Puppy or Damn Small Linux(DSL)?

Booting, installing, newbie
Message
Author
disciple
Posts: 6984
Joined: Sun 21 May 2006, 01:46
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

#31 Post by disciple »

I think you'll find if you can bring yourself to install on the hard drive sooner that it is faster, particularly booting (although I'm not completely certain - I don't use a computer that slow). The advantage with Puppy is that he doesn't need his own partition, he just copies 3 or four files to any old partition and runs from them just like from the live cd.

WOW you must be incredibly patient using Mepis et al. on that machine. You deserve a prize.

stevesr0
Posts: 169
Joined: Sun 24 Jun 2007, 17:25

#32 Post by stevesr0 »

Two reasons for dwadling:

(1) When I bought the laptop, I had it set up to dual boot windows 98 and linux, using LILO as a boot manager. I am also digesting the best way of eliminating the old distribution (Caldera <g>), either without modifying the current partition scheme or possibly deleting all partitions and making the 6 gig hard drive (wow, so big) completely devoted to Linux.

(2) I want to make everything work "OK" with the Live CD before deciding to install that particular distribution, including any customization, I would want.

Steve

disciple
Posts: 6984
Joined: Sun 21 May 2006, 01:46
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

#33 Post by disciple »

Yes, but like I say, Puppy doesn't need his own partition - in fact it is unusual for people to do a conventional installation of Puppy in his own partition. Most people just do a frugal install, and then if you want to backup all your files and everything you can just make a copy of your pup001 file, and if you want to upgrade Puppy then you just replace the 3 or 4 files he runs from with the new ones, and if you want to get rid of Puppy you just delete the files from inside windows or whatever operating system you choose.

Have fun anyway :)

User avatar
silverojo
Posts: 155
Joined: Sun 30 Jul 2006, 05:40

#34 Post by silverojo »

I tried DSL and hated it. Puppy is a lot more user-friendly, with a more graphical interface. DSL didn't have half the programs I wanted, and was generally a pain in the neck to use.

Plus...there's no option to change the too-low refresh settings on DSL, so the screen flickers horribly. Bad news for people with any sort of light-sensitivity problems (like me), or people who use the PC for long periods of time, because it really causes eyestrain fast.

Finally, the DSL help forum isn't much help. When I tried asking questions there, the people were snarky and unwilling to help newbies out. This forum seems a lot nicer to me.

That's my 2¢ worth, anyway. :)

jonyo

#35 Post by jonyo »

I found DSL much more difficult overall than pup. Still haven't figured out the wifi.

stevesr0
Posts: 169
Joined: Sun 24 Jun 2007, 17:25

#36 Post by stevesr0 »

Keep in mind that I commented on my experience to date comparing Live CDs in general and a Puppy live CD with a DSL live CD. As I wrote,

"At this point, DSL is working better on this old laptop than Puppy in the following ways:
(1) Boot up time is much faster (on almost all live CD distributions other than DSL, I experience a 4 and a half minute pause while the program searches for the linux distribution on the CD).
(2) When the system is up, I can make sound workable in DSL simply by a modprobe command; in Puppy, modprobe gives me an error message and I have to go through the ALSA wizard configuration.
(3) When I try to play an internet radio station, with Puppy (Gxine) the sound cuts off frequently and seems sensitive to use of other windows, while it is continuous in DSL (XMMS) and not affected by activities in other windows.
(4) Since the laptop case is partially broken and I need to keep it taped to a surround, I am no longer trying to use my wi-fi cards on this machine, but rather just a Netgear NIC. With DSL, the connection was automatic, while I had to tell Puppy to use a tulip driver.

Overall, both of these distributions are good performers on this laptop, compared to most other live CDs which continually need to access the CD."

I was using the live CDs "as is", partly to gauge the likely ease of hard drive install and partly because I am not experienced at installing new software.

I can't disagree with your belief that there is more feedback on these fora (?forums) than on the DSL ones. If you folks tell me how to resolve these questions while using the live CDs, I would be delighted to continue my comparison of them and report back with an update.

Parenthetically, one other thing seems to work better on my machine with DSL is management of moving windows. In Puppy, there are a lot more duplicated windows than with DSL. Perhaps part of this is due to DSL putting more on the hard drive (or leaving more on the CD) than Puppy with more resources available in RAM to handle movement of windows?

Thanks for comments and any help with this.

Steve

kirk
Posts: 1553
Joined: Fri 11 Nov 2005, 19:04
Location: florida

#37 Post by kirk »

stevesr0, Here's my wild guesses:
(1) Boot up time is much faster
Normally most of the boot time (when running from CD) is copying the file system to ram. DSL is smaller so it has less to copy. On a harddrive install it's so fast it doesn't matter.


(2) When the system is up, I can make sound workable in DSL simply by a modprobe command; in Puppy, modprobe gives me an error message and I have to go through the ALSA wizard configuration.
I'm assuming your using 2.16. I'm surprised it didn't set-up automaticly. Does for most. Anyway, Puppy and DSL use different kernels and so, also have different modules. If you modprobed in a module in DSL it may have a different name in Puppy.
(3) When I try to play an internet radio station...
Might be related to problem number 2.
(4) Since the laptop case is partially broken and I need to keep it taped to a surround, I am no longer trying to use my wi-fi cards on this machine, but rather just a Netgear NIC. With DSL, the connection was automatic, while I had to tell Puppy to use a tulip driver.
Looks like puppy doesn't have your vendor and device IDs.
In Puppy, there are a lot more duplicated windows than with DSL. Perhaps part of this is due to DSL putting more on the hard drive (or leaving more on the CD) than Puppy with more resources available in RAM to handle movement of windows?
Don't really understand that one.

Sorry, not much help.

Out of the box , I'm sure some machines will run better (hardware detection wize) with DSL and others with Puppy. But I think puppy will probably due better on average due to it's larger collection of drivers and even better in the future due to DSL staying with the 2.4 kernel.

User avatar
alienjeff
Posts: 2265
Joined: Sat 08 Jul 2006, 20:19
Location: Winsted, CT - USA

#38 Post by alienjeff »

I've tried both and stuck with Puppy. It feels more complete and better thought out, IMO.

A necessary note: I frequently lurk in #damnsmalllinux and find the channel activity pales in comparison to both of "our" channels, #puppylinux and ##puppylinux. Another observation from this lurking is frequent bitching from DSL noobs about not being able to post to their forum until getting approved or whatever. One poor soul had been waiting over two weeks before he was finally able to post. That doesn't speak well for the distro.

<cheap_shot>Two weeks is a quarter of a release cycle for Puppy, ffs</cheap_shot>

If one is looking for an active and spirited community, Puppy is the one.

-aj
[size=84][i]hangout:[/i] ##b0rked on irc.freenode.net
[i]diversion:[/i] [url]http://alienjeff.net[/url] - visit The Fringe
[i]quote:[/i] "The foundation of authority is based upon the consent of the people." - Thomas Hooker[/size]

raffy
Posts: 4798
Joined: Wed 25 May 2005, 12:20
Location: Manila

best bet = 1.0x Puppy

#39 Post by raffy »

Stevesr0, your best bet for comparing with DSL is Puppy 1.07 (and onwards to 1.08 and 1.09CE) (1.09CE uses Firefox). These versions immediately make pup001 (save file) to your hard disk, and you can copy the usr_cram.fs from CD to hard disk to speed up the boot. Note that as you move up the versions, the pup001 is upgraded.*

To avoid using pup001 at boot-time, press the corresponding number (choose the "do not use save file").

Try it and enjoy. :)

--------------------------------------------------
* Puppy 2+ uses pup_save.?fs and does not make this save file automatically.
Puppy user since Oct 2004. Want FreeOffice? [url=http://puppylinux.info/topic/freeoffice-2012-sfs]Get the sfs (English only)[/url].

disciple
Posts: 6984
Joined: Sun 21 May 2006, 01:46
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

#40 Post by disciple »

raffy, if all his hardware is working, what would be the point of trying Puppy 1.x? Isn't 2.x supposed to be faster? Are there still advantages to the 1 series?

The problem with the internet radio sounds to me like your processor just isn't fast enough, and Puppy needs a bit more than DSL. I guess it could be RAM or something to do with the internet connection or something though. I'd be interested to know if XMMS in Puppy is any better than gxine.

Wolf Pup
Posts: 637
Joined: Fri 28 Apr 2006, 01:37

#41 Post by Wolf Pup »

Mean-pup fits in 50MB business card like DSL, http://www.my-plan.org/storage/puppyLinux/
[img]http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/8595/ubd6467dp2.png[/img]
[url=http://www.tinyurl.com/54tu74]Visit The Repository[/url] - Helpful and hard-to-find treats for Puppy 3.
[url=http://www.tinyurl.com/c5a68f]Click Here for Puppy Support Chat, + Helpful Links.[/url]

tempestuous
Posts: 5464
Joined: Fri 10 Jun 2005, 05:12
Location: Australia

#42 Post by tempestuous »

stevesr0 wrote:When I try to play an internet radio station, with Puppy (Gxine) the sound cuts off frequently and seems sensitive to use of other windows, while it is continuous in DSL (XMMS) and not affected by activities in other windows.
Yes, I suspect that gxine is a more CPU-intensive application than XMMS.
So I suggest you just install XMMS -

http://dotpups.de/dotpups/Multimedia/xm ... by-Dougal/

User avatar
silverojo
Posts: 155
Joined: Sun 30 Jul 2006, 05:40

#43 Post by silverojo »

alienjeff wrote:A necessary note: I frequently lurk in #damnsmalllinux and find the channel activity pales in comparison to both of "our" channels, #puppylinux and ##puppylinux.
Whoa, I'll have to pay a visit to those channels one of these days when I have some time on my hands. I'm sure it'd be a lot of fun. :)
alienjeff wrote:Another observation from this lurking is frequent bitching from DSL noobs about not being able to post to their forum until getting approved or whatever.
And it gets better...when you do get approved to post, the regulars like to make smart-alecky remarks to newbies, instead of actually helping them. Reminds me of Mr. Garrison in South Park, commenting after a third-grader gave the wrong answer: "Now let's hear from somebody who isn't a complete retard."

While it's funny on TV, it's not funny in real life, and does nothing to help increase the DSL community. :?

I find this forum to be a lot more friendly, and I look forward to the time when I know enough to start answering questions, instead of just asking them!

stevesr0
Posts: 169
Joined: Sun 24 Jun 2007, 17:25

re: try XMMS instead of gxine

#44 Post by stevesr0 »

Thanks for suggestion.

I haven't installed any apps to puppy; just read how to do it.

I will try XMMS and report back.

I also just recently realized that launching programs from command line is liable to either work better or at least give useful information. I recall getting gxine to work in puppy only via command line after launch from icon failed.

(That didn't give me any error messages.)

Steve

stevesr0
Posts: 169
Joined: Sun 24 Jun 2007, 17:25

internet radio on puppy re: install xmms problem

#45 Post by stevesr0 »

I installed the base pup for xmms v.1.2.10 by Dougal at the url you (Tempestuous) indicated. However, it didn't install into /usr/local but directly under /.

I get errors when trying to lauch either xmms or gxine from a command line (for xmms, it complains about missing sound files and for gxine about no demuxer).

I noted the advice to disable madplay abd libmmsmcd.so but I couldn't find this choice under options, preferences for xmms.

I tried to kill madplay but in response it says no process killed and I am not sure that madplay is loaded/installed.

Do I need to install additional modules? Do I need to move xmms to /usr/local?

(Running v2.16.1 as live CD).

Appreciate advice.

Thanks in advance.

Steve

tempestuous
Posts: 5464
Joined: Fri 10 Jun 2005, 05:12
Location: Australia

Re: internet radio on puppy re: install xmms problem

#46 Post by tempestuous »

stevesr0 wrote:it didn't install into /usr/local but directly under /.
That's not true. I just installed Dougal's xmms-1.2.10-base.pup now, and the main executable installs into /usr/local/bin/
stevesr0 wrote:for xmms, it complains about missing sound files
Those error messages relate to libraries that only affect compatibility with the ESD sound manager and mikmod audio files.
I'm playing an MP3 file with XMMS right now.
Technically speaking, it's correct process to go into the XMMS Options > Preferences and change the Output Plugin to ALSA, but OSS still works OK via Puppy's ALSA-OSS library.

If you find that XMMS is still a bit demanding of resources on your computer, I remember now that forum member brucehohl claims that "xfmedia" has low CPU usage in Puppy. xfmedia is available as a dotpet here -
http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/dis ... -0.9.1.pet

Another lightweight audio player is the xhippo+lamip combination -
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=10722
but you need to be happy about its very basic interface.

stevesr0
Posts: 169
Joined: Sun 24 Jun 2007, 17:25

reply to tempestuous

#47 Post by stevesr0 »

When I wrote that xmms was not installed to /usr/local, I based that statement on it's placement in the file manager window, which is under /, not /usr/local. I am talking only about the placement on MY machine, not your machine. I guess it is possible that it is nonetheless actually under /usr/local; please advise how I can check that out.

I was writing for advise on how to fix the installation, since this was my first install and I assume that sometimes the installation goes awry. Not complaining about the program or Dougal's work to assure it goes in the correct location, but rather aware of my own limited skills.

Nonetheless, I am skeptical at this moment that the program was installed on my machine at /usr/local.

Beyond that, my main reason for writing was to obtain assistance in making xmms work in Puppy; it seems to work fine in DSL.

Thanks for any advice.

Steve

stevesr0
Posts: 169
Joined: Sun 24 Jun 2007, 17:25

second comment - hmm, what is the main executable?

#48 Post by stevesr0 »

After doing the install of XMMS, I used the file manager to see where the XMMS directory was. This was under (/). When I looked under /usr/local, I didn't see anything I recognized as related to XMMS.

However, maybe I am not looking for the correct files (especially the main executable you refer to). What I saw was the XMMS directory (folder) and within that subfolders for plugins and skins. But I didn't see any files.

My Puppy install isn't available to me now; tomorrow, I will relaunch the Live CD and again download and install the dotpup and use the command line to see if I can identify executables and other files related to XMMS in (/) and (/usr/local).

Parenthetically, the instructions in the thread about installing and configuring XMMS recommend "disabling" madplay and one of the lib.so files. I tried to do this but couldn't find these files and killall madplay responded no process killed - I suspect this means that I was either working from the wrong directory or madplay wasn't present.

Appreciate comments about that too.

Thanks again, this is really a helpful forum.

Steve

gregory
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat 14 Jul 2007, 12:18

puppy or dsl

#49 Post by gregory »

hello, this is my first posting here. in fact, i just completed installing puppy on my i.b.m. thinkpad 570 laptop (pII333mhz, 128megs ram, 4 gig hd), having first tried damn small linux. i found that puppy was easier to setup for the internet (for me), for one thing. i started the install 20 minutes ago and here i am! now, i'm no linux guru like these other folks obviously are and i really admire their intelligence and knowledge of linux. so i dont to refute anything these experts have said, i just want to say that as a novice, puppy has proven to me to be the easier and more user friendly of the two. the only problem i've had so far is playing dvd's, understandably probably due to the ancient nature of my laptop. i can get dvd's to play. now with reduced resolution, going from 1024X768 to 800X600, dvd's will play, but even then its very choppy. no big deal.
so i have tried both o.s.'s and am finding puppy to be the better one so far. next i will try to set up my wireless card and see how that goes.
ta!

---------------------------------
well, i posted that the other day and i got to thinking. i had alot of space left on my huge 4gig hd, so i used gparted to create a 1gig ext2 partition, then loaded dsl on it. after that, it was simply a matter of editing the grub menu.lst. (some sweating there)
so ive got both o.s.'s booting flawlessly! now i know that this is childs play for alot of you linux gurus, but this is great for me since i just downloaded both o.s.'s last week. and just started using puppy (outstanding!) a couple days ago. if i could, i'd pat myself on the back.
greg :D

Post Reply