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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge
Wishlist for network wizard
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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Springer


Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 52
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Wed 28 Feb 2007, 05:08    Post subject: How about network security, too?  

I haven't checked out the 2.15 beta (or even 2.14, for that matter) so if this is already handled outside the network wizard, my apologies...

I would *love* to see Puppy continue to make the commonly-needed things that are hard on most distros dead easy to do in Puppy. A perfect example would be the addition of PPTP and IPSec connections in the network wizard. I know these can be a hairball in some unusual situations, but in reality, there are a few configs that will work with most gateways out there. For instance, if PPTP works with MS PPTP and popular open source server distros like m0n0wall/pfSense or Ubuntu Server, then that's good enough for the wizard.

Using a PPTP or IPSec connectin to secure wireless is becomeing more common as people realize that the ususal setup of a wireless router or AP on the *inside* of their firewall makes the firewall pretty pointless. Wireless needs to be treated link the net at large, but you also need to be able to join the local net after correctly authenticating.

This would be a killer differentiator for Puppy, and would move it ahead of even the really big distros. (I write this from within Ubuntu Desktop, which is HUGE - it must have taken two solid hours to install, and really doesn't *appear* to offer that much more for a desktop user than Puppy 2.10Pro!)

FWIW, it would be nice not to have to add a VNC server for use with WinIIvnc to every Puppy version. Am I the only one that knows how incredibly useful WinIIvnc is for using a primo keyboard and mouse plugged into a Windows box?
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rarsa


Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 3053
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed 28 Feb 2007, 10:40    Post subject:  

(Disclaimer: After re-reading my post it seems a little bit rough. That is not the tone I wrote it with. I am just presenting my thoughts. All contributions to this thread are welcome)

First:

I believe that the VPN connections and the Network wizard are completelly different animals.

Of course the Wizard could try to implement the VPN or for that matter include a browser or a samba configurator, hey if that's in, why not Remote desktop and VNC?... Those ideas generaly lead to bloatware.

The purpose of the network wizard is to connect you to the network, not to configure what you want to transmit trough that network. That is what the Network submenu in the main menu is for.

Second:
Cisco's IPSec is proprietary and it is illegal to redistribute without the proper license.

vpnd is an alternative but it does not allow encrypted passwords because Cisco's encryption is proprietary and closed.

I cannot comment on PPTP as I've never had to use it.

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tempestuous

Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 5218
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Wed 28 Feb 2007, 23:16    Post subject:  

PPTP VPN definitely works in Puppy, in earlier versions anyway. Setup instructions -
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=42140#42140
Puppy 2.14 does contain the necessary ppp_mppe module in its zdrv file.

And forum member HairyWill contributed a pptpconfig package here -
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=12003
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donde

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Fri 02 Mar 2007, 13:29    Post subject: network wizard
Subject description: Separate wireless from LAN steps
 

rarsa
I got wireless laptop to work once with WPA, did something and can't connect anymore. I think you should separate wireless from LAN steps. Not sure what the various "saves" mean. Have just one save at very end when one is satisified and all works. Also, no indication how to delete a profile. Also, after setting up WPA profile, not sure when to "scan" or "use this profile." I think eth1, (my wireless) should say wlan1 to mean wireless. Need more step by step and indication of success, failure, and what to do.
Thanks...donde
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Springer


Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 52
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Mon 05 Mar 2007, 19:39    Post subject:  

rarsa said:
I believe that the VPN connections and the Network wizard are completelly different animals.

They're only completely different animals to techno-geeks that understand how the code works. To a USER trying to connect to a network, the distinction is unnecessary and confusing.

IMO, a "Network connection wizard" should make as much of the process as possible "automagic" - the goal is to get as close to "one-click" network connectivity as possible - cleanly, quickly, and simply. This is *exactly* the philosophy Puppy excels at. I well understand that doing this is not entirely trivial, but the tools at hand are now mature enough to give it a good go, and making this sort of thing automatic would be *highly* valuable to those who need a good OS for remote workers and Road Warriors, which I would expect to be natural targets of the Puppy philosophy. If CE is really in Puppy's future, as Barry has said, then this is something that should be seriously considered.

Of course the Wizard could try to implement the VPN or for that matter include a browser or a samba configurator, hey if that's in, why not Remote desktop and VNC?... Those ideas generaly lead to bloatware.

C'mon, obviously there is a point of bloatware, and I'm more oppsed to that than almost anyone here. But if you're connecting to a remote VPN network over a public WiFi link in a cafe or hotel (a very common scenario), then you *must* sort out both the local network connection AND the VPN before you can really do anything. That means putting them together makes a whole lot of sense.

Further, there are now a whole lot of people (like me) who now need VPN access through a firewall even for HOME wireless networking - any other wireless setup pretty much opens up your whole network to bad people within wireless range. (You'd be surprised how many BIG companies have great firewalls that are essentially bypassed by wireless.)
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Springer


Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 52
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Mon 05 Mar 2007, 19:42    Post subject:  

tempestuous: THANK YOU!

I hadn't found that info before. I'd just like to make "reasonable" common use as easy as possible - smallness and rich function are Puppy's hallmarks. I still think adding at least common VPN config to the network config wizard makes a ton of sense from a user point of view...
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rarsa


Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 3053
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Mon 05 Mar 2007, 22:27    Post subject:  

Springer wrote:
They're only completely different animals to techno-geeks that understand how the code works.
IT has nothing to do with code. VPN is one of the many applications that run over a network connection.

I use VPN all the time so I understand the need for VPN. I've even contributed to a thread. I just explained what were the problems of including it on the liveCD.

If you have a problem with IPSec being proprietary, take it with Cisco, not with Puppy. We cannot do what we are not allowed by law to do.

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http://www.kwlug.org/blog/48 Covering my Linux How-to
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Springer


Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 52
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Tue 06 Mar 2007, 19:30    Post subject:  

No offense, but this isn't as hard as you're making it sound - at least legally.

There are completely open IPsec (and PPTP) implementations that don't use anything proprietary from Cisco or anyone else.

I mentioned the m0n0wall and pfSense firewalls in my first message, both of which have open versions of both protocols on the server side. And of course, there are also many open source and non-proprietary clients available for use with both protocols as well. Check the docs on those sites (or search sourceforge) for more info. We're not locked down by Cisco on this!

And SSL VPN support would be really interesting, too...

Granted, I'm aiming for a killer "Business Puppy" that can really replace windows on small and medium business laptops that don't have and can't (or don't want to) afford all the IT staff fiddling required to get this basic stuff working out-of-the-box. I personally think that's a huge userbase dying for an open source product to address its needs.
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mysticmarks


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 157
Location: California

PostPosted: Fri 09 Mar 2007, 21:59    Post subject: ascii
Subject description: ascii
 

the only reason i had to use ruit was so i could use ascii passkey.
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