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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
Puppy 2.15CE "Viz" - Development Ideas/Requests
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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Tue 06 Mar 2007, 21:43    Post subject:  

Pizzasgood wrote:
gxine and gaim need Mozilla libraries, which are missing. The ones needed are:
/usr/lib/mozilla/libnspr4.so
/usr/lib/mozilla/libnss3.so
/usr/lib/mozilla/libplc4.so
/usr/lib/mozilla/libplds4.so
/usr/lib/mozilla/libsmime3.so
/usr/lib/mozilla/libsoftokn3.chk
/usr/lib/mozilla/libsoftokn3.so
/usr/lib/mozilla/libssl3.so

+ /usr/lib/mozilla/libmozjs.so Shocked - all of the above are included in the attached dotpup. There goes my sub-100Mb beta... Crying or Very sad

Pizzasgood wrote:
Also, if you symlink /usr/X11R7/lib/libXcursor.so.1 to /usr/X11R7/lib/libXcursor.so in the Xorg package, adding custom cursor themes will work.
Done for Beta2. Thanks, PG.

Pizzasgood wrote:
I about fell out of my chair after clicking "my computer" and nothing happening immediately. That was before I realized you set the "my computer" icon to MUT and moved the link to /root to "my documents". Incidentally, the "my computer" icon is the same one I have on my "home" icon, in the same place. So I felt even more disoriented than I should have. Wink

Just a note for the sake of political correctness - drives has become "Computer" not "my computer" and home has become "Documents" not "my documents". I wanted familiar, not identical. Glad you didn't fall down. I'm not covered for public liability on this project! Laughing

Pizzasgood wrote:

Speaking of icons, they look great. I like that you used a separate color for mountpoints. I sometimes do that on my system. It helps distinguish them.

Check the Puppy 2.15: Look and Feel thread in the next few days. I have my eye on some really special - and unique - icons that are being developed by an acquaintance from another distro. They'll blow you away with their simplicity and striking appeal while being unlike anything you've ever seen before. Maybe we'll be able to do a deal for Puppy 2.15CE Final, if everyone else likes them too!

Pizzasgood wrote:

The icons in the menu aren't so great looking. From my own experience, they're the most annoying to change too. Two ways: change the image itself, or what the .desktop file points to. Changing the actual image will affect all things that load the image, so sometimes it's more effective. But sometimes you change it enough that some other reference to it doesn't make sense anymore, so you have to be careful with radical changes, and do those in the .desktop file.

Still working on these. I've got many of the icons from the Level 1 menu under control, but those in Level 2 are still ordinary. Give me time and I'll whip them around too.

Pizzasgood wrote:

Opera seems to have saved your session, WhoDo. You might want to clear the cache and history before the final release. Also, I didn't look so you may have done this already, but default bookmarks to important Puppy stuff would be cool.

Actually, Opera defaults to loading the last used page, and that's where that has come from. I'll change it to loading home page first and that should fix things. I used Dougal's remaster script to include some last minute changes, so all personal settings should be gone. I will be including Puppy Home and Puppy Discussion Forum in the default bookmarks. I did that for the Alpha but didn't have time to mess with it for the Beta1. Beta2 will be more of a consolidation and stuff like that should be fixed by then.

Pizzasgood wrote:

Finally, and this applies to Barry's Puppies too, Gaim auto-connects to #puppylinux. This annoys me a lot. I don't use Gaim much, but when I run it, I don't want to be thrown into a chat room. I want to be given a screen where I can choose to log in with my (hypothetical) msn or yahoo account. A better solution would be to disable the auto-login thing and just leave the #puppylinux thing as a pre-configed option. I don't know much about configuring Gaim to help with that though.

I'll look and see what I can do.

Pizzasgood wrote:

Overall, very nice so far! Smile
And in < 100MB already. Excellent.

Thanks, but not any more after your little test! Razz The 2.3Mb of Mozilla libraries took care of that little milestone pretty quickly! *sigh* Oh well, there's always next time! Very Happy
215ce-missing-libs.pup
Description  Missing mozilla libs for gxine and gaim.
pup

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Filename  215ce-missing-libs.pup 
Filesize  571.47 KB 
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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Tue 06 Mar 2007, 22:01    Post subject:  

I should have scanned over the list I posted before posting. Those are the ones I included in Pizzapup to keep Gaim happy. I forgot that Pizzapup doesn't have Gxine, so I didn't have the libmozjs.so.

"computer" and "documents" are shorter anyways.

I'll keep an eye out for the new icons. Very Happy

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alienjeff


Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Posts: 2291
Location: Winsted, CT - USA

PostPosted: Tue 06 Mar 2007, 23:02    Post subject: An errant possessive?
Subject description: v2.15CE "ownership"
 

WhoDo wrote:
There goes my sub-100Mb beta...


Your beta or the community's beta?

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iscraigh

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 276

PostPosted: Wed 07 Mar 2007, 00:26    Post subject:  

Alright did I miss something when did the switch to Opera come I thought the overwhelming opinion on the forums was for firefox. I don't mind Opera but I prefer firefox my banking site won't work with opera, Opera doesn't have near the support or extensions that firefox does. I know people that love Opera love it it is fast and small but my impression was that the majority of people in the community prefer firefox.....perhaps I am wrong. putting aside my preference for Firefox I did an unscientific community pole. I did a forum search for Firefox, 1000 posts...Opera 785 posts. Okay that could mean that firefox just has more problems. Is there a way to see if the firefox.pup gets downloaded more or less than Opera. I can always install Firefox and remaster so it is not a deal breaker if the majority of the community prefers Opera. I am not convinced that the community prefers Opera, I know some of the developers do and ultimately it will be there decision, Just like an elected official I hope that they represent the constituents not themselves(I mean no insult comparing your hardwork and decisions to politicians Wink ). So I have offered my preference but fully support your work and will give it a good run around tommorow.

Craig
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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Wed 07 Mar 2007, 01:01    Post subject: Re: An errant possessive?
Subject description: v2.15CE "ownership"
 

alienjeff wrote:
WhoDo wrote:
There goes my sub-100Mb beta...


Your beta or the community's beta?

Yes, indeed, it is the "community's beta", into which I have put considerable time and effort and in whose success I have a not inconsiderable personal investment.

I'm sorry if I get just a tad possessive from time to time, especially when things don't go to plan. It's the product of those long and painful hours behind the scenes helping to build what others want but are unable to achieve by themselves, for often excellent reasons.

Thank you for reminding me, alienjeff.

Cheers
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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Wed 07 Mar 2007, 01:12    Post subject:  

iscraigh wrote:
Alright did I miss something when did the switch to Opera come I thought the overwhelming opinion on the forums was for firefox.

It is, and Firefox will be in the Office edition. It is just too big for the Standard edition to remain under 100Mb, which is also a strong community preference. I have asked for contributors to create a Firefox/Thunderbird/Java/Flash squash file (sfs) plugin, so even those with Standard edition could enjoy the best. That's coming, I hope fairly soon. Until then, please chill out, ok? Wink After all, there's many a beta between alpha and omega!

iscraigh wrote:
Just like an elected official I hope that they represent the constituents not themselves(I mean no insult comparing your hardwork and decisions to politicians Wink ). So I have offered my preference but fully support your work and will give it a good run around tommorow.

Yes, the will of the constituents - ALL of the constituents - will prevail if I have any say over the matter. At the moment I'm working much harder than any politician to deliver on something promised, rather than simply paying lip-service to it and making the inevitable excuses when it doesn't materialise.

You may, in complete safety and security, turn off the [panic] button for the time being! Laughing
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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Wed 07 Mar 2007, 01:26    Post subject:  

Actually, in keeping with the "wow" factor, I think Firefox would look better. Opera looks good at first, but as soon as you open a menu, your gut starts to squirm and your lunch gets uppity. It feels kinda like being in '95. Firefox, on the other hand, would match the GTK theme (which is downright beautiful).

Firefox also wouldn't need QT installed, which makes including Opera not so size-efficient as many would hope. I haven't done the math, maybe it's still smaller. But if it is, it probably isn't by much.

I don't really have an opinion on which would be better. I'm inclined to think that the majority would choose Firefox, because they're more familiar with it, and it's open source. But neither one really matters to me.

Also, using Opera in a beta gives people a chance to try it out, and see how it fits. Like how WhoDo put in a truck load of themes in the alpha, so people could try them out. It's like test-driving a car, or trying on a pair of pants.

EDIT: Ah, I see you posted before I clicked "reply" WhoDo.

EDIT 2: iscraigh: have you tried having Opera claim it's IE or Mozilla? Sometimes that helps.

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iscraigh

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 276

PostPosted: Wed 07 Mar 2007, 02:34    Post subject:  

Ye I have tried getting Opera to work by claiming to be IE no go. I have Opera and Firefox installed on my main machine (Ubuntu) but I run puppy on my kids machine and my laptop. I always find myself going back to Firefox though but I bow to the will of the masses. On the kids machine I will have to stay small as it runs off a usb stick but I may run the 215ce on the laptop. can I ask what extra do we get in the 215ce vs 214 addition? where are the extra 15mb's? Icemw i'm sure plus themes...Looks great love it. If I started with litepup are all the other parts of 215ce (updated scripts, icewm, etc) easily installable through petget.



Not hitting a panic button; just surprised I thought Firefox had already been chosen. Opera is a fine browser I have just always had more challenges getting java/flash/media player extensions to just work with it. I will give it a fair try in the beta and see what I have trouble getting to work.


Craig
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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Wed 07 Mar 2007, 03:16    Post subject:  

iscraigh wrote:
can I ask what extra do we get in the 215ce vs 214 addition? where are the extra 15mb's? Icemw i'm sure plus themes...Looks great love it. If I started with litepup are all the other parts of 215ce (updated scripts, icewm, etc) easily installable through petget.

Installable? Yes. Easily? Hmmmm...not really. Most of what separates 2.15CE from 2.14, apart from the look and feel things, involves updated versions of applications and scripts, some of which have made their way into unleashed and some not yet. Some key differences are:
Code:
Opera instead of Seamonkey suite
JWM plus Icewm (only JWM in 2.14)
MU-Gtk-Themechooser and LINsta theme
MU's Puppy Software Installer standard
MU's Trayicons quick application launcher
Pizzasgood's Pupbegone package remover standard
Defaults Wizard for easily changing default apps
Fox calculator replaces several others
Xfe File Explorer for multi-pane file management
Xmms player for music as standard
4 x new games - Euchre, Seahaven solitaire, Yahtzee, Hearts
Tweaked rc. startup scripts
Latest versions of Geany, Grafburn, PRename (was PBrename), Isomaster, Pfind file finder, Pupctorrent, Puppy sound mixer, Soxgui, blinky for Icewm (network activity monitor) and Freememapplet.


Whew! No wonder I'm struggling to get down to Barry's size of 86Mb!

iscraigh wrote:

Not hitting a panic button; just surprised I thought Firefox had already been chosen. Opera is a fine browser I have just always had more challenges getting java/flash/media player extensions to just work with it. I will give it a fair try in the beta and see what I have trouble getting to work.

Firefox is definitely the preferred browser, but it may only find its home as an sfs file rather than living inside the pup_215.sfs itself. That's like having your cake and eating it too, because it won't impact on RAM that way, but is still like lightning to load. We'll see what happens over the next few weeks. At the moment I'm going to struggle to meet the 10 March deadline for 2.15CE Office edition unless someone comes along and offers to build the Firefox sfs.

Cheers.
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lvds


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 315
Location: Near the window

PostPosted: Wed 07 Mar 2007, 04:33    Post subject:  

Hi,

I have been testing a lot of things lasts weeks and i would like to submit the following ideas. I haven't found the following in the wikki nor forums.

- I think a CE release must have a really reliable multimedia support and from what i have read last days, it takes MB of space to add the fine libraries for it plus the right codecs. Why not choose VLC instead of gxine+XMMS+mozilla libs+codecs ? ...Moreover a firefox/mozilla plugins exist of VLC.

- can we have a kernel with bootsplash support please ? So we could insert a graphic bootsplash.

- the games takes weight. I am not really ok with adding weight for not so good games, but i know of one or two which are very good and lightweight so we could use them in place of the old ones. The games i am thinking i have seen them on other puppy distro so i could be ok to add, there was PENTE from Gliezl distro (excuse me if i spelled it bad, Lady) , and a mahjong but i can't remember right now where i found them. Very good replacements instead of the old games IMHO.

Best regards
Laurent

Last edited by lvds on Fri 09 Mar 2007, 07:39; edited 2 times in total
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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Wed 07 Mar 2007, 04:50    Post subject:  

lvds wrote:
- I think a CE edition must have a really reliable multimedia support and from what i have read last days, it takes MB of space to add the fine libraries for it plus the right codecs. Why not choose VLC instead of gxine+XMMS+mozilla libs+codecs ? ...Moreover a firefox/mozilla plugins exist of VLC.

I'm looking for someone to create a squash file add on for multimedia, in which case you could almost add whatever you like within reason. It's the only way to give everyone a fair selection of what they want without bloating Puppy up to normal distro size, which won't work well without heaps of RAM. If you would care to give it a shot, sunburnt has created an excellent squash file creation GUI to make the job easier.

lvds wrote:

- can we have a kernel with bootsplash support please ? So we could insert a graphic bootsplash.

Unless I've misunderstood, our standard kernel already has support for a bootsplash option. There was some talk from Nathan of Grafpup fame about creating one for CE. I'm all for it, myself.

lvds wrote:

- the games takes weight. I am not really ok with adding weight for not so good games, but i know of one or two which are very good and lightweight so we could use them in place of the old ones. The games i am thinking i have seen them on other puppy distro so i could be ok to add, there was PENTE from gliezl distro (excuse me if i spelled it bad, Lady) , and a mahjong but i can't remember right now where i found them. Very good replacements instead of the old games IMHO.

I've added Yahtzee, Hearts, Seahaven solitaire and Euchre because they don't take much space and they offer Windows refugees an incentive to play with Puppy. There is also a tkGames pack that includes many, many more games that I could include with the Office Edition. That is under consideration and subject to size restrictions to retain Puppy's character and uniqueness. I had to remove the magnificent Supertux on that latter score, unfortunately.

Hope that helps, Laurent. Thanks for your input. It is much appreciated.

Cheers
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lvds


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 315
Location: Near the window

PostPosted: Wed 07 Mar 2007, 05:35    Post subject:  

- About games: they have to be choosen very carefully, not just put as much as we can, or select them "because these 5 bad games weight less than this good one" ... (it is not what have been said, i am just pointing to common errors)

I recall there was a discussion where someone stated he would have very much prefered inclusion of Tuxpaint and gCompris (kids software) instead of old games usually unused by most of people ; and i agree, as a lot also have before me.

- About multimedia, i think whatever will be add in SFS addon packs, a few things have to be in the main pack, and multimedia is really the one pack needed not on a addon.

Let me explain, when you want to load a addon you need to insert the CD in the drive (or am i wrong ?!) so how will i be able to listen to a music CD if my puppyCE is yet using the CDROM drive ?!

As far as i have tested, VLC seems to be the best choice because of full features and weight comparison.

-I would like to say a word about window manager but it is not related to look and feel. I think one of the most important thing for a window mnager is to have a panel configuration so user can change everything, from look and feel, to menu customization, BY HIS OWN (not to rely on a community of programmers nor to wait for a next edition). I think as programmers we need to give back the freedom for customization to the end user. Set them free, they will love you for this beyond words.

To my knowledge i've only seen XFCE to have a complete configuration panel and i have not found the same possibilities for others window managers. If ICEWM should be choose, or whatever wndow manager, be sure to include a graphic configuration panel inside, this is very important.

- Another thing is a communauty is multi-lingual so a CE puppy should have a strong ability to switch from a language to another based on locales. Many of the distro i have tested have a locales script broken or not fully working or just simply doing nothing. Pizzapup have a nice one but this is not enough. Try to switch from english to french and you will still be in english for many softwares. But i know this is not a simple problem easy to solve.

I hope a CE work will tend to solve this in the most beautiful way one programmer could imagine. If we release a CE and every country have to modify it again to apply a lot of mods for internationalization, it would seem to me as a "small" communauty... The smart way would be to have a user choose for his language, and the localisation script connects to a server and download the correct translated files, and setup a few variables correctly. User would only have to remaster to burn a cd after that.

It reminds me to tell within ROX there is an option to select so ROX reacts to LOCALES variable instead of setting up a defined language. (Pizzasgood if you read me, you forgot this one)

I recall Xubuntu live-cd (or was it XFCE live-cd...) to have such a very good process of translation for the whole distro. One click, two minutes, and a few messages scrolling on my screen later and the whole distro was translated in french (include firefox and thunderbird etc.) It just was GREAT and makes everybody WOWed !!

Internationalization is one of the main signs of a complete community work. Something telling everybody that whatever country we came from we worked in harmony or at least with respect for each others. THIS is a community. Wink

Best regards,
Laurent.

Last edited by lvds on Wed 07 Mar 2007, 11:19; edited 1 time in total
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puppyfan12


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed 07 Mar 2007, 08:06    Post subject: the new beta1  

I've loaded up the beta1 release and thought we had better tackle the discussion of licensing issues before we hit an "official" release. I've started a new thread specifically for licensing issues.
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cb88


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 1169
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed 07 Mar 2007, 10:34    Post subject: Just ran 2.15 CE in Virtualbox Emulator  

Puppy 2.15CE in virtualbox emulator.
keyboard and xorgwizard run then stops at this

1>Type 'xwin' to start Xvesa graphics sever.
2>cat: /ect/videomode: no such file or directory
3>cat: /ect/videomode: no such file or directory
4>Starting X with video mode and mouse psaux...
some time passes about 20-30 sec.
5>Exited from X. Type "xwin [fvwm95: jwm]" to restart X ([] mean optional).
6>(To shutdown PC type "poweroff', to reboot PC type "reboot')
7>
8>cat: /ect/TZ: No such file or directory

line 8 also appears just before the keyboard selection wizard starts.
I can start X by typing xwin but this is annoying.
might leave a noob bewildered. Has this occured out side an emulator?
this occured in the alpha as well. not in 2.14 or 2.12 that I recall.
not an issue after there is a pupsave.2fs file
but the error sill appears while puppy is loading.
hope this helps,
cb88
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lvds


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 315
Location: Near the window

PostPosted: Wed 07 Mar 2007, 11:36    Post subject:  

...By the way, i forgot to tell i completely agree with Pizzasgood and others about Firefox instead of Opera. From what i have tested, installing Opera does not gain weight because it needs a lot of external things and libraries to give the same as Firefox.

the same is about gxine+xmms+mozilla libs+codecs+etc... versus VLC as VLC can do it all in one.

In the end if you couple firefox+vlc you have a killer app and a real gain in memory. Moreover it has to be added to the record that a lot of people uses extensions for firefox and will have hard time to live without them. Some extensions for firefox are especially good ones.

Best regards,
Laurent.

Last edited by lvds on Fri 09 Mar 2007, 07:41; edited 2 times in total
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