NOP 2.17 Available NOW
Xfce delete
cthisbear:
It sounds like you run from liveCD (or USB ?), in which case, as suggested by cb88, thunar moves files to the trash bin for the delete action and so eats up ram / space in the pupsave file, which is the likely source of the slow down. This is especially the case when trying to delete winblows mega files like pagefile.sys which is 400 Mb on my home computer and 2Gb at work !!! Sheesh Im amazed it didn't just crash ! - no that would be the MS crap again .
As it says in the Xfce docs, to permanently delete a file just hold down the shift key when selecting delete from the menu (or better still use the shift and delete keys - its quicker).
Xfce-Thunar was always going to be slower than JWM-Rox or Icewm-Rox. It is a considerably bigger and more complicated desktop, and we are spoiled by how unbelievably fast is standard puppy . But I wanted to give Xfce a try and I for one like its polished and professional nature, and as I stated in the first post, NOP is "for more modern machines" where the speed hit of Xfce is hardly noticeable. Besides, the Icewm approach is pretty well served now by the excellent Ezpup .
Another factor is the LZMA compression. On modern machines this is a bonus, as time is saved loading a smaller file at boot up, but older machines suffer from the extra decompression times . I checked NOP 2.17 on my sons computer, a P3 550 with MX440 graphics card & 256Mb ram and it ran well (better than win98 !), but I would not recommend machines with much lower specs.
As the old adage goes "you cant please everyone", but NOP was made only to please me - if others find a use then great, if not then I wont shed a tear.
It sounds like you are better off using a cut down standard puppy, perhaps with a few extra system repair utilities - in effect a RescuePup. Why dont you make one ?
The great thing about Puppy is that ability to create just what you want.
It sounds like you run from liveCD (or USB ?), in which case, as suggested by cb88, thunar moves files to the trash bin for the delete action and so eats up ram / space in the pupsave file, which is the likely source of the slow down. This is especially the case when trying to delete winblows mega files like pagefile.sys which is 400 Mb on my home computer and 2Gb at work !!! Sheesh Im amazed it didn't just crash ! - no that would be the MS crap again .
As it says in the Xfce docs, to permanently delete a file just hold down the shift key when selecting delete from the menu (or better still use the shift and delete keys - its quicker).
Xfce-Thunar was always going to be slower than JWM-Rox or Icewm-Rox. It is a considerably bigger and more complicated desktop, and we are spoiled by how unbelievably fast is standard puppy . But I wanted to give Xfce a try and I for one like its polished and professional nature, and as I stated in the first post, NOP is "for more modern machines" where the speed hit of Xfce is hardly noticeable. Besides, the Icewm approach is pretty well served now by the excellent Ezpup .
Another factor is the LZMA compression. On modern machines this is a bonus, as time is saved loading a smaller file at boot up, but older machines suffer from the extra decompression times . I checked NOP 2.17 on my sons computer, a P3 550 with MX440 graphics card & 256Mb ram and it ran well (better than win98 !), but I would not recommend machines with much lower specs.
As the old adage goes "you cant please everyone", but NOP was made only to please me - if others find a use then great, if not then I wont shed a tear.
It sounds like you are better off using a cut down standard puppy, perhaps with a few extra system repair utilities - in effect a RescuePup. Why dont you make one ?
The great thing about Puppy is that ability to create just what you want.
Folks using fancy graphics cards and asking for drivers/3D/Beryl/etc. are using the wrong distro!
When I started up NOP this morning, Opera offered an update. Is this something you could incorporate, gray?
This one doesn't shutdown. Shutdown just recycles it. At present I am using 'reboot' and pressing the big red HW button!
When I started up NOP this morning, Opera offered an update. Is this something you could incorporate, gray?
This one doesn't shutdown. Shutdown just recycles it. At present I am using 'reboot' and pressing the big red HW button!
NOP 2.17
Inuyasha : The nvidia 9639 drivers are built-in to NOP 2.17. These drivers support a wide range of nvidia cards (though not the very latest I think). I have tested on MX440, 7600GS and 7900GTX cards.
Sage: I was thinking of updating NOP 2.17 to include the new network wizard and universal installer, so I guess I could throw in Opera 9.22.
Regarding your shutdown problem, does standard puppy 2.17 shut down OK. It works fine for me on every machine I have tried. Try the different acpi cheat codes when booting.
Sage: I was thinking of updating NOP 2.17 to include the new network wizard and universal installer, so I guess I could throw in Opera 9.22.
Regarding your shutdown problem, does standard puppy 2.17 shut down OK. It works fine for me on every machine I have tried. Try the different acpi cheat codes when booting.
Shutdown: yes and no! On VIA chipsets, regular Puppy shuts down and turns off power. On SiS chipsets, it shuts down the OS leaving me at the Power Off prompt. On NOP, pressing the red top-right button and selecting Shut Down recycles back to the working desktop on all chipsets. Yes, I know all about acpi=force, etc but it would be nice to get it right like all other distros - I think, without exception?
Another patch for your next creation?!
Another patch for your next creation?!
2 probs with 2.19NOP
Very nice and very fast distro, no other xfce distro compares to it, however, I cannot use it using pup4DOS http://www.puppylinux.org/user/download ... load_id=48(similar to frugal HD install) or with puppy2 XP installer, all other versions of puppy work well, except 2.17 and 2.17 NOP. I also have shutdown/reboot just cycling back xfce.
Shutdown etc
Puppynop : Unfortunately the Trash, Home and File System icons are locked by Xfce. Only way to change is edit the theme icons or install a new icon theme. The drives icon can be changed easily as it is one I added. Just right click on the icon and select edit launcher. Likewise new icons can be added by right clicking on an icon and selecting desktop & then create launcher.
Regarding shutdown issues I am very puzzled. Every machine i try works OK, and the scripts used are standard puppy 2.17 wmreboot & wmpoeroff.
Sage, could you do me a favour and try a few things?
1) edit /usr/X11R7/bin/wmpoweroff and comment out the 'sleep 1' and 'killall -9' lines & then try to shutdown.
2) (uncomment above lines) increase the sleep value to 2 or 3 seconds & try shutdown.
Cheers
Regarding shutdown issues I am very puzzled. Every machine i try works OK, and the scripts used are standard puppy 2.17 wmreboot & wmpoeroff.
Sage, could you do me a favour and try a few things?
1) edit /usr/X11R7/bin/wmpoweroff and comment out the 'sleep 1' and 'killall -9' lines & then try to shutdown.
2) (uncomment above lines) increase the sleep value to 2 or 3 seconds & try shutdown.
Cheers
Bingo!/2, so to speak.
The first expedient, both items remmed, resulted in the expected answer for my SiS chipset, ie returned to a Power Off prompt. Doubtless this would switch off(actually - standby) on a VIA board.
Your second option failed to effect a shutdown.
Over to you, g.
PS. Hope you haven't gone to sleep down there, yet?
The first expedient, both items remmed, resulted in the expected answer for my SiS chipset, ie returned to a Power Off prompt. Doubtless this would switch off(actually - standby) on a VIA board.
Your second option failed to effect a shutdown.
Over to you, g.
PS. Hope you haven't gone to sleep down there, yet?
strange shutdown/reboot behavior
Did the ff:
"edit /usr/X11R7/bin/wmpoweroff and comment out the 'sleep 1' and 'killall -9' lines & then try to shutdown".
It worked, and was able to save session, sadly though, it worked only twice. I checked usr/X11R7/bin/wmpoweroff with no change i.e. 'sleep 1' and 'killall-9' lines are still uncommented.
As for the desktop icons:
chose no desktop icon settings, chose the nature backround and placed shortcuts at the top taskbar instead with the icons I prefer (from grafpup, pizzapup, etc.) Sorry, but I removed all the original shortcuts and enlarged the taskbar a bit.
Very nice indeed, but I am thinking if it is more practical, at least for the meantime, to have puppy 2.16 with xfce/thunar or icewm/thunar.
"edit /usr/X11R7/bin/wmpoweroff and comment out the 'sleep 1' and 'killall -9' lines & then try to shutdown".
It worked, and was able to save session, sadly though, it worked only twice. I checked usr/X11R7/bin/wmpoweroff with no change i.e. 'sleep 1' and 'killall-9' lines are still uncommented.
As for the desktop icons:
chose no desktop icon settings, chose the nature backround and placed shortcuts at the top taskbar instead with the icons I prefer (from grafpup, pizzapup, etc.) Sorry, but I removed all the original shortcuts and enlarged the taskbar a bit.
Very nice indeed, but I am thinking if it is more practical, at least for the meantime, to have puppy 2.16 with xfce/thunar or icewm/thunar.
Poweroff with XORG
That was using XVESA, but with XORG it proceeds to verbose mode to choose 'poweroff' or 'reboot' and shuts down cleanly saving the session.
Using XVESA, clicking 'run application' then 'poweroff', Xserver fails to restart, the computer shuts down but the session is not saved.
Using XVESA, clicking 'run application' then 'poweroff', Xserver fails to restart, the computer shuts down but the session is not saved.
NOP
Sage: Sorry mate , I dont get much time on the computer during the week, what with running the kids to all their activities. 'Er indoors resents me spending time on on the computer too - she calls it 'the one eyed bitch"
Anyway if I understand correctly with the kill -9 line commented out, NOP behaves like standard 2.17 ? When it gets to the prompt what does more /tmp/wmexitmode.txt give you ? I saw your comment regarding Puppy 1.08 shutting down correctly - I think I will download it and see what the differences are.
I was hoping to add the patches from 2.17 to 2.17.1 and then push out an updated version of NOP, but the 'updates' are too complex. Release of 2.17 was a bit rushed and too , err , experimental ? I think for Puppy 2.18 I wont produce a NOP version until the .1 version is out
Anyway if I understand correctly with the kill -9 line commented out, NOP behaves like standard 2.17 ? When it gets to the prompt what does more /tmp/wmexitmode.txt give you ? I saw your comment regarding Puppy 1.08 shutting down correctly - I think I will download it and see what the differences are.
I was hoping to add the patches from 2.17 to 2.17.1 and then push out an updated version of NOP, but the 'updates' are too complex. Release of 2.17 was a bit rushed and too , err , experimental ? I think for Puppy 2.18 I wont produce a NOP version until the .1 version is out
Ooooo! Families, wives, kids - you must be a mere slip of a lad!
There seems to an issue between XVESA and XOrg, too. I usually use the former. I really can't understand the kiddies using XOrg and wanting to load 3D drivers with Puppy when they can run SuSE/F7 on a power machine!
Notwithstanding, I am finding Wolvix a very nice piece of work despite a few rough edges. It is very fast and even opens the CD tray! Installer & GRUB needs more work, but at least they are honest enough to warn about it first. I think it may be a Euro distro? - at least, the default k/b seems to be GB. It is a lot bigger than Puppy, though.
Don't quite understand what you want me to do? Should I do the 'sleep' & 'kill' edits first?When it gets to the prompt what does more /tmp/wmexitmode.txt give you ?
There seems to an issue between XVESA and XOrg, too. I usually use the former. I really can't understand the kiddies using XOrg and wanting to load 3D drivers with Puppy when they can run SuSE/F7 on a power machine!
Notwithstanding, I am finding Wolvix a very nice piece of work despite a few rough edges. It is very fast and even opens the CD tray! Installer & GRUB needs more work, but at least they are honest enough to warn about it first. I think it may be a Euro distro? - at least, the default k/b seems to be GB. It is a lot bigger than Puppy, though.
NOP
Not a 'slip of a lad' - more middle aged.
Yes comment out the sleep & kill lines and try shutdown. At the prompt where I presume it stopped enter the more /tmp... line. I want to see if the wmpoweroff line is writing to that file correctly. I have just had a look at puppy 1.08 and the scripts dont seem that different, but guess what? 1.08 doesnt shut down on my PC !!
I run Xorg wiv 3D drivers. I run from a USB stick and have apps that I use in my work that need 3D acceleration. What I dont understand is this obsession with Beryl etc - that is eye candy of no use.
Yes I have had a look at Wolvix. It is shaping up into a nice distro, but for USB pendrive use nothing can touch Puppy.
Yes comment out the sleep & kill lines and try shutdown. At the prompt where I presume it stopped enter the more /tmp... line. I want to see if the wmpoweroff line is writing to that file correctly. I have just had a look at puppy 1.08 and the scripts dont seem that different, but guess what? 1.08 doesnt shut down on my PC !!
I run Xorg wiv 3D drivers. I run from a USB stick and have apps that I use in my work that need 3D acceleration. What I dont understand is this obsession with Beryl etc - that is eye candy of no use.
Yes I have had a look at Wolvix. It is shaping up into a nice distro, but for USB pendrive use nothing can touch Puppy.
I can't do that, of course. When I rem those items and shutdown, I get to 'Power down'. The only thing I can do then is either press the OFF or RESET buttons! If I just edit the file, drop out of the session then re-enter WM and look for that file in /tmp - there is none!
There are two other irritations: the mouse default is set to double click, whereas most Linux distros default to single click.
When I forget to tangle with the k/b settings, I have to cut and paste the # sign as I can never remember where it is on foreign k/b s. NOP doesn't offer k/b selection at booting.
Tell me what else you want me to try.
Incidentally, running 'poweroff' at the console, as suggested by puppynop above, also recycles the desktop. That, definitely, is not supposed to happen!
There are two other irritations: the mouse default is set to double click, whereas most Linux distros default to single click.
When I forget to tangle with the k/b settings, I have to cut and paste the # sign as I can never remember where it is on foreign k/b s. NOP doesn't offer k/b selection at booting.
Tell me what else you want me to try.
Incidentally, running 'poweroff' at the console, as suggested by puppynop above, also recycles the desktop. That, definitely, is not supposed to happen!
Last edited by Sage on Fri 03 Aug 2007, 17:24, edited 1 time in total.
Re: NOP
ah, wise words for any distro. I usually find it pays to resist the urge to immediately download & burn the hot new .0 release and wait till a .1 release sneaks out a week or two later.gray wrote:Release of 2.17 was a bit rushed and too , err , experimental ? I think for Puppy 2.18 I wont produce a NOP version until the .1 version is out
Just to be clear, does this mean there won't be an upgrade of the existing NOP 2.17? So I might as well go ahead & download the existing ISO to try out the new NOP?I was hoping to add the patches from 2.17 to 2.17.1 and then push out an updated version of NOP, but the 'updates' are too complex.
NOP update
klu9 : Yes I will put out an update for NOP, but I wont be starting from scratch with 2.17.1. So it will be 2.17 with some of the updates but not to a full .1 standard. I will include opera 2.22 also. Could be a day or too though.
Sage: I think I misunderstood where you were at in the shutdown. If you get to the message saying switch off your computer then I think the rest is an acpi thing.
Sage: I think I misunderstood where you were at in the shutdown. If you get to the message saying switch off your computer then I think the rest is an acpi thing.