh  

well I grew the 1.06rc several times and each time I get a error
when booting Embarassed

Diskerror 20 ax=42C4 drive EF

I tried to set down the speed to 1 and still the same problems what am I doing wrong I am using P1.05 I grew the iso from the command line

#growisofs speed=4 -Z /mnt/hdd=puppy file

it did not find /dev/scd0 or /dev/hdd
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volentib

Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sat 14 Jan 2006, 03:42    Post_subject: Re: USB junkie .... Oct 20th is BK's test iso  

volentib wrote:
Ted Dog wrote:
I bet it is a multi-card reader too Laughing If 106rc works for you reburn the mini-RW with that. I ran into a batch of bad memorix mini-RW sadly only could burn twice and there was a inculsion (pocket of air??) bubble early in the disk. Maybe my laser is too hot? Two of the Three just did not cut it.
I booted my windows XP after a long time (going to harvest a harddrive from it Twisted Evil ) It is still downloading bug fixes. Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad


Nope, no multi-card reader - just 4-port USB Wink

Gonna try the last 2 or 3 CD ISOs and burn your DVD from those. Hopefully, it'll work out.

Once this M-S DVD iamge works for me, I'll have the ultimate boot/recovery/do-every-damned-thing-imaginable disc!



All,
Just an FYI. Tried same old (Sony & Opto) -rw mini-DVDs with 1.07 - no luck, still hangs on USB probe.
Threw in a regular old -R (and CD) and no probs. All settings/sessions save on reboot and it even remembers I want eth0 DHCP this time.
Got some new Dell D610 laptops s to test at work too. Will post success/problems with USB/MS DVD.
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