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Lobster
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#31 Post by Lobster »

Sage wrote:Try it! A black background is far less strain.
?
tried it Sage. Many times. many monitors. Many conditions.

In theory yes. In practice I find black on white background more legible.

We dont use black paper with white print.

That is why grey is a good compromise for those extolling the virtues of their preference - which clearly don't appear black or white . . .
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#32 Post by Sage »

Black paper costs more to make and white pencils are less than satisfactory. Those technologies don't apply here, and the green credentials are reversed for electronic media.

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pakt
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#33 Post by pakt »

Sage, you obviously require a bit more convincing so here are two more excerpts from serious ergonomics sources:

From FAQ at http://www.netsci.org/Science/Special/feature01.html
5)Q. Is there an optimum screen brightness and color scheme to help prevent eye strain?

A. Black characters against a light gray background are often easiest on the eyes for long periods. Its suggested that contrast and brightness should be adjusted to create the brightest screen without blurring.
From http://www.northwestern.edu/risk/Ergo.htm, excerpt from the "Ergonomic Survey to see if you have task/risk factors"
(the lower the points the better)
4. The primary screen used has:

a. A very light background with dark characters similar to print on paper (2 points)
b. A light colored background with darker characters (4 points)
c. A dark colored or black background with light characters (8 points)
I could find any number of authoritative sources supporting this: for best computer ergonomics, ie, to make is easier on the eyes, you should have dark characters on a light background.

Sage, please show me a serious reference that recommends what you suggest: light characters on a dark background. ;)
Methinks Raspberry Pi were ideal for runnin' Puppy Linux

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#34 Post by Sage »

This fact is both subjectively as well as intuitively evident
Have you tried it yet?!
The eye is a remarkable instrument. It can discriminate a candle flickering at three miles. It is degraded by bright lights which tend to saturate the rods and cones all too easily. Everyone knows this - try shining a torch into one eye - it takes a few minutes to recover. The phenomenon of persistence of vision is known to every schoolchild. Furthermore, once your eyes accostom themselves to a 'dark' room, most folks begin to discern the objects around them, since the complete absence of light is difficult to achieve. You may get a good view of the stars up there in the archipelagos, but down here in our crowded towns (and countryside), we are blighted by street lights, commonly referred to as light pollution.
So, go on try a black background and see how much you will like it and how soothing it is on the eyes. If you wish, put up yellow text. The nearer you can get to a green text and still resolve it the better as there is a sharp dip in response in this part of the spectrum.
Light, especially toward the blue end, degrades nearly everything organic ie based on carbon, that includes people! The chemistry is irrefutable.

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#35 Post by Gn2 »

Ahh....... let there be a light-errrr touch on this.....
light characters on a dark background

> The Sky ?

In the beginning - there was no light - so God said "Let there be Light"

& by G - there was

In "The Beginning" There was nothing but dark
Nothing however, could be seen.
So G created light: nothing could still be seen - but it was now evident, since in all wisdom > light had been cast on the subject

So you see, Ergo - How this is "felt" is now the topic.
Seeing the background is as dark as ever it was In :wink: the Beginning
Sage, do ya follow the code ?

Oh BTW - colour as we see it - is NOT

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#36 Post by Sage »

Too true - as we've observed before, nothing is what it seems. Red is blue and blue is red. Who's that walking on the ceiling?
Glad you were able to shed light on the matter - or anti-matter, if travelling in the parallel of our own space-time continuum.
And, on that note, I just know that Lob is going to want to join the party.

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#37 Post by Gn2 »

To continue -umm: Isn't that Approx when I came in ~
The Lobster Quadrille ?

"Will you walk a little faster" said a whiting to a snail -
"Theres a purpose close behind me" - and he's treading on my tale.....
Who will come and join the dance
~ The snail replled; "Too far too far" & gave a look askance
"What matters it how far we go?" his scaly friend replied.
"There is another shore, you know, upon the other side."

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#38 Post by Sage »

Oh dear, the 'other side' sounds ominous.
Is that the same as the 'dark side'?
Come in Lob., we need your directions....

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#39 Post by Lobster »

I am busy trying to buy a 'Dimensional Warp Generator'

http://tmxxine.com/pligg

. . . as for the dark side of the force (and the screen)
In the realm of the Grey Lords, harmony is achieved by balancing the complimentrary elements.

The important thing is not what is right or wrong, for that is dependent on perception and persuasion.

What is important is what works. This is why Linux allows the followers of light to shine and the followers of the void to empty the lighter side . . .

I follow the Middle Way . . .

The Middle way has four truths*

Existence includes Darkness
Darkness has a cause
Light exists
Follow the 8 fold Puppy

* based on the four Noble Truths of Buddhism

Image


http://www.killingthebuddha.com/
old gods, new tricks
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#40 Post by Pizzasgood »

Try reading anything on a white background in a dark room at 3am. Even if you do overcome the pain and make your eyes adjust, as soon as you finish and stand up, you'll fall flat on your face because your roommate left a chair in the middle of the floor. :roll: With a dark background you don't hurt your eyes and your night vision isn't quite so depleted, so hopefully you'll see that chair.

On the other hand, though dark backgrounds aren't very bright during the day, they don't hurt your eyes.

As for green or white on black, it's just too much contrast. I always reset my terminal to use black a background and gray text. (My desktop icons generally don't have text, just an image, so that's why I'm talking about terminals.)
[size=75]Between depriving a man of one hour from his life and depriving him of his life there exists only a difference of degree. --Muad'Dib[/size]
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Flash
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#41 Post by Flash »

My old eyes find any color text on a black or dark background to be nearly impossible to read. Sometimes, if I'm in a good mood, I copy the text and paste it into a word processor so I can read it. Mostly I just close that page and read something else instead. Black text on a white or light green or yellow background is the most readable for me.

If you youngsters don't want us old fuddys to read your stuff, use red letters on a black background. If you're asking me to send you some money, better use black ink on a white background. :lol:

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#42 Post by pakt »

From one old fuddy to another - nicely put Flash :)

To others who find a 'white' background too bright - so do I. The recommendations are for dark text on a light - not white - background. Nowhere does it say you should use a 'white' background (re-read the quotes I gave earlier). The 'earlgrey' image I posted earlier in this thread is about as bright as I would want a background to be. Normally I use a somewhat darker colored image which still gives me good contrast with dark text and the desktop icons. I also have my LCD panel's brightness set quite low.

Paul
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#43 Post by Sage »

Extremely unusual for a Swede to reject the eco-friendly option! I might have to report you to the eco-warriors, pakt! Black = OFF. Less power, less landfill. Quite apart from the fact that a black background is more restful to the eyes. But if you must ape conspicuous consumption, try a very dark blue. The entire argument is spurious, anyway, since most active time is spent looking at coloured images rather than the desktop or a blank screen screensaver.

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#44 Post by pakt »

Sage wrote:Extremely unusual for a Swede to reject the eco-friendly option! I might have to report you to the eco-warriors, pakt! Black = OFF. Less power, less landfill.
Quite the contrary, Sage. On a TFT panel the back light is on whether your background is light *or* dark. It's the back light that uses the most power in a TFT panel. Otherwise I have my panel set to standby after 20min of unuse *then* the back light turns off. Ergo my electricity bill isn't any higher than your's ;)
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#45 Post by Sage »

It's not only the cold cathode tubes that consume power, each pixel is one (or three, depending how you count them) transistors - even at the pico-Ampere level each, that's still a significant total when summed over all units, over the year. The case for crt s, still used by the majority around the world, is even more compelling, even though the guns are still, technically, ON.

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spliting hairs

#46 Post by mysticmarks »

Dont split hairs over readability. Each eye is different, i like bright backgrounds with dark text if i'm in the office or in daylight, but i like dark backgrounds with green or white text at night. In reality all screens cause eye strain due to the lack of depth and the eye not trying to change focus from far and near. Your iris starts to atrophy after a few hours. This is a repetative issue for any long term computer user. The best thing to do ergonomically is focus on objects other than the screen at different distances at a 10 minute interval or less. You are basically working your eye muscles. After adding that to my pc routine :wink: , i found myself able to look for longer periods with less strain.
As far as i can tell ,this whole conversation started from a question as to what backgrounds Barry was looking for to include in 2.16. They all look neat, but size and ability to see icons are key elements. IMHO, a gray background just lacks that warm feeling of a user friendly distro. Simple colors w/ nice gradients would be far more friendly. Maybe pastel hues of a few colors such as red, green, blue, yellow, whatever and have them gradiented down to a black, and also to a white. im betting that a pastel green or purple would look nice against black or white. Yellow and orange would look great with white, and red or blue with black. (color wheel says they all work, but who cares) I do graphics/CAD for a living, so I will throw some together if needed. I just do that stuff all day :? , so i kind of look forward to the applications end of my linux time. :D

The best part is that there are so many ways to add depth to a image with gradients, and all in a very small file. :)

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Re: spliting hairs

#47 Post by pakt »

mysticmarks wrote:I do graphics/CAD for a living, so I will throw some together if needed. I just do that stuff all day :? , so i kind of look forward to the applications end of my linux time. :D

The best part is that there are so many ways to add depth to a image with gradients, and all in a very small file. :)
Sounds great :) Could you give us some samples (1024x768 or 1280x1024)? You can host the images on http://i1.tinypic.com/ and just link to them in a post.

Paul
Methinks Raspberry Pi were ideal for runnin' Puppy Linux

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