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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Puppy Power
10 pc Cybercafe for 30ukp!!!!
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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4765
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Sat 20 Jan 2007, 04:59    Post subject: LanPuppy  

OK, it will be LanPuppy. That will be easy to find here. I wonder if there is any particular thread you would recommend for the latest info.

Thanks a lot for creating LanPuppy, sunburnt!

EDIT: We posted almost at the same time, sunburnt, but presently am in communication with entities which manufacture thin clients (although indirectly), so your specifications for LanPuppy are important. Please check on my earlier post of alternative client machines.

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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5032
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sat 20 Jan 2007, 06:30    Post subject:  

raffy; Here's a web page with a $95 micro PC, 733mhz & 12" x 11" x 2.5"!
They've quite a selection & they're at : http://ewayco.com/
It'd be nice if they cost a little less or had more cpu power (gripe gripe),
but 800mhz is fast enough to play DivX movies & run Puppy very well!

If you know other sites with good deals... POST THEM!!!

You mean a latest thread for LanPuppy? Isn't really one as I'm still at it.

It's current shape is; I have finished GUI's for:
Client PC admin.: add & remove client PCs from the LanPuppy workgroup.
User login admin.: add, remove, enable & disable LanPuppy users.
Server setup & LanPuppy options: checkboxes for: No login & allow any client.

Just one more GUI to go I beleave, but I can't think of it right now.
Then testing the bootup & the GUIs, then remaster both server & client Puppies.
Eventually I'd like to make a server only LanPuppy setup like Knoppix has.
LanPuppy will have the sfsManager, & then I'll mod a few popular sfs files.

Puppy runs on any x86 type cpu PC, 200mhz will browse, 300mhz or so does better.
LanPuppy runs in 32MB to 64MB ram, more's always better but not needed.
My movie PC (AMD 900mhz) has run Win98 in 64MB for years now.
Puppy doesn't like it's SIS 6236 video card, I'll replace the card some day.
The jukebox has 32MB ram, runs Puppy & XMMS, SB Gold card, & 100w amp.

What apps. the client PC' runs determines the cpu power & ram that's needed.
The apps. vary widely, so the clients intended purpose sets what's needed.
The LanPuppy server (PupServer) is a Samba file server so 200mhz up should do.
Exactly what the power & ram needs of the server PC is, we'll have to see...
As I'd said, I'd like to see a NAS that'll PXE boot LanPuppy & Samba serve it.
A tiny NAS server & microbox client PCs, that would be REALLY interesting!
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timofonic

Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan 2007, 12:58    Post subject:  

Hello,

I found this quite interesting, 99.9999999% cybercafes from my country runs windows and specially pirated software. They usually use too new and fast computers, but running bad because of spyware and trojans.

It could be great if providing a detailled guide or howto for installing a linux-based cybercafe, including the client and server apps for client accounts, opening/closing sessions and all that stuff for cybercafes. A custom linux ready for install, easy configuration and use could be even better.

Most cybercafes from my country are used too for locutory phones (not know the exact word, sorry) because there are too much inmigrants that want to talk my family from their countries. They use black box solutions based on Microsoft Windows and unable to use custom VoIP providers, so they have some kind of "monopoly" in this aspect.

It could be really great to have an Asterisk-based solution for this and easy to maintain too for a person that has very little clue about computers. Another interesting thing could be able to use the computer for making phone calls too.

A unattended solution could be even more interesting, so people can put coins and call like any average phone, or putting coins for connecting to internet with some of the available terminals. This could solucionate the problem with people trying to not pay too.

A great Linux-based solution could make for some UNIX guys to get some money from this world, some young people like me are tired of badly paid temporary work on warehouses and supermarkets for moving merchandise. We could make some works installing Linux-based cybercafes and locutories for a lot cheaper prize than competitors using 2nd hand hardware and cheaper hardware solutions.

As you can see on the next URLs, the actual windows and black box solutions of the used software in my country are quite poorly designed and badly programmed. They are very buggy, slow to start and too limited when maintaining them.

Here is the URL of apps and solutions used in cybercafes:

iunicafe, lately a lot used. It's slow to start but it seems stable: http://www.iunicafe.com
CiberControl and CiberPuesto, very bad software but quite popular in cybercafes: http://www.cibercontrol.com/cc50proinf.htm

Destel's Locutel & Locuwin, it's crap but they install it. It's a black box solution, so you can't use other VoIP providers: http://www.destel.net/E_Locutel.htm

Best regards from Spain,
timofonic
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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5032
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan 2007, 15:58    Post subject:  

Hi timofonic; Yep, it's hard to imagine using XP to browse the web, but that's it's main use!
What a load of bloatware, a worm can of nasty software, & slow booting!

Linux does EVERYTHING Win. does except problems with games (DirectX).
As small & reliable as Puppy is, it's lunacy to use M$ ANYTHING for ANYTHING.

LanPuppy will have the base admin. GUI tools to maintain PXE booting of Puppy.
GUIs to add & remove users & machines from the server manually.

I'll probably make a Cyber Cafe package for LanPuppy, but it'll be an addon package.
GUIs for database admin. of user info & usage time, payments & accounting, etc.
It'll probably be able to run on "admin. only" LanPuppy PCs (behind the counter).
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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5032
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Mon 22 Jan 2007, 03:49    Post subject:  

raffy; I've finished the 3 GUIs & tested them, all are working well.

I've started boot testing it, & as usual the tftp isn't working.
Same Puppy ver., same software, & same PCs... what's different?
This seems to be normal for every new setup I've built, but I'll figure it out.

I hope to have a test package soon & I'll need a few beta testers.
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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4765
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Mon 22 Jan 2007, 04:50    Post subject: use pup001  

Quote:
've started boot testing it, & as usual the tftp isn't working.
Same Puppy ver., same software, & same PCs... what's different?
This seems to be normal for every new setup I've built, but I'll figure it out.

Then we will use the working pup001 from the server machine. Actually, we can deploy it this way, via pup001. (If the system goes beyond pup001, then please ignore the suggestion Smile ).

You can probably start a new thread with the new LanPuppy once you're ready, perhaps in "Cutting Edge". Thanks.
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timofonic

Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon 22 Jan 2007, 06:02    Post subject:  

sunburnt wrote:
Hi timofonic; Yep, it's hard to imagine using XP to browse the web, but that's it's main use!
What a load of bloatware, a worm can of nasty software, & slow booting!

Linux does EVERYTHING Win. does except problems with games (DirectX).
As small & reliable as Puppy is, it's lunacy to use M$ ANYTHING for ANYTHING.

LanPuppy will have the base admin. GUI tools to maintain PXE booting of Puppy.
GUIs to add & remove users & machines from the server manually.

I'll probably make a Cyber Cafe package for LanPuppy, but it'll be an addon package.
GUIs for database admin. of user info & usage time, payments & accounting, etc.
It'll probably be able to run on "admin. only" LanPuppy PCs (behind the counter).


I agree, Linux is a lot better prepared for this kind of work so is a lot easier to setup a cybercafe than windows. You can use the UNIX user account stuff and saving the configuration of each user if having an account, even providing the modification of configuration for advanced users.

About games, there are quite useful solutions like Wine and Cedega. I've seen a very good compatibility with them on apps and games, contrary to the popular belief about wine and derivates.

Actually most cybercafes do not worry about games, most of gamers that play on cybercafes were kids and those are quite annoying because of being noisy. Network gaming was quite big in Spain that there were specialized locals for that, but today that is no more because there are cheap broadband connections (not so broadband compared to other countries but a lot better than in the past) and consoles like xbox360 full of FPS (the most used genre in network multiplayer).

Other reasons of not installed games is that they are problematic because needing certain TCP/UDP ports open and those are usually not opened on network routers or the "ironically" unuseful windows firewall annoying in that.

About locutory (if this isn't the correct word, please fix it): Any possible Asterisk-based solution? It could be quite nice if having an open source solution for this. I hate the monopoly of Destel, they are extremelly slapdash too as it seems the Locuwin app is programmed in Visual Braille (aka Basic) by drunken monkeys.

I would like to know if a server-based configuration will be possible. I mean the server acting as an small datacenter or only user accounting stuff et all, and then you can have another computer (even using windows, I hate it but maybe some may want it for them) or even a PDA used as admin with a GUI and having the server physically hidden with an UPS...
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Mon 22 Jan 2007, 06:31    Post subject: timofonic  

Greetings timofonic

Im just on my way out now to a meeting about a possible commercial version of this (will let people know how it goes). I am intending to do a full write up of how to do this so it can be copied other places. You can even use an existing cybercafe as a base Very Happy

Ive done this not just to save money for Riddings Drop in centre, but as an example so that others can copy it. It should be very quick to set up with a HOWTO. Its on it's way, with all of the files you need.

With regard Asterix (Ive not used it myself), Myself and Gecko have been working to make the gizmo project available for puppy. This gives free calls to 90 countries, 60 of them with mobiles too. I have heard that this is compatible with asterix, although I cant give you any more details.

I too cant imagine anyone using Windows XP for this kind of setup, its not worth it even for free, and definetely not worth the risk to a business to pirate. The sooner Micro$oft go bust (which they will) the better for the world as a whole.

Will be in touch soon, good luck with your enterprises.

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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5032
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Mon 22 Jan 2007, 11:49    Post subject:  

raffy; tftp loads the kernel & image.gz, so it's gotta work for anything to boot.
The Save file & the Squash files are mounted through Samba shares.
No biggie... Hope to be posting it soon!

Addendum: Found it, an incorrect config. file (of course), it boots & I'm testing...


timofonic; I'm a little vauge on what your saying, but here's the short of it:
LanPuppy needs a boot & Samba server to work, it can do any other server jobs also.
Admin. for the LanPuppy network is at the server at the moment (secure).
To allow admin. login from LanPuppy client PCs is certainly possable (hacking threat).
For something inbetween, LanPuppy will allow only certain PCs to have admin. login.
So the PCs at the front desk, cash register, back office, etc. will allow LanPuppy admin.
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Colonel Panic


Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 1514

PostPosted: Thu 25 Jan 2007, 13:42    Post subject: 10 pc Cybercafe for 30ukp!!!!
Subject description: Cyber cafe that runs on Puppy
 

Hi! I just want to add my voice to all those saying this is a marvellous achievement and advertisement for Puppy. All the best for 2007.
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Fri 26 Jan 2007, 08:34    Post subject: LAN  

LANpuppy is a great idea and technically it is the best way of sharing resources...for new computers. It ignores the following facts

1. Old computers are plentiful, its actually possible here to be paid money to remove them.
2. It requires a major rework of puppy, which will cause other technical problems and compatibility issues.

Using the system here it is possible to actually build a cybercafe at no cost to the location it will be placed in and *make money* (although we havnt chosen to). All the computers run a stock puppy setup with no modification and no great level of technical skill.

Can we keep this thread about the Riddings Drop in Cybercafe please Smile

We would like to refine the design of the cybercafe as it stands, add more features, and make it so that just one package has to be used and learned (puppy!).

Something we would find useful would be the ability to use an existing cybercafe machine instead of a dedicated smoothwall computer for this setup. This would need the puppy server to use dhcp to connect to the modem, and to allow dhcp connections to it from the client machines. Most computers allow up to six pci slots and it would be great if we had a working puppy machine doing this (with a client attached to each ethernet port). This would allow us to bring another computer into service (i.e. they could all be used for surfing) and do away with the need to source a hub. All that would be needed would be ethernet cables and a few extra NIC's which are readily available from scrap (they tend to survive motherboard failures well).

As an extra, it would be good to be able to install Xampp or a simple ftp program on the puppy server so that new updates could be ftp'ed to it and a "refresh" disk be ran by relatively untrained staff to connect to it and upgrade the software on the client machines automatically. The ftp server could also be used to dish out video or a local wikipedia module (like raffy's?), if given a large enough disk.

UPDATE: We have sourced a 100mb hub for free!!!! We can now refresh each machine (manually) with a complete software update in about ten minutes!!!! hehe!!!!

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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5032
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Fri 26 Jan 2007, 15:48    Post subject:  

ecomoney; I'm not sure what you mean by "ignoring facts".

1) Old PCs is the first thought for most LANboot systems.
As old PCs dissappear, micro box PCs like raffy talks about will be the choice.
Their main advantages are size & power consumption, something normal PCs suck at.
However, companys will always get rid of old PCs for song or less.

2) As for a major rework... The code for the original LanPuppy is an addon to Puppy's code.
It's just an extra script that a boot argument calls, plus only 3 files added to initrd.gz.

"No cost"... Don't you need a flash card & an IDE adapter for your setup?

For PXEboot all that's needed is a PXE NIC, I bought 10 3com bds. for $3 each!

The LanPuppy server (PupServer) IS a normal Puppy install with Samba server, DHCP, & TFTP.
So it can be used as any normal PC, security is the only worry about doing this.

The server has the only copies of Puppy, so only 1 PC requires any admin. or installs!
PupServer is a low power PC, as it only boots & serves Samba shares to the client PCs.
PupServer runs no software for the clients, it's just boot & storage.
The clients run a normal Puppy install with no local storage, just Samba shares.

The move by many industrys to diskless client PCs is the a good indicator of it's worth.

ecomoney, you should look into the "BackStreet Ruby Project", it allows extra video bds. in 1 PC.
So just one 1ghz PC can run say, 6 monitors, keybds., & mice for 6 users at the same time!
This would save even more expense & maintenance, & there'd be fewer PCs in the CyberCafe!
This however would intail some specilized adaptions to Puppy to get it to work.
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Fri 26 Jan 2007, 16:57    Post subject: Apologies  

Sunburnt, apologies for my ill crafted term, no offense intended. Smile I had misunderstood the setup of LANpuppy and hadnt realised that it was essentially so similar to existing puppy from a compatibility point of view. Thank you for putting me right about that (I am not so technical so this was lost on me).

The setup we are using at the cafe does not need IDE flash cards and an adaptor, just plain old IDE hard disks of about 4.3gig or slightly bigger. The network hardware wise is pretty much how it was while it was in the school, which is a standard topography for most networks that larger organisations are disposing of at the moment.

The debate about how much power to have on the workstation vs how much on the server is a complex one and has been a topic for several decades. The main advantage of server side wieghting is that admin is simpler, and the client side is that as more computers are added it automatically adds more hardware power making server upgrades less infrequent.

I agree that in a typical cybercafe a single computer with a master setup file would be the way to go, however our single case we test several different setup versions at any one time (stable vs bleeding edge?). The setup we have chosen was because of two main factors, the availability of the hardware at the current time, and because I do not have the expertise to set up a system such as LANpuppy Rolling Eyes . Computer expertise and the time needed to gain it is the main cost to open source projects at the moment.

I can see that your project is the future for systems like this and I wish you every success with it. Keep us informed when it is ready for testing.

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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5032
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Fri 26 Jan 2007, 17:42    Post subject:  

ecomoney; Here's just one of many links I've found: http://www.linuxtoys.org/multiseat/multiseat.html

Note: There are 2 types of client/server setups, central processing & distributed processing.
Your setup is client only, so it's the distributed processing type & distributed storage.
LanPuppy is distributed processing also, but centralized storage in the server.
So for both setups the users PCs have to be able to run a browser & anyother apps.

The next type of LanPuppy I make after this one will be both centralized processing & storage.
So very weak client PCs (100-200mhz) & very powerful servers that run everything.
This should make for cheap clients & just a few expensive servers.
But this setup makes the MOST efficent use of memory (on the server).

It should be noted that X can do both, that's run apps. locally or remotely.
So you can browse the web with a local app. & tell a Solaris server to run a Solaris app.,
& the Solaris apps. screen will show on your local screen.
This means that a Linux PC can run apps. on Win., IBM mainframes, etc. that won't run locally!

Last edited by sunburnt on Sat 27 Jan 2007, 13:49; edited 1 time in total
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BlackAdder


Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 382

PostPosted: Fri 26 Jan 2007, 17:56    Post subject:  

Quote:
This means that a Linux PC can run apps. on Win., IBM mainframes, etc. that won't run locally!

Now that should interest you ecomoney. Maybe sunburnt could help you set up a solution for the garage problem.
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