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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
Puppy 2.15CE "Viz" - Development Ideas/Requests
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
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mbutts


Joined: 11 Nov 2006
Posts: 231
Location: sitn on an iceburg waiting for my next meal to swim by.

PostPosted: Wed 21 Feb 2007, 08:52    Post subject:  

ok here is my thoughts to add to the discussion. i agree with firefox for browser although i love the opera browser with its customization options and widgets. i use both but if i had to choose id go with firefox.
i also like the idea of a compact core with 1 or more add on packs. incorporate into the core a desktop icon for upgrading to make it a no brainer . you could have game, business, graphics, or media packs. it is my opinion that the general public will not use the pet function as much as most of us wud like. least thats what i have found with customers i work with for windows. if it aint super easy they are sometimes reluctant to try things. i LOVE the new pet function btw!! if people know from the start when they download the core that all they have to do is add a pack they might be more likely to upgrade and customize it. downloading a pet is fine, but if you can download a core, and then click one button to make it a business puppy with open office, spreadsheet, fax, ect how cool wud that be? THAT in my humble opinion would help set us apart from everyone else. i guess also you could tweak a pack so all functions work 100%. that way you dont worry about adding something and finding out it doesnt play well with another program. like with what i have read about flash 9 and 7. just put in the one that works.
also, how bout making it available to maybe load the core, then click on a pack (one of several you may have previously downloaded) to configure it for what you need that day. we have had people talk about user accounts, how bout making it so a pack can be user customized with your pets you download. mom likes firefox and games, dad likes opera, multimedia, and business. junior on the other hand likes both browsers, games, and mutimedia. click on the desktop pack you want to load into the core. i understand that this makes it difficult for multi session and saving to hd but its something to think about.
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bodach

Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed 21 Feb 2007, 10:43    Post subject: Printing  

I'd just be happy if I could print using my HP 1610! This is not the first time I've asked for help on this topic. What happens is that printing starts out OK but then fades as though the ink cartridge was empty. In Windows 98 printing works just fine.
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iscraigh

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 276

PostPosted: Wed 21 Feb 2007, 11:45    Post subject:  

I kinda like the pack idea, it would be simple and you could add what you need in a general way.

Craig
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JaDy

Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 157
Location: SE PA USA

PostPosted: Wed 21 Feb 2007, 12:33    Post subject:  

I was about to put my two cents in, and then I read mbutts post, with which I agree. One core Puppy 2.15CE and many packs, pets, pups, sfs, etc. Be sure that a re-master can build a composite iso gathered from whatever a user has added to their core (which can then be released a yet another puplet).

Basically, my concern is that a puppy designed by committee will never run. And, too many pieces in the core make problem isolation extremely difficult. Let's not build a puppy with twenty-three legs.

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PaulBx1

Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2308
Location: Wyoming, USA

PostPosted: Wed 21 Feb 2007, 12:45    Post subject:  

The number one thing I'd like to see is the addition of encrypted pup_saves as a standard feature. The work is already done! It takes almost no room, and does not impact anyone who does not want to use it.

As for the rest of it, I am against bloating Puppy with new stuff, and getting very far away from standard Puppy. For example, if some people want OpenOffice, then provide a clean reliable petget for it so they can have it with a couple of clicks; don't force everyone else, who do not want it, to load down their hardware with it.

Same goes for browser choices. I came from Firefox/Thunderbird in the Windows arena. When I got here I was somewhat irritated with Seamonkey, but it kinda grows on you, and now I prefer it. Particularly, in the area of user interface for internet searches - I hate typing my search in that little Firefox box. Let Firefox users get it through a petget. If Firefox is made standard, then provide a petget for us Seamonkey fans. Heck, why have a browser as standard at all (besides Dillo)? Make them all available through petgets!

Last edited by PaulBx1 on Wed 21 Feb 2007, 12:52; edited 1 time in total
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jam


Joined: 14 Jul 2006
Posts: 245

PostPosted: Wed 21 Feb 2007, 12:51    Post subject: Puppy Encryption  

I wholeheartedly agree with PaulBx1 regarding the encryption option. If I'm carrying around my personal workstation with me, whether it be for personal/business use, it is critical that the information stored is not available for potential ID theft in case of loss.

Paul, can you provide the link to the final edition of the encryption software for WhoDo to consider?

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PaulBx1

Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2308
Location: Wyoming, USA

PostPosted: Wed 21 Feb 2007, 13:01    Post subject:  

Here is what was done for 2.13:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=14114

<later>
Ah, kirk has come out with the 2.14 version:
http://www.puppyos.net/forum/?1172086471

There are two main components: the init script upgrade, and a separate utility to convert an unencrypted pup_save to encrypted.

In the latter component, kirk has done a simple version (see the above thread), while I and others have taken his original version and fleshed it out more:

http://www.puppyos.net/forum/?1170535852

CE fans can try both and see which they prefer, but only one should go into the release.

Last edited by PaulBx1 on Fri 23 Feb 2007, 14:21; edited 1 time in total
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Rhino


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 262
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Wed 21 Feb 2007, 13:40    Post subject:  

Just a quick thought to the bloat issue. I think we should keep Puppy as small as possible so it will work on older hardware, especially since it will be an official Puppy release. A nice option would be to make available and icon (or menu link) that directs to a wiki page on how to install open office if you like (either dotpet or .sfs) same goes for CUPS, Java, and any other big packages. We have many of the big applications organized on the main wiki page already.

There are a lot of beautification issues, but that cannot be solved easily since everyone has different likes/dislikes and could lead to a lot of bloat. Just urging some caution about adding too much. If I want a huge distro, I think I could find a couple over at Distrowatch Very Happy IceWM or XFCE4 would be great as an alternative to JWM just for appearance, but JWM can be made to look pretty decent with new themes and wallpapers.

Keep up the great work team! I will be glad to help in any way someone needs, just let me know and I'll do what I can.

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Sit Heel Speak


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2595
Location: downwind

PostPosted: Wed 21 Feb 2007, 15:59    Post subject:  

"Viz." means "with regard to," not "namely" or "specifically." WhoDo is thinking of "i.e."...

My shortlist:

1. Without a local-compile-based rather than a binary-based distribution system, and checks on dependency-proliferation, Puppy is doomed by its own rapid, flexible evolutionary multiculturalism. So, we either take lvds's suggestion and go over to Lunar, or we kidnap Rene Rebe's dog and order him (Rene, not the dog) to change the name of T2 to something with 3 or more letters OR ELSE...so that it can be found in our forum's search engine.

2. Just clone Muppy 007 (Firefox, IceWM with Ctrl-Esc and theme-switcher) with all the nifty contributions since, as detailed on Barry's development news log, except make it able to run in 64MB. With PFind as a main menu entry. With SCSI native support in the init script and main .sfs rather than in zdrv_215.sfs. And make Alt-Tab be last-in-first-out like Win98SE. And bring back Run at the bottom of the main menu. Tronkel has articulated perfectly why I prefer Firefox over Seamonkey at the present time, at http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=15648

3. Force everything to open from an rxvt window script with ldd, or else with script logs in /initrd/mnt/dev_save, so newbies can tell us why it crashed without troubling us with inept Klingon or expecting us to be psychic.
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laptopnewbee

Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 165

PostPosted: Wed 21 Feb 2007, 20:11    Post subject:  

Rickrandom wrote:
What I wondered was whether we could at least divide the testing/debugging process into a number of categories and get volunteers to test a category that is their own particular field of interest. The categories might be:

rick, you suggest wireless as one possible catagory. i don't think that even a half dozen testers could cover that catagory. i personally have 2 wifi cards, and have been fighting with one of them trying to get it to work in linux. that's just an example, i would guess that most areas have the same diversity of hardware/user needs to make that approach spotty at best. on the other hand maybe there could be some sort of popup that would advise the user to report troubles instead of taking the noob/inept self view. we really need to encorage the users to read the forum and post their issues even if they think the cause is them being not up to snuff.

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Fox7777


Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 132
Location: Lacey, WA

PostPosted: Thu 22 Feb 2007, 01:12    Post subject: Re: Puppy 2.15CE "Viz" - Development Ideas/Requests
Subject description: Wish list for Puppy 2.15
 

1. Multi user capability similar to that in GrafPup 2.0 so we don't have to run as root all the time.

2. Support for USB webcams such as ID 0ac8:305b Z-Star Microelectronics Corp. or ID 046d:08d7 Logitech, Inc.

3. Support for the Broadcom wireless card, bcmwl5.inf without having to use ndiswrapper.

4. Support for the HP Scanjet 4890 with USB connection, ID 03f0:1b05 Hewlett-Packard

5. A remaster program that includes everything you created. Currently, items such as browser settings are left out.

6. Open Office and Firefox. Puppy 2.10 Pro, http://puppylinux.org/wikka/PuppyPro was very good but it is now due for an update to 2.15.

7. A universal updater that includes PupGets, DopPups and everything else. Puppy can be kept small by leaving out most items except Firefox and Open Office and having a user friendly way to add those items with a universal updater.

Last edited by Fox7777 on Fri 23 Feb 2007, 11:52; edited 1 time in total
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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Thu 22 Feb 2007, 05:13    Post subject:  

Rhino wrote:
Just a quick thought to the bloat issue. I think we should keep Puppy as small as possible so it will work on older hardware, especially since it will be an official Puppy release. A nice option would be to make available and icon (or menu link) that directs to a wiki page on how to install open office if you like (either dotpet or .sfs) same goes for CUPS, Java, and any other big packages. We have many of the big applications organized on the main wiki page already.

Just to fuel the discussion re bloat, here is a link to the current software inclusions list for Puppy 2.15CE Standard Edition and Office Edition. Please cast your eyes over the list and see what can be dropped to reduce the "bloat" without compromising the "fully functional out of the box" objective of the project.

Those who haven't yet done so should visit the Puppy 2.15CE wiki page to check out the current ToDo list. There will be an Alpha release this coming weekend, so suggestions are needed pronto if they are to make it into the Alpha release.

Cheers.
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jam


Joined: 14 Jul 2006
Posts: 245

PostPosted: Thu 22 Feb 2007, 15:14    Post subject: Web-Based Office Apps  

Web-based office apps can further reduce bloat and increase functionality. Google now starting to seriously go head-to-head against MS:

http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=197007903

There was also discussion about a possible acquistion of ThinkFree by Google:

http://www.thinkfree.com/common/main.tfo

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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Thu 22 Feb 2007, 15:36    Post subject:  I'm "listening"...  

I just wanted to post to let all those contributing ideas / suggestions know that I read and digest EVERY post in these threads, even though I don't have time to respond to more than a few.

Your interest, input and ideas are brilliant and more helpful than I can explain here. Thank you one and all, and please keep them coming!

Puppy 2.15CE is slowly taking shape. He might be built like a Rottweiler at the moment, but we'll trim him down to something more like a terrier before we're through. Thanks again, guys

Cheers
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rarsa


Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 3053
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Thu 22 Feb 2007, 16:08    Post subject: Re: I'm "listening"...  

WhoDo wrote:
Puppy 2.15CE is slowly taking shape. He might be built like a Rottweiler at the moment, but we'll trim him down to something more like a terrier before we're through. Thanks again, guys
Specially now that most of us are in sync that 2.15CE will have two "editions":

A) One to continue with the spirit of the official release with things that can be contributed to Barry for the oficial release and

B) One with the original spirit of the CE release with things all that plus things that the community wants to see in.

I'm glad that a single person will be coordinating both as to simplify comunication and coordination. I am sure that WhoDo will keep good track of all the contributions so we can present that list to Barry.

When we did 1.09CE we weren't as thorough on that part and some of the 1.09CE contributions took longer than desired to make it to the official version.

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