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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Suggestions
Turbo Puppy, faster than a speeding Greyhound!
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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veronicathecow


Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 544

PostPosted: Sat 25 Nov 2006, 17:35    Post subject:  Turbo Puppy, faster than a speeding Greyhound!  

Terrible name I know but would anyone be interested in making a super fast booting puppy that can do the following.

Surf
Emails
Word process
Play music

Thoughts on fast booting

Load from HDD (Or even better Flash card) but runs in RAM with files saved to standard partition Perhaps on seperate FLASH drive.

Comments removed from config files

Grub straight into Puppy no delay

Hardware detected once and then not probed on future boot ups unless requested

Ethernet, use DHCP once on install and then use result for "Hard address"

Parallel loading

I have tried what I can but have RSI (Carpel tunnel syndrome) so can't do to much computer work.

So far, have set grub to 0 boot time

Tried using fixed I.P. but no joy. (works fine with DHCP)

Installed to HDD and tried PSLEEP=999 but no luck. for running from RAM

Removed wallpaper etc

Any thoughts?

Cheers
Tony
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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5083
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sat 25 Nov 2006, 23:54    Post subject:  

Hi veronicathecow; Much discussion has occured about faster booting.
Unfortunatly there's not too much that can be done if Puppy's to boot from multi media.

A common misconception is that like WinBlows more apps. means slower booting.
All the apps. & Xwindow are in the file: pup_2xx.sfs
This file is simply mounted & everything in it is instantly there & ready.
So a smaller file won't make it faster, just smaller, & the smallest it can get is 40 to 50mb.
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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6266
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Sun 26 Nov 2006, 00:25    Post subject:  

There are several apps that do influence boot time though. They are things like ROX (the desktop), JWM (the windowmanager), and Xorg/Xvesa (the X server). Simply removing the line that calls ROX and the line that "fixes" the icon layout from .xinitrc would chop some time off, but you also wouldn't have icons on the desktop. Then again, many people prefer that.

Also, the pup_xxx.sfs file is not only mounted, but copied into ram (when that much ram is available). That means the size will influence the boot time, especially on slower media. On a frugal install it's almost insignificant, but after being used to that, the live-cd boot is almost painfully slow.

As for parallel loading, that was discussed once (back in the 1.x.x days, or maybe 0.9.x), but I don't remember the points that were made. Puppy has fairly linearly designed boot-scripts though, so it wouldn't be as easy as other distros. I don't know how much time there is to be gained through it either. The bigger part would probably be additional scripts called from /etc/rc.d/rc.local, such as the network. Connecting to my wireless network was a big slowdown in my old setup. I think I had it set up to run in the background once, but I got annoyed at moving faster than my computer and trying to run Firefox before my connection was established, so I put it back to normal. Rolling Eyes

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Gn2


Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 936
Location: virtual - Veni vidi, nihil est adpulerit

PostPosted: Sun 26 Nov 2006, 04:55    Post subject:  

Just adding more boot time initiate scripts - that must then be parsed - adds to bootup time.
They could always be coded in an upper_language - or for tighter, faster executing binaries - in C :
Assembly is the utmost - any of which means no bash editing of Puppy scripting !

However - unless booting is very slow - I really don't see why so much emphasis is placed on it ?
The worst bottleneck always occurs... between the chair & the keyboard !

The greatest aid to performance - is more physical RAM
And directly related - relieve CPU load with a GOOD add-in GPU using proprietary driver:
After which, customizing to own work habits.
Picking good Apps (file Mgt etal) helps.

Pardon me for constantly stressing - in the never ending search to empower users via automation -
Knowing how to run/configure sans wizards > the CLI beneath the GUI desktop > is always faster.
(Developers can automate many things - but not how to actually use Linux to most personal advantage.)
This is not to suggest anybody > (most certainly not me) -
will ever be master of all aspects of Linux !

Thankfully - Puppy is a good balance to ease of use & Linux power.....
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veronicathecow


Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 544

PostPosted: Sun 26 Nov 2006, 06:34    Post subject: Booting times  

Hi, thanks to all for replies.

Did some timings on my PC
Athlon XP running at 2GHz
512 RAM
Seagte 120Gb (4 partitions, puppy EXT3) UDMA5 capable
ASUS motherboard
(I want to install lshw to gind out more later.)

Uncompressing Linux kernal and booting 8s
Loading Kernal modules 7s
Setting network up 8s (Fixed IP now sorted, me being stupid!)
Starting Xserver to ready desktop 8s
other puppy stuff 5s
Total puppy time 36s

POST 10s

Total boot time 46s

I want to be able to boot fast as I sell on Ebay etc and often need to use a machine but want to be environmentally friendly and so switch it off when not needed. If it takes 4min 50sec to load (as did my XP install when I finally wiped it) then it's just easier to leave it on but waste energy...

Hi Pizzasgood, have loooked in /etc/rc.d/rc.local but there is only the firewall there.

I was trying to find out where the list of kernal modules such as lp, game and seriel ports were loaded as I don't use them.

I would have thought it possible to start some things in order and the parallel (If you get my meaning)
Networking takes about 7 seconds. If the ethernet driver was loaded first, then say sound, graphics then the internet part, then usb, perhaps that would work?

If anyone knows how to do that and can tell me I will have a Bash (so to speak) (Preferably in the form of "Idiots guide for beginners to Linux")

Also if anyone will have a got I will try and help anyway I can such as testing.

Currently Puppy is renowned for it's small size and minimal hardware usage, why not also it's incredible booting speed? (Yes I know it very fast anyway but i'm greedy, also there appear to be a lot of people interested in fast booting for in car and home entertainment devices as well as sad internet nerds like me)

.......
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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15235
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Sun 26 Nov 2006, 07:47    Post subject:  

Quote:
If anyone knows how to do that and can tell me I will have a Bash (so to speak) (Preferably in the form of "Idiots guide for beginners to Linux")


The Dummies Guide to Puppy
http://tmxxine.com/Wikka/wikka.php?wakka=PuppyLinux

The Unofficial Puppy Linux Guide
http://www.greenvilleroad.com/PuppyGuide-1.html

Hope that gets you started Smile

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Gn2


Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 936
Location: virtual - Veni vidi, nihil est adpulerit

PostPosted: Sun 26 Nov 2006, 07:59    Post subject:  

V-T-C

You did not tell which Puppy version - nor how it is run:
Live - frugal - full_hard_drive install.

A good place to start would be to check the initiate sequences.
init.d -> run level services.

E.G. > firewall, hot-plug, print services,,,,,.....
Firewalls should NOT start via "local" that is for user's individual services.
It should be started at any run level. - single<to> full desktop, even before the eth config starts.
X-server - see what unecessary Apps/utilities are default executed.

http://www.puppyos.com/development/howpuppyworks.html
Frankly 46 seconds is OK > whatmore do you hope to achieve ?
What about hardware, speed comes at a price: Faster drives,
GPU power - even loader placement, partition placement !

Environment - leave machine on - most monitors for many years now -
Automatically internally switch to lower power state if no vid driver activity.
Or can just turn off power to it.
Modems/routers - same thing. > Many drive devices, when idle for a predetermined time - go to "sleep state"

Matter of a fact see your BIOS... most have "sleep <> wake to event" options.
(mouse, keyboard, outside "triggers)"
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veronicathecow


Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 544

PostPosted: Sun 26 Nov 2006, 17:35    Post subject:  

Hi Lobster. thanks for pointers, some useful info there. Sometimes knowing where to look is the hardest thing.

Hi GN2
Puppy is 2.12 stable instaled to partition HDA1 (totally puppy, full install to HDD

Quote:
A good place to start would be to check the initiate sequences.
init.d -> run level services.


I tried to find init.d could not find it so I looked on net and found this
Quote:

STEP 4.
/etc/init.d/

All scripts executed by the init stage are located here. Puppy doesn't use this, and the directory doesn't exist.


Any other thoughts?

I found The Firestarter code in rc.local

It's a good thought about power saving, in the pas t I have had awful trouble with things going to sleep and never waking except for a re-boot and subsequent problems caused by it (Windows that was)

I also tried Ubuntu v(Sssslllooowwww). The hibernate partially worked by sound died after wake up and also there seemed to be some file corruption.

I've found a couple of interesting sites re-parallel starting but it's a bit above me.

http://www.initng.org/ replacement for fster parallel booting

also

http://www.netsplit.com/blog/articles/2006/09/01/upstart-can-now-replace-sysvinit

Re boot times, I tried a CF card in IDE drive (No DMA) and it took about 20 seconds longer to boot and a 3 times as long to close down.!

Anyone else done any timings of booting with different hardware and installation types.?
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Gn2


Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 936
Location: virtual - Veni vidi, nihil est adpulerit

PostPosted: Sun 26 Nov 2006, 18:06    Post subject:  

V-T-C

You may like a frugal install better - with less focus on bootup times - more on usability
With addtional wonderful benefits of ease of changing/saving/upgrading.

Running all in RAM for enhanced security & SPEED !

Puppy 's innovative features are a hindrance when operating in full_hard_drive install mode.

The neccesities for running in RAM - deviates from folder placement (LSB - FHS) http://www.opengroup.org/testing/lsb-fhs/
And full Posix standards plus compatibility to SysV initiate.

Always the user's choice - what is the preferred way to run own system !

Seems to me - ease of use, safety & versatility as pre-configured by Puppy defaults ?

Anyhow - all postings above - may add broader scope to re-thinking own needs !

Best regards to all
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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6266
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Sun 26 Nov 2006, 19:41    Post subject:  

I haven't done a full-hd install, so I don't know how it's boot-times compare. I do know that, in my experience, frugal has been much faster than Live-CD and USB. I took between 20 and 35 seconds the last time I clocked it, in 2.11 with many speed-sapping tweaks (such as newer ROX, XFCE, fancy GTK themes, etc).
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joki

Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Mon 27 Nov 2006, 11:19    Post subject: Re: Turbo Puppy, faster than a speeding Greyhound!  

veronicathecow wrote:
Terrible name I know but would anyone be interested in making a super fast booting puppy that can do the following.

Hardware detected once and then not probed on future boot ups unless requested

Ethernet, use DHCP once on install and then use result for "Hard address"


i was thinking of these 2 over the weekend.
sorted the dhcp problem out by running rc.network in background. See
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=13130

like most, i'm on a frugal install (like gn2 said that's where puppy excels), think my startup is ~ 50secs on my 400mhz celeron. around 20secs on a mates laptop (has no eth0).
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veronicathecow


Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 544

PostPosted: Mon 27 Nov 2006, 12:14    Post subject: Background network laungching  

Hi Joki, many thanks for tip, it knocked 4 seconds off the boot time to bring it down to 42 seconds working desktop and network up and running.

Any other ideas? Will be looking at frugal install but as I've done a full HDD install that I reallly like I am reluctant to wipe it and start again. Perhaps I will install to another partition, play with that and then do changes when they are checked and stable.

Tried booting HDD install Linspire 2min 0 sec and Knoppix 3min 12sec, maybe due to DMA disabled.

Puppy sets up the HDD DMA etc brilliantly...
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veronicathecow


Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 544

PostPosted: Mon 27 Nov 2006, 15:40    Post subject:  

Anyone got any ideas how to start up the Xserver earlier?, perhaps just after mouse?
Thanks
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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6266
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Mon 27 Nov 2006, 18:37    Post subject:  

You don't need to wipe a full install to do a frugal install. They can co-exist. The frugal install just puts the vmlinuz, pup_xxx.sfs, initrd.gz, and pup_save.3fs files in /, and boots into those.
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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5083
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Mon 27 Nov 2006, 22:02    Post subject:  

X can't start until the both files: pup_save.3fs & pup_2xx.sfs are mounted.

I think X starts pretty much right after the union mount of the above files.
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