Puppy 2.15CE "Viz" - Development Ideas/Requests

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DavidBell
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#256 Post by DavidBell »

Whodo: The webdev.sfs idea was good but, with the limit of 5 files including pup_215.sfs and zdrv_215.sfs
It may be an old idea but I was wondering if it would be better not use sfs to dsitribute application suites, and instead use a system multi-dotpups. It would sort of go
  • * putget manager modified to handle multipups, which are just lists of dotpups. I had a bit of a look, while I don't know anything about scripting it doesn't look too complex.

    * when the user selects a multipup, the manager downloads and installs them one by one in the order of the list, and also creates uninstall data (which I think it does anyway)

    * DL'ed dotpups are stored in a special folder that it checks before re-downloading anything (so a CD/ISO version might have them all there ready).
I see a few things that need several dotpups to get going (eg Python & Beryl recnetly), and to me installing a single multipup in this way would be a lot easier. And it could be set up to deliver entire suites - eg in PuppyCE it could come as the base version with half a dozen multipup lists in Setup, that would install any or all of Web, Multimedia, Office etc (either from download or ISO). Or it might come with all the options installed, and you could use multipup to pull applications out. Finally it would also mean a derivative puppy would just be the standard PuppyCE with a custom multipup list.

I also wondered if all applications, including those aquired by dotpup/multipup were by default put in a separate apps.sfs, then after the user had got all their applications the way they wanted they could just backup apps.sfs. I think this may be do-able wioth multipup because it would free up a spare sfs or two. I don't know if this would really be an advantage though.

Just some thoghts. DB

disciple
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#257 Post by disciple »

I think it would be worth enabling Puppy to open Microsoft .url files. I wrote a script to do it http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=12262 but could never quite figure out the proper way to integrate it with Puppy. I know there are people out there that actually understand mimetypes and everything, and I imagine it would be fairly easy for one of them to do.

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veronicathecow
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#258 Post by veronicathecow »

Hi DavidBell, that was what I also suggested. It could mean less work also for custom Puppy creators when there are new version of the base Puppy (assuming no changes to menu structure etc) Many thanks

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dot
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heavyweight unified request list (HURL)

#259 Post by dot »

May I just chime in here with my 2 cent's worth, adding another long list to a long thread:

Themes:

The Vista theme in the screenshot looks great to me; maybe use amber font colour for better readability. I wouldn't describe it as 'tacky' (KDE Keramik or standard Windows XP are closer to my idea of tackiness), but as someone who tries to get away from Microsoft I must say it is too ... Vista. Can we have something that looks different from either Windows or Mac OS X but is still intuitive? I know that's asking a lot; I'll go with whatever you have to offer.

Filesystem Explorer:

Could you please include XFE in the standard .iso, to replace the similar but uglier uXplor? As a Windows refugee, I'm used to working with tools like XFE; I like to see the filesystem tree and I do become annoyed with ROX's window clutter on occasion.

Codecs:

Isn't Gxine based on the same engine as MPlayer? Their homepage has a link to an extended codec pack, so what if the woof-woof page said something like: "If you need WMV / ASF functionality, get it from here ... Check the laws of your country first"? (I think the VLC has a line of legalese somewhere that says "users are responsible for paying MP3 licence fees to the artists" or something like that.)

Dialup:

One of the things I like about Puppy is that it recognizes my PCMCIA modem, something which Suse 9.3 and Ubuntu Dapper weren't able to do. Getting online via the Connect button, however, just doesn't work, at least on my hardware. Xeznet, on the other hand, does connect me, but not everyone will guess that the 'connect' button is here labelled 'Up'. (Oh, and the Edit button does not save edits, BTW.)

Browser / Mail:

Firefox and Thunderbird for me, please. They're bulky, but I really need the add-on functionality (Scrapbook! DownThemAll! Flashblock! CacheView!). Besides, their sleek looks and good reputation might be comforting for Linux newbies (like myself).

Automounting:

Personally, I'm fine with mounting manually, but I can see the advantage of having checkboxes. While we're at it, could, uhm, 'someone' include an XFE button besides the ROX button? Launching an explorer window from the mounting tool is very useful and I use it a lot.
Maybe there should be a very visible "If you want to access your drives, do this" hint on the woof-woof startup page.

Puppy versions:

My preference would be for one expandable standard version. As a user of Puppy 2.14, I keep seeing posts about how Pizzapup has this and Grafpup does it that way, and what awesome tools Muppy has - I want them all! I'm a bit tired of distro-shopping right now.
I'm fine with Abiword in the standard edition and OOo as a separate download. By the time you reach the limits of Abiword functionality, you will probably have decided that Puppy is for you and worth expanding.
Question to the kernel / startup experts: is it possible to specify and change preferences on which apps to load into RAM at startup?

CD burning:

Gcombust confuses me. Grafburn looks nice, but needs lots of temporary storage to make the .iso and then burn that. TkDVD is simple and does what it's supposed to do once you enlarge the window to find the previously hidden "Burn" button.
I haven't yet tried burning audio CDs, though.

Puppy community:

Can we (= you) work towards having a one-stop Puppy page that directs you to ONE .pup/.pet site, ONE Wiki and ONE Forum?

My contribution:

I don't just want to stand on the sidelines and make requests. I'm afraid my Linux and programming skills are extremely limited, but things I could do include:

- Localization. Give me something to translate into German, or from German into English.
- I don't want to promise too much, but I could try my hand at pawedcasting, like recording audio tutorials (English / German). I just need to find a mic and someone to tell me how to make audio files into a podcast.
- Debugging. I could test the dialup apps, for example. I can use the command line and have issued the ./configure - make - make install commands before, sometimes even successfully.
- Crypto: I'm about to test TrueCrypt (and cryptsetup, maybe), so if you're interested in how it went, I'll report back.


ta, Viz! [<-- sorry about that]

iscraigh
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#260 Post by iscraigh »

Just playing around and I noticed that the remote desktop client was not showing up in the menu. Rdesktop (RC1) is there but the gui appears to be missing.


Craig

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WhoDo
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#261 Post by WhoDo »

iscraigh wrote:Just playing around and I noticed that the remote desktop client was not showing up in the menu. Rdesktop (RC1) is there but the gui appears to be missing.
Yep. Fixed for RC2/Final. If you reinstall the GUI client from dotpup, and then run fixmenus from the console, it will appear where it is supposed to be when you refresh Icewm.

Cheers
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The Alchemist
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#262 Post by The Alchemist »

2.15 looks fantastic, the only thing i´am missing is the possibility to shutdown directly from ICEWM... :lol:

Greats
Thhe Alc

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Lobster
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boxer dog logo on the desktop

#263 Post by Lobster »

8) I think it looks fantastic too.

There is some concern over the (difficult to decipher) boxer dog logo on the desktop and I would suggest we use sea, ask for a new one or . . .?

I do rather like the azul default theme (and I am not hot on the dark themes)

This really is good. Try Viz RC1 or better still the Office version.

:)
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cb88
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#264 Post by cb88 »

I am running puppy 2.25CE rc1 inside virtualbox on xp right now w/ 96Mb ram in the VM very responsive when set to 64mb seamokey (the new theme is really slick) gets sluggish. when I switched back to JWM the menu was out of wack some parts looked normal others really big. Why not just drop jwm? If JWM is for slower pc's then why not use a more minimalistic window manager for those? is there a more lightweight WM than JWM?

As for the boxy puppy logo I like it, the problem is that it needs eyes.

A workaround seems to have been implemented in the case of x not starting (it gives an error message something like choose exit to prompt or try to start x agian).

Make the window frame in Vista Black theme the same color as the taskbar or maybe gradient like the menu(i don't think it should fade into white like the. Taskbar and menu look great!

Let's dump dillo already just installed hv3 and I could view the community form(that is an exellent start) it seemed fast better than dillo.

There are so many advanced things on the virge of being put into puppy that an upgrade of the 2.15 may be needed within a few short months just to make it worth using reletive to the then current official realease.

No rush on the final seriously,
cb88

Thinking of using this as my signature:
Taking Puppy Linux to the limit of perfection. No, we can't get there but we can get infinitely close!

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Lobster
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#265 Post by Lobster »

when I switched back to JWM the menu was out of wack some parts looked normal others really big. Why not just drop jwm? If JWM is for slower pc's then why not use a more minimalistic window manager for those? is there a more lightweight WM than JWM?
JWM is a good compromise on smallness, generic Windows type feel and features. The big sizing in JWM has been put on the bugs page
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Puppy215Bugs
It was decided at the last meeting to use IceWm as the default but include JWM

As for the boxy puppy logo I like it, the problem is that it needs eyes.
You are right - care to add eyes? Know anyone up for it?

:)

Many thanks
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Reggie
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Puppy 2.15 Build as you go.

#266 Post by Reggie »

Well, I would like a 1 Bone Puppy command line puppy that boots and finds CD and the internet, then walks through a text menu of check boxes of each and every little subcomponent.

1. Boots Up
2. Presents Menu Listing
3. You make your selections
4. That, and only that loads up.
5. Burn a new CD or install to hard drive / USB flash drive.

Done, just what the USER wants.

Each Subcomponent should have 2 - 4 sentences describing what the component does.

Then Even a newbie can 'Build his own' Puppy.

Items would be grouped:
Graphics, Windows Manager, Command Line Tools, Sound, Multimedia, Applications.

Once the user has gone down the list, the selections are all loaded up, ready to run, or burns to a new .iso live CD, or ready to install into a USB key drive or hard drive. All the extra stuff left out.

All the packages can come from the Bigger Base CD image, or download from the internet.

I'd like this in order to build 'custom' puppies - just plays music, no web browser, no graphics editor, no email, etc. Just for DVDs, Just for Graphics. Remove the ability to Add new packages for educational workstations, Etc.

This would empower puppy for many new users, who want to build a super small install without any extra space wasted. Hopefully it would shrink size and increase speed for some uses, since less storage and less ram would be used.

Super easy to use - because of the better explanations of what all those little packages are... just arrow, spacebar, and enter (point and click with the keyboard, text menu first, no mouse support / GUI at first startup.)

What do you think? :?:

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Nathan F
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#267 Post by Nathan F »

What do you think? Question
Awesome, but think in terms of months worth of development. IE nopt for 2.15ce.

Nathan
Bring on the locusts ...

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veronicathecow
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#268 Post by veronicathecow »

Reggie's idea seems well worth exploring to me...

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bobn9lvu
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#269 Post by bobn9lvu »

I second that :!: :!:
It would make Puppy one mean little machine. :shock: :D
AND it would be light years ahead of any other small distro. :wink:

Bob 8)

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cb88
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#270 Post by cb88 »

Put the maximixe minimize button back on Gxine :( (was it's removal intentional?) its a pain without it. Even kind of freaks me out :shock: (maybe I don't quite freak out :lol: ) . Like whoa what happened to the other button. I really hope this isn't happening in any other apps.
cb88

PS: Yes, my avatar is a jet powered toyota. unless i am mistaken it sold for about $19000 on ebay 8) I actually drive an acura and can't afford jet fuel. Maybe Lobster could use it as a basis for his time machine top speed 190 mph twice the speed previous speculation has deemed nessesary.
Taking Puppy Linux to the limit of perfection. meanwhile try "puppy pfix=duct_tape" kernel parem eater.
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#271 Post by Lobster »

cb88 wrote:Maybe Lobster could use it as a basis for his time machine top speed 190 mph twice the speed previous speculation has deemed nessesary.
The universe is expanding (quite fast too). Moving (physically) to the same spot but a different time, puts you in space. Part of the reason for starting with broadcasting to the past or future is to make this less of an issue. Once a link of future to past relay broadcasts are set up, we will have the knowledge basis on how best to proceed.

http://www.zen45800.zen.co.uk/tmxx/dido.html
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WhoDo
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Re: heavyweight unified request list (HURL)

#272 Post by WhoDo »

dot wrote:Filesystem Explorer:

Could you please include XFE in the standard .iso, to replace the similar but uglier uXplor? As a Windows refugee, I'm used to working with tools like XFE; I like to see the filesystem tree and I do become annoyed with ROX's window clutter on occasion.
Xfe was already IN, but due to a glitch in compiling from the Unleashed package, it didn't show up in the menu. That has been fixed for the next release.
dot wrote:Codecs:

Isn't Gxine based on the same engine as MPlayer? Their homepage has a link to an extended codec pack, so what if the woof-woof page said something like: "If you need WMV / ASF functionality, get it from here ... Check the laws of your country first"? (I think the VLC has a line of legalese somewhere that says "users are responsible for paying MP3 licence fees to the artists" or something like that.)
I would prefer if all multimedia was contained in a single squash (sfs) file. Then the issue of proprietary codecs becomes moot, AFAIK. They become a separate download by each individual user, which keeps the licensing intact.
dot wrote:Browser / Mail:

Firefox and Thunderbird for me, please. They're bulky, but I really need the add-on functionality (Scrapbook! DownThemAll! Flashblock! CacheView!). Besides, their sleek looks and good reputation might be comforting for Linux newbies (like myself).
In the upcoming web_215.sfs that will be available with RC1 Office Edition. Have you tried the new version of Seamonkey in RC1 Standard Edition yet? I actually prefer it to Firefox myself.
dot wrote:Puppy versions:

My preference would be for one expandable standard version. As a user of Puppy 2.14, I keep seeing posts about how Pizzapup has this and Grafpup does it that way, and what awesome tools Muppy has - I want them all! I'm a bit tired of distro-shopping right now.
I'm fine with Abiword in the standard edition and OOo as a separate download. By the time you reach the limits of Abiword functionality, you will probably have decided that Puppy is for you and worth expanding.
Question to the kernel / startup experts: is it possible to specify and change preferences on which apps to load into RAM at startup?
Search the forum for Sunburnt's posts on his sfs file GUI bootloader, that lets the user determine what flavor of Puppy they will have today! :P
dot wrote:My contribution:

I don't just want to stand on the sidelines and make requests. I'm afraid my Linux and programming skills are extremely limited, but things I could do include:

- Localization. Give me something to translate into German, or from German into English.
- I don't want to promise too much, but I could try my hand at pawedcasting, like recording audio tutorials (English / German). I just need to find a mic and someone to tell me how to make audio files into a podcast.
- Debugging. I could test the dialup apps, for example. I can use the command line and have issued the ./configure - make - make install commands before, sometimes even successfully.
- Crypto: I'm about to test TrueCrypt (and cryptsetup, maybe), so if you're interested in how it went, I'll report back.
These are mostly things that fall into Lobster's baileywick. I'm sure he'd be delighted to get the help you're offering here. Thank you.
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#273 Post by WhoDo »

cb88 wrote:Put the maximixe minimize button back on Gxine Sad (was it's removal intentional?) its a pain without it. Even kind of freaks me out Shocked (maybe I don't quite freak out Laughing ) . Like whoa what happened to the other button. I really hope this isn't happening in any other apps.
Put it back? I didn't take it out! The fact it is missing is a function of the updated version of Gxine. Check out the new configuration options and you can begin to see why they decided it might be redundant. :P

Cheers
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#274 Post by WhoDo »

The Alchemist wrote:2.15 looks fantastic, the only thing i´am missing is the possibility to shutdown directly from ICEWM... :lol:
Hmmmm...not sure what you mean by this. Menu>Logout>Shutdown is about as "direct(sic)" as it's ever been. :?
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WhoDo
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#275 Post by WhoDo »

cb88 wrote:when set to 64mb seamokey (the new theme is really slick) gets sluggish. when I switched back to JWM the menu was out of wack some parts looked normal others really big.
A problem with incorrect size of certain menu icons. Icewm corrects but JWM doesn't. It will be fixed in the next release.
cb88 wrote: As for the boxy puppy logo I like it, the problem is that it needs eyes.
Maybe. It was created from an early M$ Longhorn background that had a stylised steer. I just took the parts of the steer and turned them into a puppy shape. Eyes might work. Maybe getting rid of the logo altogether is even better. We'll see what happens when the Community #irc has its say.
cb88 wrote: A workaround seems to have been implemented in the case of x not starting (it gives an error message something like choose exit to prompt or try to start x agian).
Actually its a fancier version of xwin created by Pizzasgood to overcome that sort of problem.
cb88 wrote: Make the window frame in Vista Black theme the same color as the taskbar or maybe gradient like the menu(i don't think it should fade into white like the. Taskbar and menu look great!
You can do this to your own taste, if you like. The theme is at /root/.icewm/themes/Vista_Black ... all you have to do is modify the various parts of the window frame to taste using Gimp or something similar.
cb88 wrote: Let's dump dillo already just installed hv3 and I could view the community form(that is an exellent start) it seemed fast better than dillo.
Dillo works and hv3 is still immature, IMHO. This was meant to be a consolidation edition i.e. get rid of bugs and usability issues while adding look-and-feel tweaks. I'm sure the community didn't want to introduce a whole new set of potential bugs in what we hope will be a showpiece for Puppy in the wider Linux community. hv3 will wait a little longer. Maybe Barry will include it in 2.16; who knows.
cb88 wrote: There are so many advanced things on the virge of being put into puppy that an upgrade of the 2.15 may be needed within a few short months just to make it worth using reletive to the then current official realease.

No rush on the final seriously,
Well yes and no. Barry wants to release 2.16 Alpha soon, but doesn't want to bring that out until 2.15CE Final has surfaced. He is taking a liesurely route with 2.16 Alpha, and we're trying to accelerate 2.15CE Final. Hopefully it will all come out in an appropriate timeframe.

Although there is a "features freeze" currently in effect for 2.15CE, I would be willing to ignore that for the right usability feature, such as Sunburnt's GUI boot manager, or an update to rarsa's network wizard, etc. Everything else for the next edition will be contained in external "plug-in" squash files that are not subject to the freeze.
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