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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Puppy or Damn Small Linux(DSL)?
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dtzxdtzx

Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Fri 18 May 2007, 14:49    Post subject:  Puppy or Damn Small Linux(DSL)?  

Hi,

Could someone tell me the difference between Puppy and DSL? Which one is better for an old machine with petium 133 mzh cpu and 48 ram?

Thanks
Frank
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11150
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Fri 18 May 2007, 15:46    Post subject:  

I suppose the answer depends on a lot of things. Mainly, what will you be using the computer for? Also, how familiar are you with Linux and Linux applications in general? Are you comfortable with the command line?

Having said all that, both Puppy and DSL are small enough that you could download them and answer the question for yourself. Smile
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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Fri 18 May 2007, 17:33    Post subject:  

One thing I can tell you is that you won't be able to run Puppy in ram with only 48MB. You should still be able to run it, but unless you either do a full or frugal HD install, you'll have to leave the CD in the drive, which will be horribly slow.

I haven't used DSL yet, but I imagine it would be a similar situation.

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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11131
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Fri 18 May 2007, 17:59    Post subject:  

DSL is smaller overall than Puppy, but I don't like it enough to use it.

Puppy would install but not run very fast.

You might want to look into an older release of Vector Linux as some fit your system or come close to fitting in terms of minimum requirements.

http://www.vectorlinux.com/Docs/miscellaneous/version_table.html
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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4796
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Fri 18 May 2007, 19:20    Post subject: search damn not dsl  

I bet answers to your question are here already:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=17771

The problem here is that you can search for "damn" and not "dsl" (words with less than 4 letters are ignored). And probably, a lot won't bother to type "damnsmalllinux".

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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11131
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Fri 18 May 2007, 22:50    Post subject: Re: search damn not dsl  

raffy wrote:
{cut}


The problem here is that you can search for "damn" and not "dsl" (words with less than 4 letters are ignored). And probably, a lot won't bother to type "damnsmalllinux".


That explains a lot for me. Thanks.
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alienjeff


Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Posts: 2291
Location: Winsted, CT - USA

PostPosted: Fri 18 May 2007, 23:06    Post subject:  

Pizzasgood wrote:
I haven't used DSL yet, but I imagine it would be a similar situation.


With all due respect, if you haven't used DSL, you really should consider refraining from passing judgement - even imagined judgement. FYI, DSL is a 50M distro, so it will run significantly better than au courant versions of Puppy on the hardware mentioned - so it isn't a "similar situation" at all.

Pre-emptive qualifier: yes, I have used DSL - two versions, in fact.

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MU


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 13644
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

PostPosted: Fri 18 May 2007, 23:11    Post subject:  

you can search for *dsl* to find 3 letter words.
Mark
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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11131
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Fri 18 May 2007, 23:29    Post subject:  

Damn Small Linux is a different experience. There's a lot in common, they're both small live cd Linux distros they have package management, and etc.

DSL is Knoppix based, it has one of the most unique default interfaces one would expect. It comes out with new releases, but when I take at what's under the hood, I don't find much that has changed.

It is not a work of love, like the kind that Barry and others put into Puppy. It also doesn't have the array of small apps that Puppy has and versions of larger apps are old.

I think studying its package system is some worthwhile study.

In my own mind one of the last things I want to think about is difference between DSL and Puppy. Their just different.

I found a few good small apps in it and some games I like, so I borrowed them to enhance Puppy.

The answer I liked was from Flash.
Quote:

Having said all that, both Puppy and DSL are small enough that you could download them and answer the question for yourself.


I liked it because it's the practical truth. The only way to see if you prefer one over the other, it try them both. The differences are significant enough, the user might know in 10 minutes or so.[/quote]
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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Sat 19 May 2007, 00:18    Post subject:  

alienjeff wrote:
Pizzasgood wrote:
I haven't used DSL yet, but I imagine it would be a similar situation.


With all due respect, if you haven't used DSL, you really should consider refraining from passing judgement - even imagined judgement. FYI, DSL is a 50M distro, so it will run significantly better than au courant versions of Puppy on the hardware mentioned - so it isn't a "similar situation" at all.

Pre-emptive qualifier: yes, I have used DSL - two versions, in fact.


I did know it was 50 megabytes. I also know that the parts of Puppy that actually matter are about 64 megabytes. The zdrv_xxx.sfs file has no impact on running speed other than a short delay the first time you load each driver (the first time ever, not per session). I'd say 64 vs. 50 is pretty similar.

But that's not what I meant. I never mentioned similar performance, only similar situation. I was referring to running from the cd. I "imagined" that DSL would be forced to run from the CD unless it was installed, just like with Puppy. Part of my reasoning was that even 50MB is more than 48, and I've been under the impression that DSL wants you to have 128MB of ram before it will run in ram anyways. Even if it could load into ram with, say, 40MB, that would only leave 8MB for personal use, which I "imagine" would not be desirable unless you stick to the CLI, even with DSL.

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Lobster
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Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Sat 19 May 2007, 00:36    Post subject:  

Smile

What you get working for your needs is better.
DSL has the JWM that Barry has supported and coaxed into stability (with Joes hard coding) as an option.

A running Puppy is better than damn it
but damn it is better than nothing. For what it is (and like Puppy it improves) it is very good AND it can if it runs install a Debian system on your HD.

I have a 133mz Pentium running Puppy at the moment. However the screen display is not very good (frisky kennel members are helping me with that). So about to try the latest DeliLinux (already tried 0.7 - 0.7.2 is out - see later post). However Deli has an old horror style set up routine. Could be tears . . .

How would Austrumi run on your hardware? - Actually it would not - the list of requirements are 128MB ram.

Or how about arachne with freedos (invented by Fish - glad to see them showing some iniatative) and using online apps . . .
http://home.arachne.cz/

Xubuntu is the fastest of the buntu family
I would try Puppy 2.16
and then DSL
if that did not work and I had finished hitting my head against a brick wall as a diversion

then I would look to other options

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Last edited by Lobster on Sat 19 May 2007, 06:38; edited 2 times in total
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4812
Location: GB

PostPosted: Sat 19 May 2007, 01:46    Post subject:  

In answer to the substantive question: Both. DSL is extremely good at what it does. It even installs to scsi. I like it for what it does. Puppy is better at some things. Keep DSL for older kit with lower resources. Enthusiasts should be running half-a-dozen machines - if you need another, let me know how many. Otherwise, anyone can find them lying around these days. As Lob. says, Austrumi is also excellent - it has the advantage that all the choices have been made for you, all work, and precious space is saved by eliminating options, add-ons, d/l s , etc. If multiple machines is an issue for 'er indoors, suggest you keep your boxes and load up 'er suitcases.
If it's security you need, there's only one - TrueBSD. Unlikely the crooked spamming, bot-ing b*st*rds would bother with a minority distro or bother to visit the website to read how to activate it. Criminals are, by definition, lazy.
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GuestToo
Puppy Master

Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 4078

PostPosted: Sat 19 May 2007, 03:02    Post subject:  

Quote:
DSL is a 50M distro, so it will run significantly better than au courant versions of Puppy

Puppy at one time used to load everything, the entire file system, from one file (image.gz, which is now named initrd.gz)

that is, all the files in image.gz were decompressed and copied to ram ... image.gz was about 50 megs

later, the file system was split between image.gz and usr_cram.fs, so the image.gz file could be smaller ... it is the size of the image.gz file that determines whether Puppy can boot or not on older hardware with very limited ram

i still have Puppy 108 installed ... Puppy 108's image.gz file is 7.6 megs ... the usr_cram.fs file is 53 megs

later versions of Puppy changed the names of the files, and also changed the way that the file system is loaded, to make it possible to boot later versions of Puppy on machines with less ram

i have Puppy 216 installed ... Puppy 216's initrd.gz file is 913k, less than 1 meg, smaller than a floppy ... Puppy 216's pup_216.sfs file is 71 megs

if there is enough space, the pup_216.sfs file is copied to ram, as was Puppy 108's usr_cram.fs file, which allows Puppy to run faster and without needing to constantly access the slower cd drives or hard drive ... if space in ram is limited, Puppy will just mount the pup_save.sfs file system, which does not use any space in ram (if you actually run a program, that program loads into ram and requires memory, but programs that are not run are not loaded in ram and do not use or need memory)

so basically, the older versions of Puppy required much more ram than the latest versions of Puppy do ... Puppy 216 requires less ram than any older version of Puppy
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4812
Location: GB

PostPosted: Sat 19 May 2007, 04:41    Post subject:  

Nice exposition, G2. We should encapsulate it and use it as a Guide for the legions that come after. Can you organise that. 'Sticky', I suppose?
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Colonel Panic


Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 1528

PostPosted: Sat 19 May 2007, 04:48    Post subject:  

Lobster wrote:
Smile

What you get working for your needs is better.
DSL has the JWM that Barry has supported and coaxed into stability (with Joes hard coding) as an option.

A running Puppy is better than damn it
but damn it is better than nothing. For what it is (and like Puppy it improves) it is very good AND it can if it runs install a Debian system on your HD.

I have a 133mz Pentium running Puppy at the moment. However the screen display is not very good (frisky kennel members are helping me with that). So about to try the latest DeliLinux. However Deli has an old horror style set up routine. Could be tears . . .

How would Austrumi run on your hardware? - Actually it would not - the list of requirements are 128MB ram.

Or how about arachne with freedos (invented by Fish - glad to see them showing some iniatative) and using online apps . . .
http://home.arachne.cz/

Xubuntu is the fastest of the buntu family
I would try Puppy 2.16
and then DSL
if that did not work and I had finished hitting my head against a brick wall as a diversion

then I would look to other options


Deli 0.7.2 has just come out, it might be worth a look.
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