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What is the best way to install Puppy on my old computer?
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dtzxdtzx

Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Thu 17 May 2007, 14:06    Post subject:  What is the best way to install Puppy on my old computer?  

Hi,

I have an old notebook. It equiped with Pentium 133 MHZ CPU, 48M Ram, 1GB harddisk, internal CD-ROM, external floppy disk, two PCMCIA slots.
I want to use two PCMCIA for flash card and microdrive. It has build in ethernet.

Can anyone tell me what is the best way to install Puppy?

Thanks

Frank
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Skimmel


Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 27
Location: Houston, TX

PostPosted: Thu 17 May 2007, 16:35    Post subject: What I did  

I used Puppy for a while with an even slower machine (100 mhz, 32mb ram) than yours. The performance will never be very exciting but it can be done. There are a couple crucial things that need to be done.

You must create a swap partition on the hard disk. 128 mb should be plenty for your machine. Apparently Linux treats the swap partition as more ram. I used Gparted on DSL (Damn Small Linux) to do this. I wouldn't use DSL long term but on my really limited machine it did boot reasonably quickly.

Start Puppy and as soon as you can, get it to go through the shutdown routine. This will give you the opportunity to write a save file to the hard disk. Using that, Puppy will load and run more quickly. On later starts, the system will save your configuration and files.

On my older machine, I couldn't make Grub work, so I ended up booting off the cdrom all the time.
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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11131
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Thu 17 May 2007, 17:35    Post subject:  

There are two major steps

(1) prepare the hard drive with an ext2 partition (or two if you like) + 1 swap partition

After you have partitioned and formatted the drive, you are ready to install.

(2) Install Puppy Linux - the install type should be 'normal' AKA 'option 2' (a completely different installation type than the one recommend above).

Choosing 'normal' is my opinion and it is also official opinion with low RAM machines like yours.

A side advantage of the Normal install is, it will install GRUB. I recommend install it on the MBR, although that is not the official position.

------------------------

You will end up with a computer that boots from the hard disk and leaves about as high as 20 MB free RAM to run programs, before swapping becomes essential.

If you have problems running Gparted (due to lack of RAM) let us know, there are other ways of partitioning and formatting the drive.
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dtzxdtzx

Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Thu 17 May 2007, 17:59    Post subject: Does Puppy have Gparted?  

So does Puppy have Gparted or anyother tools to partition hard drive? Or I have to get it from DSL. Does Puppy support PDMCIA card and ethernet?

Thanks

Frank
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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4796
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Thu 17 May 2007, 18:21    Post subject: yes  

Yes it has Gparted with GUI, and console-based cfdisk and fdisk.

Run Setup - Network wizard for ethernet setup, and click on the USB icon on the desktop to load your storage devices.

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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11131
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Thu 17 May 2007, 18:45    Post subject:  

Raffy,

Changing subject here. I haven't wanted to bother you, because I read you were on a limited time schedule and working hard on Puppy's menu system.

Now that I have your attention. I have a very sincere question. I read most posts on this forum. I've read a few posts from people who couldn't get their networking cards (devices of various sorts) set up properly with 215CE.

Following the threads through to their logical end. I concluded that something likely changed for the worse in this area in 215CE.

To condense. The summary seems along these lines (1) networking devices worked with 2.14 but didn't with 215CE or (2) after not working with 215CE, installing 2.14 cleared up the problem.

I personally didn't experience problems. I do try and help people and I feel like saying, "If you can't get it configured in 215CE try 2.14."

I've not said that yet.

----------

Barry said you'd be the man to talk to. May I inquire: What's your opinion on this topic?

Bruce
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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4796
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Thu 17 May 2007, 19:59    Post subject: notes  

Frank, some more notes for you:

1. If you install Puppy following Bruce's "normal" option, there will be no need for a save file at shutdown as suggested by Skimmel - that happens only with the use of live CD (or frugal install, not advised here). [Of course if you installed Puppy from live CD, it will ask you to save at shutdown, to which you will have to reply "Don't Save".]

2. If you put the Puppy install in hda1 (first Linux partition), then choosing "root" in Grub will still be OK. Check that the "boot" or "B" property is associated with that partition (in Gparted or cfdisk).

Hi Bruce, it's network booting with 2.16 that occupied me lately. Smile Oh, so Barry said something like that, cool. Embarassed He must have meant forum member Whodo, or Warren, the 2.15CE leader. Sometimes people also think that I am Rarsa (to which Rarsa objects that he looks much better. Smile )

Re: 2.15CE and 2.14, advising users like, "If you can't get it configured in 215CE try 2.14" is accurate given other users' experiences, but I guess we would never know exactly the source of the problems. Let us see what WhoDo has to say and wait for his promised final 2.15CE update (based on unleashed).

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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11131
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Fri 18 May 2007, 00:07    Post subject: Re: notes  

raffy wrote:


{text cut}

2. If you put the Puppy install in hda1 (first Linux partition), then choosing "root" in Grub will still be OK. Check that the "boot" or "B" property is associated with that partition (in Gparted or cfdisk).


{text cut}


You're good work is appreciated regardless of what project you are working on!


I wanted to elaborate on item 2.

Puppy Install recommends installing GRUB to the superblock which would be the first logical sector in the partition.

I recommend the MBR, but that's a different subject.

If one installs GRUB to the superblock it leaves the MBR untouched.

When a computer boots, it goes through a systematic process of passing control to various points, after that control is completed control gets passed to the next place in the boot process.

One of the first things that control is passed to is the Video adapter, that's why you see it first (usually in the upper left corner). As you read the screen text, you can get some idea of the sequencing in passing and returning control.

At a certain point control gets passed to the boot device(s). If the first boot device is a cdrom, it gets control and takes over the booting process. If it fails to boot, control is passed to the next configured device in the chain.

If control is passed to a hard drive, it is not passed to the whole drive, it is passed to the first physical sector on the hard drive. This will be the MBR (Master Boot Record). The MBR contains information about the drives layout and has executable code sufficient to pass control to the first logical sector in the bootable partition.

A standard MS-DOS type MBR can boot Linux or Windows. One of the things it does is determine what partition is the active partition. It doesn't care what kind of operating system is on the partition or what the filesystem. It simply knows the location of the bootable (active) partition and passes control to the first sector in that partition.

If GRUB is installed on the first sector of the active or bootable partition, control will be passed to GRUB and GRUB takes over from there in the Linux booting process, GRUB doesn't retain control beyond getting Linux files in control, then GRUB's code as well as the MBR code is inactive, having completed their functions.

The standard MBR has limits. One limit is it will only look for active partitions on its own drive. Its not designed to look at other hard disks and determine what's going on over there. I'm pretty sure it will boot from up to one of four primary partitions, whichever is marked active. In other words: It's not a boot manager.

But one is not limited by standard limits when GRUB is installed, even if it is installed on the superblock. The reason why is control is passed to GRUB and the menu system can define numerous instructions, even booting an inactive partition on another drive. GRUB is a boot manager.

The safest method is to install GRUB on the superblock. I just think that installing it that way, also requires that the user has some knowledge of what is going on. Unless it is a simple system. Thus my reason for elaborating.

When GRUB is installed on the MBR - GRUB doesn't care what if anything is marked active or bootable. It passes control to the partition and directory GRUB has been told to find the rest of its files.

I think it is a more simple to have it on the MBR, but a more risky way of going about it. The risk being that GRUB has been known to miscalculate essential drive parameters. I've always had success with it. But one reason I don't worry, is I make a backup MBR in case it messes up.

Long post, thanks for reading.
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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Fri 18 May 2007, 00:28    Post subject: Re: Does Puppy have Gparted?  

dtzxdtzx wrote:
So does Puppy have Gparted or anyother tools to partition hard drive? Or I have to get it from DSL. Does Puppy support PDMCIA card and ethernet?

Yes, Puppy has Gparted and supports both PCMCIA and Ethernet devices.

With only 48Mb RAM you would be better to download and burn GParted to it's own LiveCD and boot from that to change your partitions. It's a Catch-22 situation: Puppy won't boot in 48Mb RAM without a Swap partition and you can't create that Swap partition by booting Puppy without a Swap partition. *sigh*

BruceB wrote:
To condense. The summary seems along these lines (1) networking devices worked with 2.14 but didn't with 215CE or (2) after not working with 215CE, installing 2.14 cleared up the problem.

Bruce, there was a messed up mismatch of scripts for networking in 2.15CE that can be solved by installing rarsa's most recent Net-Setup-2.15-1, which is available from Puppy Projects>Puppy 2.15CE Patches and Updates on the forum.

Hope that helps without the need to revert to 2.14 to resolve.

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Gn2


Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 936
Location: virtual - Veni vidi, nihil est adpulerit

PostPosted: Fri 18 May 2007, 00:52    Post subject:  

The O.P. requested
Quote:
best way to install Puppy

There are MANY posts & links to Puppy URLs, relating to HOW-TO Docs & installing Puppy
Including suggestions when hardware is somewhat "limited"
Whichever seems "best" is then left to the user

Off topic was querying RAFFY to post own sidebars:
If that was the goaL >
The actual whole boot process & subsequent system initiate process has been posted several times

Raffy likely is very familiar

The MBR (master boot RECORD/S doesn't boot anything
> It IS the hard drive sector FIRST found by BIOS containing the initial loader bytes
to activate kernel or access further bytes for contiguous loading data

As well as the place to store partition tables & "Pointer" to any EBR if it exists

A boot loader may be configured to multi-boot (CHAIN LOAD)
wherever it has been configured to pass 2nd stage contiguous load data
There are MANY ways to boot - a loader is NOT necessarily Req'd.
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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11131
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Fri 18 May 2007, 02:16    Post subject:  

Quote:
The O.P. requested
Quote:
best way to install Puppy

There are MANY posts & links to Puppy URLs, relating to HOW-TO Docs & installing Puppy
Including suggestions when hardware is somewhat "limited"
Whichever seems "best" is then left to the user


He is a newbie, only two posts.

This is a beginners forum. The first answer he received was (in part) to save pup_file to disk and essentially boot from cdrom.

This is not the best way to install Puppy on a 48 MB RAM machine. However there are ways to install Puppy even with his machine. But some explanation is in order.


Quote:
Off topic was querying RAFFY to post own sidebars:
If that was the goaL >


What was it a misdemeanor, felony, carnal sin or perhaps no big deal?

Raffy didn't complain. I don't think I did anything wrong. As for my goals or motives, I'm clean.


Quote:
The actual whole boot process & subsequent system initiate process has been posted several times


Probably a lot of things have been posted many times over in various ways. I suppose we could just say, "Search and find."

However, if I choose to help someone by giving my best answers, it does not warrant being told this has been discussed before, as if I've done wrong, which I have not, especially where a new person is concerned.

Quote:
Raffy likely is very familiar


Raffy was not the subject of my communication, the new person and anyone who was interested, including Raffy were the subjects.

Quote:
The MBR (master boot RECORD/S doesn't boot anything
> It IS the hard drive sector FIRST found by BIOS containing the initial loader bytes
to activate kernel or access further bytes for contiguous loading data


It's always the first sector. The MBR is located at the first physical sector, the Boot sector is the first logical sector in most partition types. If you want to think the BIOS finds the boot sector and activates the code in it without the MBR playing its role - fine - I could argue, and I'd be right - but I don't care.

Quote:
As well as the place to store partition tables & "Pointer" to any EBR if it exists

A boot loader may be configured to multi-boot (CHAIN LOAD)
wherever it has been configured to pass 2nd stage contiguous load data
There are MANY ways to boot - a loader is NOT necessarily Req'd.


None of that affirms or negates what I wrote - so I take it as elaborating on you're part. Which is what I did. Only, I'm not the kind of guy to make you wrong for elaborating - even if its been posted before.
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Gn2


Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 936
Location: virtual - Veni vidi, nihil est adpulerit

PostPosted: Fri 18 May 2007, 02:57    Post subject:  

Quote:
BIOS finds the boot sector and activates the code in it without the MBR playing its role - fine - I could argue, and I'd be right - but I don't care.
There are many things noted that "you don't care"

Common sense springs foremost as one
Quote:
~ Raffy was not the subject of my communication
~ Raffy, ~ Changing subject here.
~ Barry said you'd be the man to talk to
~ 215CE.

MBR that contains NO linux data ?
Think......... wiptoing all MBR content - but still can boot
Think.........E.G. > .Smart Boot Mgr, floppy ~Syslinux ~ PXE

Raffy didn't mind -of course not > all can see why !
The O.P. may wonder why all the personal sidebars
You want to ask Raffy RE non-original topics - or discuss MBRS/loaders at length -
Go ahead . in OWN thread.
OTOH - Flash takes SOME poor users to task merely for including more than one help request

So if he can do that - or edit headers, delete posts without any edit notifications why not !

It is evident democratic principles such as "justifications or "policing" has different meaning to some people
As it did in the "Police State" thread
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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11131
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Fri 18 May 2007, 03:46    Post subject:  

Gn2 wrote:
Quote:
BIOS finds the boot sector and activates the code in it without the MBR playing its role - fine - I could argue, and I'd be right - but I don't care.
There are many things noted that "you don't care"


My answer is true, I could argue. I don't care.

Who am I to persuade you outside your thinking? Would it even work to argue? I grant you this conception of how things work.


Quote:
Common sense springs foremost as one
Quote:
~ Raffy was not the subject of my communication
~ Raffy, ~ Changing subject here.
~ Barry said you'd be the man to talk to
~ 215CE.

MBR that contains NO linux data ?
Think......... floppy ~Syslinux ~ PXE


I don't really don't know what you are getting at.

Linux can boot under the conditions of an MBR, as made DOS 5 thru Windows 9x (and more)

That is right - NO linux data need be in the MBR.

I don't know why my posting ruffled your feathers or why you say the things about Flash, democratic principles and so on.

Flash stated two things then asked you to do something.

(1) It is not your place to police the forum. (That's true, its not your place)

(2) Your efforts to do so [police] are making the forum an unfriendly place for people who are only trying to be helpful. (I can sure understand why he said that)

Then he asked "Please, stop it."

I don't see a big deal in anything he wrote or what I wrote.
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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Fri 18 May 2007, 04:38    Post subject:  

Gn2 wrote:
The O.P. may wonder why all the personal sidebars
You want to ask Raffy RE non-original topics - or discuss MBRS/loaders at length -
Go ahead . in OWN thread.

"Hello, Pot? This is Kettle. Over!" Shocked

It was only in the last 24 hours or so, Gn2, that you and Sage hijacked another thread with your OT banter of "see how smart I can be with all of my clever allusions"! If memory serves, it was a discussion of Quantum drift in a thread foreshadowing the release of 2.16 Final? Maybe I'm just too dumb to see the connection. Razz

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Gn2


Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 936
Location: virtual - Veni vidi, nihil est adpulerit

PostPosted: Fri 18 May 2007, 05:11    Post subject:  

Correct > there is no rhyme nor reason in these Forums -

Rules change depending on WHO is the sanctimonious * or can first pander & best via currying favour prior to proclamations of outraged moralities !
If you bothered to check facts - that original topic was "high-jacked" several times by several people !
Before you try to state xor.ko notations were off topic -
It was included since BK was VERY aware of why the delay to a final release
As such it might bolster Barry's decision that nag t would not be any reason to delay
Then the topic really strayed -

So I thought - WTH - Might as well make it really ludicrous with tongue in cheek notations.
Even the O.P joined in, it wasn't a help request, so why not ?

However, do you really think it is not known the exact line that .......
Yes, your memory serves all right !

Now if Modding WAS ever level headed or applied - topics that stray too far would be split/moved
They aren't - even if requested by OP

Calmer heads than you or I have openly posted that behaviour of MODS
Look in the developer Blogs (comments) .

POT - it all starts from top down - Razz dumb, try dense.
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