Puppy Linux Discussion Forum Forum Index Puppy Linux Discussion Forum
Puppy HOME page : puppylinux.com
"THE" alternative forum : puppylinux.info
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The time now is Fri 22 May 2015, 22:50
All times are UTC - 4
 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge
Application Launch notification ideas (Hourglass)
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
Page 1 of 2 [20 Posts]   Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Author Message
rarsa


Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 3053
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Tue 27 Feb 2007, 11:42    Post subject:  Application Launch notification ideas (Hourglass)
Subject description: How can puppy notify the users that the application is launching?
 

Every now and then there are requests to, specifically, "show an hour glass" when launching an application.

e.g.
http://www.puppyos.net/forum/azbb.php?1172292766

I've read (and had) the argument that in windows the OS is actually very busy when launching an application. That user's have been conditioned to accept Windows ineficiency is not Linux's fault.

In Linux, specifically Puppy, the OS does not prevent the user from working while launching an application so the OS is actually not waiting so no need for an hour glass.

I want to approach that request from the actual requirement point of view, because I highly doubt that the actual requirement is to show an "hour glass".

My suspicion is that the problem is that users don't know if they clicked the icon correctly, so sometimes they click two or three times on the icon.

Based on that I think that the requirement is actually the following

Notify the user when an application is launching

This thread is to validate (or invalidate) that previous statement. And to gather ideas on how to address this requirement.

Here is my sugestion:
- Create a "Launcher" script that receives as parameter the command to launch the application
- The launcher would show a notification window indicating that the application is starting and close when the process shows in the "ps -e" list.
- Modify all menu entries and desktop Icons to use the launcher.
- If there is really too much emotional attachment to the hourglass, we could even set the window cursor to be an hour glass.

Yes, it is a hack but very easy to implement.

_________________
http://rarsa.blogspot.com Covering my eclectic thoughts
http://www.kwlug.org/blog/48 Covering my Linux How-to
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
VariEze


Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 114
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Tue 27 Feb 2007, 12:46    Post subject:  

Yes, I think it's a problem that people keep clicking, There was a pup for firefox that popped up a box that said firefox is starting, I don't remember which one. That was very helpful, since firefox takes a miniute to start on a 400mhz machine.

Not all applications need a notification, they start very fast, but on slower machines, even I wonder if the app is started, or crashed.

I use a little script for many programs, to bring up a terminal :
Code:
#!/bin/sh
rxvt -bg orange --geometry 60x10 -e anymp3 "$1"

this one calls up a script that stops mplayer if needed, and starts the new song. The open terminal allows the keybindings for volume, etc to work.

but I don't know how to close the terminal automatically, say when another GUI finally starts.... My script writing is very basic.

An easily editable script for each program that has a slow start, that people can use on an "as needed" basis would be a hack, but a starting point. If you have a 4ghz machine, none of this matters.

--Karl
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
Leon

Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 242
Location: Slovenia

PostPosted: Tue 27 Feb 2007, 16:17    Post subject: Re: Application Launch notification ideas (Hourglass)
Subject description: How can puppy notify the users that the application is launching?
 

I remember that I missed an hourglass too when I started to use Puppy but now an hourglass would be almost annoying to me. My computer isn't old and slow, that's true, but now I'm simply used to Puppy behavior.

rarsa wrote:

My suspicion is that the problem is that users don't know if they clicked the icon correctly, so sometimes they click two or three times on the icon.

Yes, I agree. I like to start many programs and tasks by clicking JWM tray buttons. What I really miss is graphical representation that a button is pressed. I started a new tread with this suggestion.

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=100381#100381

rarsa wrote:

Here is my sugestion:
- Create a "Launcher" script that receives as parameter the command to launch the application
- The launcher would show a notification window indicating that the application is starting and close when the process shows in the "ps -e" list.
- Modify all menu entries and desktop Icons to use the launcher.
- If there is really too much emotional attachment to the hourglass, we could even set the window cursor to be an hour glass.

Yes, it is a hack but very easy to implement.

It seems fine. I only suggest that showing notification window would be optional and user had the chance to turn it off on fast computers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
MU


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 13644
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

PostPosted: Tue 27 Feb 2007, 18:43    Post subject:  

http://puppyfiles.org/dotpupsde/dotpups/Desktop-Tools/MU-demo-notify.pup (24kb)

Run from dotpups-menu to launch mozilla, or type something like
MU-demo-notify leafpad

It uses this small Gtk based popup that I otherwise use in my drag'n'drop trayicons.
Good thing is, that it does not take the focus.

Someone might write a program, that "paints" a custom text on the supplied background-picture before notify.bin is executed.

Mark
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
GuestToo
Puppy Master

Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 4078

PostPosted: Tue 27 Feb 2007, 19:15    Post subject:  

see: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?&t=15298

Firefox has a built in splash screen, but i find that a gxmessage popup is simple and fast ... my start wrapper script also include code that causes double clicks to be ignored
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
puppyfan12


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Tue 27 Feb 2007, 20:00    Post subject:  

Yes, I've also encountered the same problem supporting other users which is why I also recommended some kind of notification an application has been launched.

Windows uses an hour glass but that's not necessary. Any kind of splash screen or small efficient "loading" notification would be very helpful for the end user. I'm not sure which email applications are available for linux with html email support (other than thunderbird or browser+email suites) but hopefully claws with dillo html plugin or whatever it uses will be sufficient and faster than thunderbird. I know a lot of people are against html email and want to enforce plain text but html emails are a requirement for our municipal government and becoming so commonplace that an average person needs it. (seeing html source code just confuses them)

I've found it's common on old systems that applications are clicked several times before the application loads because there's no indication it was clicked on correctly. This is especially true for elderly users or new users who aren't yet comfortable with double clicking, when double clicking is the default launch behaviour.

Of course for developers and people with fast systems it's not as important, this mostly pertains to slower systems and elderly/new users. I'd like to make a puppy that's as easy to use for everyone as possible.

_________________
Joe D.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Tue 27 Feb 2007, 20:50    Post subject:  

In IceWM that isn't a problem, because you can just look at the CPU graph (if you know about it, anyway). It doesn't update as slow as the JWM one, so you can immediately see if something is making the computer "think". In JWM, it doesn't kick in for a while, and it kind of slopes up and down rather than just changing. For example, when the computer stops "thinking", the graph sloooowly levels out over several long refreshes. In IceWM, it just drops at the next refresh, which happens to be very soon after the actual event.

If that were fixed, you could tell what's going on.


As for hourglasses, in Windows there were two versions. The "GO AWAY, I'm busy," one that was only an hourglass, and the "Do stuff if you dare, but I'm working on something in the background too" one that had a cursor with a small hourglass in the corner.

Since Linux doesn't lock you down when thinking hard, you would only need the second one. It could kick in whenever it "thinks hard" for a certain amount of time. That way you wouldn't have to mess with each app, you could just have a small daemon in the background monitoring the CPU use and acting when appropriate (very little more than the graph already does).

How to update the cursor on the fly I couldn't tell you. Also, it would have to only affect the standard pointer, and leave the "window-resizer" one alone.

_________________
Between depriving a man of one hour from his life and depriving him of his life there exists only a difference of degree. --Muad'Dib

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
Nathan F


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 1760
Location: Wadsworth, OH (occasionally home)

PostPosted: Wed 28 Feb 2007, 00:42    Post subject:  

One really small hack is to call seamonkey with the -splash option, which gives you a nice graphical; splash screen until the program is up and running.

I'd rather not have a bouncing cursor or hourglass, but I think a notification in the system tray might be a good plan, or else a small popup in the lower right corner of the screen. Definately not something that steals focus, though. Those sort of things tick off just about anyone who has used a computer for more than a few hours.

Nathan

_________________
Bring on the locusts ...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger 
rarsa


Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 3053
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed 28 Feb 2007, 01:37    Post subject:  

Nathan F wrote:
I think a notification in the system tray might be a good plan, or else a small popup in the lower right corner of the screen.
Woow, great minds do think alike. I was thinking the same thing! Wink
_________________
http://rarsa.blogspot.com Covering my eclectic thoughts
http://www.kwlug.org/blog/48 Covering my Linux How-to
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
DavidBell

Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 132

PostPosted: Wed 28 Feb 2007, 02:08    Post subject:  

I am pretty sure that the only time windows displays an hourglass during launch is the little hourglass+arrow that shows while the actual binary file is being loaded, which usually only takes 1-2 seconds at most. Even then it's only the desktop/taskbar that does this - windows explorer doesn't.

Once the file is loaded, it starts the WinMain function, and from that point all the hourglasses you see are done by the application, including while waiting for any internal initialisation or module loading sequences. In a large application with a lot of dynamically loaded plugin modules the initialisation can take quite a long time - maybe a minute or more - but it's done in WinMain, not by the OS window manager. And if you think about it, really the only thing the WM can measure is loading the binary file, the WM can't tell if or when any internal initialisation is happening.

So I think it's really the job of applications to indicate what they are up to, not the window manager. Often complex applications have a small launcher program that flashes a splashscreen to make it seem to go faster.

DB
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
mysticmarks


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 158
Location: California

PostPosted: Tue 13 Mar 2007, 01:51    Post subject: how about this?>
Subject description: not a hourglass
 

What about a simple confirmation dialog that asks wether you wish to run a second, third, fourth instance of the already running or executed program "X"?

kills the problem entirely, if its running, i dont need another and i know to wait a minute, and if i want more than one, ok!

even better, have it list the program status; to say, " would you like to run/execute another instance of the running/sleeping/zombie program "X" with PID "1234"

and hey!, why not have a kill existing button for zombies/sleepers just for simplicity and function if they come up as such! Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15121
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Tue 13 Mar 2007, 04:18    Post subject:  

MU wrote:
http://puppyfiles.org/dotpupsde/dotpups/Desktop-Tools/MU-demo-notify.pup (24kb)
Run from dotpups-menu to launch mozilla, or type something like
MU-demo-notify leafpad


I have notified team Viz Central (WhoDo) and hope this can be included in RC1 Office for Mozilla Seamonkey and Office, the slowest programs to load . . .

On a reasonably fast machine (my Duron 1200 is fast by Puppy standards) Mozilla takes 6 secs to load, not needed but not distracting if present

On a 333mz AMD (underclocked 350) that I ran Puppy on - still awaiting a trash power supply to get that going . . . Mozilla Seamonkey took 17 secs to load, so this becomes very useful for those on restricted hardware

Nice One Mark (Moin)

_________________
Puppy WIKI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
Nathan F


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 1760
Location: Wadsworth, OH (occasionally home)

PostPosted: Tue 13 Mar 2007, 04:27    Post subject:  

Quote:
hope this can be included in RC1 Office for Mozilla Seamonkey

For seamonkey I would just adjust the scripts to pass the -splash option to the seamonkey.bin binary, as I mentioned previously. A very easy way to make the program feel a little nicer, that I wish they would make default.

Nathan

_________________
Bring on the locusts ...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger 
jurner

Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Tue 03 Apr 2007, 16:01    Post subject:  

David Bell wrote:
...regarding hour glass "busy cursor"

>> So I think it's really the job of
>> applications to indicate what they are
>> up to, not the window manager. Often
>> complex applications have a small
>> launcher program that flashes a
>> splashscreen to make it seem to go
>> faster.

True, but a bit the other way round
...the window manager on windows
equipps all apps with a busy cursor on
startup and it is the job of the app to
replace it on creation time of its main
window with whatever cursor desired.

This way round no guessing is required
wether an app is slow on startup or not.
Fast apps will overwrite the busy cursor
emidiately, slower apps may take a
while todo so.

++ cursors are app specific. That is
a busy cursor is only shown over an
app wich has actually set it.


Juergen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Everitt

Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 331
Location: Leeds,UK or Birmingham, UK

PostPosted: Mon 23 Jun 2008, 12:16    Post subject:  

This would also be great for troublesome applications that don't load. Perhaps it could also monitor the return code. If we get something before a couple of seconds is up, (and it isn't 0 ) then chances are something has gone wrong, so why not include an option to pop up a dialog offering to try again?
I don't really like the idea of popups, as I often open three or four programs at a time, so they would pretty quickly take up a lot of screen space. A single popup that contained a list of starting programs would be cool though. It could be achieved with a deamon that the scripts pass a message too, telling it what program to start. Working on a messaging system would mean that would be very CPU efficient, only doing work when needed rather than polling.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 1 of 2 [20 Posts]   Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.1095s ][ Queries: 11 (0.0034s) ][ GZIP on ]