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Booting multiple Puppies [SOLVED]
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan 2007, 06:58    Post subject: Booting into same partition  

At the moment I have nine computers all dual booting 2.11/109ce using one linux partition (and a swapfile) so this obviously works with my hardware. The centre opens today and I want it to "just work". Will worry about the foolproof later.

Eventually I hope to make a boot cd of the setup so I can refresh each computer individually with a zipped up contents of the linux partition. That way to add a new coputer I would just have to boot into memory, partition the drive (one linux and a small swap), install GRUB to the MBR, then unzip the dive contents (including the /boot directory) to the new linux partion.

Since the cybercafe needs dual booting (and keep it needs to be kept simple...I want to offer the CD for download from the cybercafes upcoming website) how would dual booting separate pup_save.3fs from different directories in the same partion work?

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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan 2007, 08:28    Post subject: Re: Booting into same partition  

ecomoney wrote:
Since the cybercafe needs dual booting (and keep it needs to be kept simple...I want to offer the CD for download from the cybercafes upcoming website) how would dual booting separate pup_save.3fs from different directories in the same partion work?

Actually, it may not even be necessary to use separate directories if you want to use different setups. Consider this contribution from Dougal:
Dougal wrote:
If it's just a problem with pup_save, just create a dummy file "pup_save-dummy.3fs" next to the real one on hda2 (just chose make new file in a file manager -- a plain, empty, text file).
This way when Puppy boots it'll give you a menu to choose between the two...

If that works, you could simply rename your first pup_save as pup_save_boot1.3fs and your second as pup_save_boot2.3fs and Puppy should ask which to use.

Of course you would need to make the name mean something to help you decide which file to boot with.

That is only going to work if you use the same pup_2xx.sfs for both pup_save files. With split partitions, however, you could use entirely different 2.xx versions of Puppy.

There is no problem mixing Puppy 1.xx and 2.xx because they use different boot images - image.gz for Puppy 1.xx and initrd.gz for Puppy 2.xx - but there only way to mix 2 different versions of Puppy 2.xx is to put the pup_2xx.sfs files in separate directories and modify Grub to call the kernels from those directories. For example:

Code:
title EduPuppy
root (hd0,0)
kernel /edupup/vmlinuz root=/dev/ram0
initrd /edupup/initrd.gz

title PuppyStar
root (hd0,0)
kernel /pupstar/vmlinuz root=/dev/ram0
initrd /pupstar/initrd.gz

Then you would save the EduPuppy pup_save.3fs to /edupup and the PuppyStar pup_save.3fs to /pupstar

Theoretically, Puppy should use the first pup_save file it finds, which should be the one in the current boot image directory. I haven't tried it, but that's the theory, ecomoney.

Hope that helps
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan 2007, 08:44    Post subject: Will try  

Will try the "pup_save.3fs file in same directory as kernel" method you explained, edupuppy has many of the games already in RAM for faster loading so we cant use the same pup_2xx.sfs file for both, notwithstanding the menu would be very confusing for most people that visit the cafe.

Will report back in a moment.

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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan 2007, 10:01    Post subject:  No success  

Still no success Crying or Very sad

I created a GRUBed harddisk with one linux ext2 partition and a small swap partition. In the /grub directory I placed two subdirectories "office" and "edupup" and placed the init.gz, vmlinuz and pup_save.3fs for both edupup (2.11) and puppyoffice (2.02) in their respective directories. Grub file is as follows

Code:
# Start GRUB global section
timeout 10
color light-gray/blue black/light-gray
# End GRUB global section
# Linux bootable partition config begins
  title Office
  root (hd0,0)
  kernel /boot/PuppyOffice/vmlinuz root=/dev/ram0
  initrd /boot/PuppyOffice/initrd.gz
  title Edupup
  root (hd0,0)
  kernel /boot/Edupup/vmlinuz root=/dev/ram0
  initrd /boot/Edupup/initrd.gz
# Linux bootable partition config ends


For both entries I get the text

Looking for pup_save.3fs file in hdc partition (iso9660 filesystem)
Looking for pup_save.3fs file in hda1 partition (ext2 filesystem)

then it adds the swap, then I get

Code:
ERROR, cannot find Puppy on idehd boot media
PUPMODE=1 PDEV=

Exited to initial ramdisk commandline...
[/code]

It seems that puppy will only pick up pup_saves if they are in the root directory, and two pup_saves cannot exist in the same directory unless they are named different things.

If I didnt know better, I would call puppys handling of multiple booting positively redmundesque. With the wide wealth of puplets available for different jobs (medical puppy, office puppy, edupup etc) not being able to multi boot several versions is a big oversight. I wish there was just an option of specifying which files to use at boot time in the grub config, or specifying a new name for pup_save.3fs when a new puplet is created . This would solve a lot of problems and make puppy eminnently more useable.[/code]

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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan 2007, 18:33    Post subject: Re: No success  

ecomoney wrote:
It seems that puppy will only pick up pup_saves if they are in the root directory, and two pup_saves cannot exist in the same directory unless they are named different things.

Yeah, it's a worry if you want to stick with only one partition. Renaming the pup_save files will still require your users to make a choice at boot, but at least offering the choice is automatic i.e. independent of Grub (see earlier post).

Try this suggestion from Guesttoo on the kernel line in Grub:
Quote:
somebody said something like this might work:

PUPSAVE='ext3,hda8,/pup_save.3fs'

i have not tried it, i don't know if it will work or whether it will blow up or not ... i am not responsible for damages, etc etc

see: /etc/rc.d/PUPSTATE

Maybe you could use that as a workaround. I don't know if Puppy 2.xx accepts that parameter but you have nothing to lose at this point.

Cheers
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Dougal


Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 2505
Location: Hell more grotesque than any medieval woodcut

PostPosted: Fri 05 Jan 2007, 11:15    Post subject:  

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=87891#87891
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Fri 05 Jan 2007, 21:07    Post subject: Thanks  

Dougal you are a star! This means that the teenagers can have their AMSN and their flash 9 games and the kids can have their supertux and their gCompris!!!

I will forward this on to Slapshot (lead developer of Edupup) to have it included.

Would be great to have this as part of Puppy proper as a powerful new feature in very little space, I hope Barry takes it onboard. Theoretically this means that it will be possible to create multi boot puppy disks with several versions? No longer will most of my CD's be empty!!!

Many thanks

Ecomoney

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Sit Heel Speak


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2595
Location: downwind

PostPosted: Fri 05 Jan 2007, 21:09    Post subject:  

(deleted by poster)
Last edited by Sit Heel Speak on Sat 18 Jul 2009, 16:03; edited 3 times in total
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Sit Heel Speak


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PostPosted: Fri 05 Jan 2007, 21:33    Post subject:  

(deleted by poster)
Last edited by Sit Heel Speak on Sat 18 Jul 2009, 16:04; edited 1 time in total
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Sat 06 Jan 2007, 04:25    Post subject:  

Have just edited my grub config on the testing machine to:-

Code:
# Start GRUB global section
timeout 10
color light-gray/blue black/light-gray
# End GRUB global section
# Linux bootable partition config begins
  title Office
  root (hd0,0)
  kernel (hd0,0)/boot/PuppyOffice/vmlinuz root=/dev/ram0 PHOME=hda1 PMEDIA=idehd PUPSFS=(hd0,0)/boot/PuppyOffice/pup_202.sfs PFILE=(hd0,0)/boot/PuppyOffice-none-262144
  initrd (hd0,0)/boot/PuppyOffice/initrd.gz
  title Edupup
  root (hd0,0)
  kernel (hd0,0)/boot/Edupup/vmlinuz root=/dev/ram0 PHOME=hda1 PMEDIA=idehd PUPSFS=(hd0,0)/boot/PuppyOffice/pup_202.sfs PFILE=(hd0,0)/boot/PuppyOffice-none-262144
  initrd (hd0,0)/boot/PuppyOffice/initrd.gz
# Linux bootable partition config ends


Using the default grub in puppy, and got the same set of errors as previously. thank you S.H.S. for taking the trouble to post this as it would certainly have supplied a useable workaround. It seems that the people over at GRUB HQ have already fixed this with a later grub release than the one included in puppy, so it has been requested elsewhere. Perhaps its time to update GRUB in puppy too?

Slapshot, who I asked to work on this problem has already seen this post and the one from Dougal, and has used it to remaster BETA initgz to look for edu_save.3fs instead of pup_save.3fs in edupup. This means that it can be run entirely seperately from any already puppied computer whether booted by grub or by cd. Who said Linux and open source is difficult to support in real world environments? (just a certain Mr Jobs methinks Very Happy hehe).

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Sit Heel Speak


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PostPosted: Sat 06 Jan 2007, 04:59    Post subject:  

(dbp)
Last edited by Sit Heel Speak on Sat 18 Jul 2009, 16:08; edited 1 time in total
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Sat 13 Jan 2007, 02:32    Post subject: Booting multiple puppies  

Just to let everyone know, Slapshot (Edupups Lead programmer) has created an initrg.gz to boot an edu_save.3fs file instead of a pup_save according to Dougals instructions. this means that we can create a setup that boots multiple puppies easily.

At the centre we are currently recycling a larch batch of ex school pc's. Basically our hardware guy boots them and formats the disk to linux format with a small swap partition, then installs grub. This makes for a reasonable hardware test.

After this has been done, we ftp a zip file (containing a all the _save files and pup_2xx.sfs files, open office .sfs etc) and a new /boot directory. We simply unzip it to the hard disk, reboot and run xorgwizard for both distros from a grub menu.

Result? TWO complete operating systems installed in under 15 minutes on a 100mb network on pentium 600's with 128mb!!! Just done six today - Go puppy!!!

If anyone would like a copy of this zip file PM me.

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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Fri 02 Feb 2007, 15:07    Post subject: Solved  

Thanks to Dougals instructions and Slapshots (lead developer of Edupuppy), weve got the pc's at the cybercafe all dual booting Edupuppy and 2.02. Weve also been putting the dual boot system on the low-cost pc's that the centre is selling to raise money for the Wireless Commuity LAN. Its a textbook case of how someones techical expertise can feed back into real world results.

Heres the final grub.conf

Code:
# GRUB configuration file '/boot/grub/menu.lst'.
# generated by 'grubconfig'.  Fri Dec 29 02:21:56 2006
#
# The backup copy of the MBR for drive '/dev/hda' is
# here '/boot/grub/mbr.hda.24432'.  You can restore it like this.
# dd if=/boot/grub/mbr.hda.24432 of=/dev/hda bs=512 count=1
#
# Start GRUB global section
timeout 10
color black/cyan yellow/cyan
# End GRUB global section
# Linux bootable partition config begins
  title Puppy Linux 2.02
  root (hd0,0)
  kernel /boot/puppy202/vmlinuz root=/dev/ram0
  initrd /boot/puppy202/initrd.gz
# Linux bootable partition config ends
# Linux bootable partition config begins
  title Edupup 1.1
  root (hd0,0)
  kernel /boot/edupup11/vmlinuz root=/dev/ram0
  initrd /boot/edupup11/initrd.gz
# Linux bootable partition config ends


There would be one other option I would like to add an option to boot into memory from the GRUB menu, so things like a backing up, system restore or a refresh from ftp on another machine could be carried out. Would this mean different boot parameters?

Many thanks for your help.

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