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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Puppy Power
10 pc Cybercafe for 30ukp!!!!
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Sun 01 Jul 2007, 03:51    Post subject: Welcome  

Welcome to the puppy forum Mr Windle!

Mr Windle was a big part of the team that assembled the cybercafe over the christmas period. I am really glad that youve taken the plunge and decided to join in with the discussion on here. TMW has some impassioned and well researched views on the development of puppy from his own personal experience and his observations at the cybercafe/in the community at large that Im sure he will be passing onto the hardworking puppy developers in his own inimitable literary style. TMW is also the moderator of the Scunnymoney community trading forum (www.scunnymoney.com), where he is often called upon to slay trolls dead with a few deft taps of his mighty keyboard. I hope that as his confidence grows on here will take a leaf out of Barrys book and steer clear of the the rouge elements......for their sake!!!!

Linux_chick, your efforts into ensuring normal life went on and we were all fed and watered during the many late nights over Christmas/New Year 2006/2007 will never be forgotten. Your "human" skills and input have been a great help and inspiration in what has been developed.

I am glad that you have both decided to finally join us at the sharp end of the open-source development process. Without both of your added efforts the cybercafe wouldnt be here.

Just a reminder for those of you that havnt seen as yet, we have released the software that was used at the cybercafe (2.02ce based and the latest 2.15ce based beta version) You can read up on and download it from our threads here and here.

Thanks for reading.

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Varmint


Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 74
Location: Ohio, USA

PostPosted: Wed 04 Jul 2007, 11:02    Post subject: look-alike desktop  

Nice looking desktop. Reminds me of what I see on another linux distro I have here. Perhaps DSL or SLAX....
A good OS is like a good driveron the highway....you don't notice the good ones, but the bad ones stick out like a neon sign!
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Fri 06 Jul 2007, 06:26    Post subject: Thanks  

Thanks, its one of the themes whodo compiled, with a vistaish background.
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yorkiesnorkie


Joined: 04 Jun 2007
Posts: 505
Location: George's Island

PostPosted: Fri 13 Jul 2007, 08:19    Post subject:  Note to Jean  

Hi,

Neat Cafe, Its nice to see kids having fun with Puppy. I sent some encouraging words to Jean about the OS based on my personal experience thus far.

Quote:
Hi Jean,

I was just reading about the cyber cafe and Puppy. I thought I'd offer my own experience with Puppy so far as a word of encouragement mostly because I just recently switched over to version 2.15CE (community edition) of the os.

I'd run into some problems with my laptop. My old laptop was so slow. I'd been running WIN98SE, and because of all the protective measures I'd had to take to connect to the internet I'd spend more time trying to maintain it and keep it free of bugs than using it for the things I wanted to do. I can't begin to tell you how many times I'd re-installed Windows after repeatedly getting one bug or another, at least 4 hours each time, only to have to repeat the process later. Then I discovered that my printer vendor had deliberately left a back door on the laptop which allowed others access to my laptop. Removal of their trojan disabled the machine and once again it was back to re-installation.

That was the final straw that prompted me to finally decide to look for something else. The only problem was finding something new that would run on my old IBM laptop. Ubuntu would not run on my laptop because it didn't have the minimum requirements, so I settled on Puppy Linux because it was so simple, and it had the advantage of running off of a CD.

So far, I've been very impressed by how simple Puppy is to install, taking minutes as opposed to hours, and by how fast it runs on my older laptop. That is a refreshing change to just waiting minutes for Windows to load. There are a few new things to learn about the directories and so on but if your getting a little help you'll soon get used to any differences between Puppy and XP. If anything I've begun to feel more free to do what I want with the computer than I have in years. Now I'm getting things done instead of maintaining the computer all the time.
I found Puppy 2.15CE nothing less than wonderful because it includes all the basic software one needs to get those little tasks in life done! Puppy also has the advantage of being free, no fees. The software that is included is functional and pretty complete, and if you want something else the installer icon on the desktop makes it easy to add new programs. Chances are if you need something you can find an equivalent program for Linux and install it.

The big thing I really like is that my problems with the internet have evaporated. I'm no longer victimized by things outside my control. In short I've taken back control over my laptop.

I'm hoping Puppy Linux empowers you to do the things you want to do.

All the best,

Greg
Smile
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Tue 17 Jul 2007, 02:38    Post subject: Thanks Everybody  

Thanks to everybody that has emailed Jean. I have definetely noticed a change, she is currently running ubuntu on her home laptop (needed because networking wasnt working with puppy!) and the ecopup 0.7 on her work computer. Finally she is free from the Redmund menace. Although it has taken her some time, I think she is enjoying the new challenges it is bringing, and can see that the "open" way of doing things is more logical than the imposed way of doing things that her previous applications forced upon her(internet explorer, M$ office and M$ publisher). She tells me she has received many emails and replied to them.

Yesterday, just one week after finally finishing the XP installation at the cafe, someone came in and formatted the hard disk, effectively wiping out an estimated 15 hours of work (I did my best not to chuckle...I really did!!!!). The XP computer is back up now, but has a puppy disk permanently in the CD drive to dual boot it into puppy. Its only there in case there is someone in that really needs it for one of the few compatibility issues. Pete, the person responsible for the XP side of things has come round and is now using puppy at home.

Will report again soon.

Rob

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John Doe

Joined: 01 Aug 2005
Posts: 1689
Location: Michigan, US

PostPosted: Tue 17 Jul 2007, 03:03    Post subject: Re: Thanks Everybody  

ecomoney wrote:
she is currently running ubuntu on her home laptop (needed because networking wasnt working with puppy!)


any way we can help fix this?

always great to help a 'damsel in distress'.
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pug1


Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 7
Location: Making adventurous treks.

PostPosted: Thu 19 Jul 2007, 20:32    Post subject:  Grandiose!
Subject description: Way to show how it's done.
 

That is really Cool . And to think parliment spending so many pounds for windozing PCs. Surprised Great going. Wink Hope, all get a real education of what the Pup can do. Keep on spreading the news of this grand little Puppy. Toodles. Very Happy
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Fri 20 Jul 2007, 07:32    Post subject:  

Yes, I reported the problem about the wireless, it is a must have for Jean.

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=19125

Yes I totally agree about the cost of windows excluding people from the "information revolution", It wouldnt be quite so bad if the money was used for more constructive things....heres a few links to some stories about where the windoze licience fee goes.

http://www.boycottbush.net/consumers.htm - Look at whos at number 2...

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/01/09/1455200

A lot of people are getting very worried about the actions of the U.S. government (not the people, there is a BIG difference IMHO). Would you want to give full access to your information to the US government, what web pages youve been reading, your data etc, plus the ultimate power to disable and control it to Mr Bush?

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richard.a


Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 510
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Wed 29 Aug 2007, 08:59    Post subject:  

Hey chaps (if you're a Brit) guys (if you're a Yank)....

I've come to this thread in a circuitous way, via a whole load of www posts... and have also emailed Joan.

Sorry to have missed the thread earlier, but that's life.

Top marks Robert and all the rest. Very interested in some of the earlier discussions.

Take care,

Richard in Oz where the roads are not yellow bricked Smile

Quote:
Hullo from Australia

Hello Jean,

I've been reading about your cybercafe from about a dozen different web addresses and finally discovered Robert's descriptive thread on the PuppyLinux forum - which I hadn't read until tonight!

I'm really impressed with the way it has been set up using open source software.

I used to use Microsoft Windows, and was a professional designer of electrical control systems among other things, and in about 1992 added instructing old draughtsmen in how to convert to computerised "CAD" because they felt uncomfortable with junior employees teaching them.

Since my retirement I've been involved in returning time and effort to the industry that has paid me handsomely for using what I've picked up in user support the last 10 years or so of my working life. I shall be 73 in January 2008.

Working with people in my retirement where I don't have to waste my time with fixing unfixable (in the long term) problems like virii and trojans through Linux, I thought I'd give you some encouragement with your fantastic venture if you don't mind Smile

My background with open source software is varied... I've been involved with testing BSD Unix for a year or so, testing a commercial Linux over the previous 3 years, and now Puppy Linux for about a year, including the 2.15 Community Edition you are using. A brand new one is just starting, that we are excited about.

Some of my efforts with puppy have been seeing how fast I can run it on time expired old MS Windows computers! It's been a fascinating experience, because my suspicions that we are dumping perfectly good hardware into landfill have shown that I was right! I like being proved "right", as I'm sure most of us do <joke>

Sure there are a few differences from Microsoft Windows - but there are actually more differences between Windows 2000, WindowsXP, and WindowsVista, if we look at them in detail!

Please feel free to contact any of us if you have ANY problems, and we'll find a suitable solution - in my case it could be overnight as I'm in Australia. You can use my phone number at the bottom of this email if you need to, but just check the time difference <grin> or you'll end up on my answering machine!

That's one of the joys of Open Source Software - contributors are literally all over the world!

Enjoy your day, Joan. I'm headed for bed here, it's 10.30pm in Adelaide (the capital of South Australia) - and we are 9-1/2 hours ahead of GMT here, your time is 2.00pm.

If you are into IRC chatting, I'm involved in the running of several chat channels on undernet.org where I use the nickname of eagle`s

God bless you

Richard


--------------

Richard Ashton

Retired PC & CAD Consultant
Linux operating system beta tester
Sound and video recording
Chatroom and website management
On-line technical and personal assistance

08 8396 0440 - 0412 795 400 (within Australia)
+618 8396 0440 - +61 412 795 400 (outside Australia)

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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Wed 29 Aug 2007, 19:33    Post subject: Hi Richard  

Hi Richard, welcome to the thread, Im amazed at how its just run and run.

Just to let everyone know about the Windoze XP experiment, after taking 18 hours to initially set up with all the tweaks, it lasted *three whole days* before it died of unknown causes. Its been a harsh summer for the Drop in as its been full of children keeping themselves out of trouble. I think the two of the computers have succumbed to the heat. Thankfully with puppy your back up and running in ten minutes.

I was teaching a child safety online course there yesterday. This was organized by the neighbouring Westcliffe community centre, where I am to teach the same course there tomorrow. I visited the computer suite there five days ago to find a state of the art computer suite with eight 2ghz pc's/512mb/40gb, flatscreens, cd burners - the works.

I visited today with a batch of newly burned ecopup 0.7.1 cd's (newly burned from my work over the bank holiday weekend), and the assistance of "the might windle". Within an hour six of the computers were printing, on the internet, msn etc etc running the latest ecopup. I had to leave the other two defragmenting overnight because the drives were in such a state or they would all have been puppied. I will do those just before the class tommorow.

They are actually owned by the local Adult Education, who teach wordproccessing and spreadsheets to the retired (I used to work for them myself). They do not let anyone on the computers unless there are classes (between two to four hours a week). They wont let anyone use them in case they get virused. They dont have msn, or any java plugins for fear of viruses, and basically just consist of an unupdated windows xp, microsoft office 2000 and Norton antivirus with the subscription expired. Im going to need puppy to teach the class because it comes with all of the software people actually USE!!!

The adult educations policy is not to let anyone install any software whatsoever on the computers, but because puppy is, strictly speaking, not windows software then it has been turned a blind eye to by the centre managers. I just copy the eco_save (ecopups pup_save.fs), OO_215.sfs and zdrv_215.sfs to the root of c:\ and boot from cd, no repartitioning. Because of this, they are starting up the kids "cyberclub" again in the evenings, its now safe to go on the computers!!!

Other news is, as we can only get a 1.5mb connection at the cybercafe we have struggled, especially over the summer. I want the cafe to be able to stream video. Across the road (which is cabled where we are not) there lives an elderly lady who told us she has spent around £400 in the past year getting her computer re-installed. We told her that we would look after her computer for free from now on, and pay for her connection if she were to share her connection wirelessly with us across the road. We actually get three months free connection with Virgin Media, our local cable supplier when we sign up new customers, and they get connected for ten pounds a month rather than fifteen. We organise at least one connection a week with all of the recycled computers we can give out thanks to puppy. So this will pay for her connection. Of course, we will not need to spend hours re-installing her computer as it will be immune to viruses from now on. Were putting her on 20mb broadband, which will be a sevenfold increase on the bandwidth we already have with AOL through ADSL.

The main problem is getting the wrt54g wireless router that we will need. We have to ask the committee on wednesday if they will release the thirty pounds we need to buy one. Were going to load it with freifunk firmware and it will become the first node of the planned wireless mesh network. As more people join their bandwidth is "pooled" so we will have an even faster connection!!! Most people are out in the day when the cybercafe is open, and can use the extra bandwidth in the evening when the cybercafe is shut.

I was a university qualified windows programmer and computer engineer for ten years before switching to linux, and myself and startled onlookers are constantly amazed by how much can be achieved with so little for free. Thanks a million for what you are doing guys!!!!

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richard.a


Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 510
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Thu 30 Aug 2007, 00:41    Post subject:  

I've heard good and bad things about Virgin, both locally here in Oz, and from my musician son Gwyn Ashton ( www.gwynashton.com ) but by and large they seem more interested in customers. They have created a new concept here, with the avowed intent to get rid of landlines, and I'm still trying to work out how a mobile/cell phone black box modem router what-have-you with oodles of free calls to landlines can return a profit Smile I read about it the other day. They buy a huge amount of time/space from optus which was originally owned by Cable and Wireless, who sold it to SingTel (the Singapore Telephone company).

I think you chaps are doing a wonderful job... I've tried extolling the virtues of puppy to locally funded workshops rebuilding computers for the underprivileged but it's falling on deaf ears. Worth pursuing though.

I believe you are in Scunthorpe? I was stationed at RAF Kirton-in-Lindsey in the 1950s, which was the boot camp for aspiring aircrew at the time. I have fond memories of the area.


Now something new...
I picked up and ran with something earlier in this thread, mate.
Using the hosts file as a block for nasty sites.
I have it up and running and might need to create a new thread for it.

This is Project Gotcha!
Basically I set up a machine already running windows98 and an unused apache 1.3.xx on the LAN and found that using that apache as a new source of http for specific sites, it is a 100% block. I like to have a web server on each machine for testing from other computers.

I selected a few obvious addresses at random, and entered the urls with and without the www wildcard, on separate lines, shown later.

The hosts file is effectively your database of known bad addresses. You need that on every computer on the LAN.

In Windows 98 the file path is C:\Windows\hosts
In Windows 2000 and XP the file path is C:\WINNT\System 32\Drivers\etc\hosts
In *nix the file path is /etc/hosts

You could substitute a headless box (like my pair of NAS-Lite archive servers on the floor) running puppy and Monkey, and it's fabulously simple. No monitor, no keyboard, no mouse, just access it by telnet from another box. Or build it into the (password protected administrator's box.

The beauty with this system is that if the server fails, the hosts file ensures there is no access to that address in the outside world.

You can even use the concept to enable or disable specific machines from seeing anything served on the LAN.

I do believe that there is a need to use user logins to prevent enterprising youths from cracking the block though Smile

I have an index.html with just the following code, which makes the disconnection totally anonymous...

Code:
<p>&nbsp;<p>

<h1>Gotcha</h1>

<p>

You can put an ! after Gotcha! if you want, but maybe not. You could even create an error 500 or similar page if you want to make it look "official" or if you want to be more friendly, you could design a page that makes it clear why there was no progress any further... the choices are many Smile

This is the sample hosts file I created from the regular Microsoft one. You will note that it is set up for dropping other code in as well; it is shown with the monkey ports added...
Code:
127.0.0.1 localhost <computer's name>

# 15:01 15/12/2005 wedgetail
# updated 14:37 22/01/2006
# Copyright (c) 1998 Microsoft Corp.
#
# This is a sample HOSTS file used by Microsoft TCP/IP stack for Windows98
#
# This file contains the mappings of IP addresses to host names. Each
# entry should be kept on an individual line. The IP address should
# be placed in the first column followed by the corresponding host name.
# The IP address and the host name should be separated by at least one
# space.
#
# Additionally, comments (such as these) may be inserted on individual
# lines or following the machine name denoted by a '#' symbol.
#
# For example:
#
#      102.54.94.97     rhino.acme.com          # source server
#       38.25.63.10     x.acme.com              # x client host

127.0.0.1       localhost
# start of LAN Virtual hosts address translation
# end of LAN Virtual hosts address translation

# start of undesirable sites redirection
192.168.0.13:51234    badsite.com
192.168.0.13:51234    www.badsite.com
192.168.0.13:51234    badsite.org
192.168.0.13:51234    www.badsite.org
192.168.0.13:51234    pornsite.com
192.168.0.13:51234    www.pornsite.com
192.168.0.13:51234    pornsites.com
192.168.0.13:51234    www.pornsites.com
192.168.0.13:51234    pornsite.org
192.168.0.13:51234    www.pornsite.org
192.168.0.13:51234    pornsites.org
192.168.0.13:51234    www.pornsites.org
# end of undesirable sites redirection

# start of LAN computers address translation
# end of LAN computers address translation

#12:51 30/08/2007
#eof

Just remove the :51234 port designation from every line if using a server that uses the standard port (80).

Also, change 192.168.0.13 to reflect whatever LAN IP the machine serving the dummy pages is located at.

It's important to note that you can't put a wildcard in the url to bar images and page names in the same way. However, you do get returned an error 404 page which can be customised... that is standard practice for webmasters. And again, it is still anonymous, because it gives the server name as the url you typed, which is rather neat.

I'm really rather taken with this idea. If it is possible to find someone who has an existing database of addresses that can be fed into the file, that would save a lot of extra work. I'd be happy to do that.

I have the repository of this project at http://micro-hard.homelinux.net/gotcha/ and this will be maintained. The server has a number of vhosts and is under my desk on an ADSL2+ connection with an uplink of close to 1Mbps.

Stop Press
Auda has kindly provided his immense list of blacklisted urls, and to save anyone from having to laboriously edit this list with the unusual port used by the earlier Monkey web server (I don't know if more recent ones use the standard port 80 or not), I'm making two versions of the hosts file, the second with :51234 suffixed.

19,895 urls in all Smile

So a bit of patience and I'll do a web page also in my info website about how to use this.

Stop Stop Press
Having some problems with the Monkey port:51234 suffixed. Not all OS's nor versions of OS's like it being used to redirect. The Windows98se + apache combo is working well, and I'm satisfied with the Win2000 (with sp4) +apache 1.3.xx as well.

I'll start doing a Linspire + apache 1.3.xx combo later today, hopefully. Not many distros have an available install of 1.3.xx which I know very well, but 2 behaves differently. The web page is coming along, but off-line, as I discover bugs! It's mid-day Friday here.

Thanks for the Lincolnshire update, Robert, yeah isn't it a small world Smile I got some photos several years ago of RAF Kirton when I started my on-line BIO which needs a lot done to it, lol. And I remember doing as a leadership test an expedition to nearby Hibalstowe airfield to prepare and estimate to reactivate it with 24hrs notice for operations! I went by bike and borrowed the Orderly Room typewriter to do my report Very Happy

It would be good to catch up and talk about your part of the world Smile

I believe the new forum thread I mentioned should wait until it's working sufficiently well to let off the leash. At the moment "Stay" and "Down" don't work effectively (to quote from my days in Dog Obedience Smile )

Screencaps thumbnail images from a LAN computer
Work In Progress... first two, unblocked (left) ... and blocked (right)


'Gotcha' page installed on hosts server, which was loaded as default page (index.html).
This then was displayed on MSIE6 (left) ... and Firefox 2 (right)




Richard

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Last edited by richard.a on Thu 30 Aug 2007, 23:20; edited 1 time in total
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Thu 30 Aug 2007, 18:29    Post subject:  

Hello again Richard, yes Kirton is just about ten miles down the road. Im afraid the steel industry has taken a big tumble from when you were here. Since that is what the town was built on, its kinda left the place a bit marooned. There are good people here though. Just shows what a small world it is (especially now we have the internet!).

Thanks for the information about the filter. We use an old p300/64mb box as a smoothwall router (www.smoothwall.org), with the dansguardian mod installed. We had quite a bit of trouble tuning it as it blocked any files that might pose a threat to a windows system, but dont pose a threat to puppy (things like .docs, .zips ,.mp3's and that sort of thing...seems people are afraid of using their computers!!!). Im glad you posted this information though as Im sure it will be useful for others setting up public access using puppy. I will download the blocked sites list and add it to ours as well. The filter usually picks up sites with a "bad word" filter but best to be on the safe side. Also the ecopup distro were creating from puppy at the centre may well have a filter installed in firefox for the next release (if we dont have to move to opera because of the flash 9 crash bug!). We may well include that inside if thats ok.

My father runs a small film company (not even online!), and he says that shortly he will do a short film of the process. Weve currently got it down to about 10-15 minutes. Perhaps you could forward the link over to the recycling charities. Theres a lot of FUD about linux started by you-know-who. Ive found the same rules with selling apply as anywhere else, sell the benefits, not the features!

Have had a listen to your sons music and Im very impressed (have played in a few blues bands myself).

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dancingdog777

Joined: 17 Mar 2007
Posts: 49
Location: Bournemouth, UK

PostPosted: Mon 24 Sep 2007, 15:07    Post subject: Re: Puppy File for Download  

[quote="ecomoney"]WOW!!!! 80mb zipped up!!!

This is the pup file I created. Im just in the process of refreshing all of the computers in the suite with a fresh cloned copy as Im posting this.


Heres the link.

http://www.ecomoney.eu/puppy/puppyfiles/cybercafepup.zip

Enjoy

Very Happy quote]

Hi, this link has died. Is there another one please?
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Mon 24 Sep 2007, 19:37    Post subject: Hi Dancingdog  

Hi, that post was made some time ago, and I think it was when we were still using 1.09ce asa base. Currently were running ecopup 0.7.1 at the cafe, an ISO of which can be downloaded from here.

Good luck and please come back to tell us how you got on with it.

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cthisbear

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 4301
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Wed 26 Sep 2007, 02:14    Post subject:  

Finally got Ecopup...posted from Robert.

Anyone around Sydney got a server to upload it to?
Within reason - around the Strathfield area I will drive to your address
and give you a copy to upload.

Anyone interstate with a server - I will post you a copy to upload.
Barry will be sent a copy.
Neville Richter from ... http://os.cqu.edu.au/ ....
will be sent a copy....I have just rung him.
PM me..........but only if you can upload it.

Anyone else wll be charged postage.

Chris
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