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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
How to update packets and kernel on Slackware 14.1?
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The_Vintage_Machine


Joined: 16 May 2020
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat 16 May 2020, 23:45    Post subject:  How to update packets and kernel on Slackware 14.1?  

Hello! Very Happy

I hope all of you are doing well.

I've heard about Puppy Linux a few years ago, but I was not prepared for this challenge.

Unfortunately, I just have one laptop on my house... as soon as I remembered I have a (be ready) powerful Aspire One mini laptop (Intel Atom, 1GB RAM). So I'm trying to bring it back to the life to give it to my family while I can keep using my laptop to keep learning about Linux Razz .

I've tried using Bionic Puppy, but was going slow and was freezing. Now I'm using Slackware 14.1 and runs perfectly fine. I'm really impressed! I want to thank you guys for all your efforts doing this lovely puppies!

I was doing some research to get familiarized with the commands but I didn't find detailed and "friendly" information about this. So I have two challenges and one question:

-I don't know if the Slackware 14.1 version is kind of unsupported or old. Can you please clarify this to me?

Now my 2 challenges:

-I would like to know how I can update the kernel (if recommended for more security and stability, if possible).

-Can I update all the installed packets with one command? I've been using Ubuntu and Debian, so I used to just write "apt-get update" for that. But seems like apt doesn't have powers here! Shocked .

I appreciate your help.
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 6397
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Sun 17 May 2020, 05:14    Post subject:  

Hallo, The_Vintage_Machine. And to the 'kennels'.

Mm. An Atom-powered netbook, huh? And 1 GB of RAM.....

Well, the beauty of Puppy is that it caters for elderly hardware of all stripes. No matter how old your machine, there is almost certain to be a 'Puppy' somewhere that will run on it.....in some fashion or another.

Certain people here will insist that you must always run the very newest Puppy.....but for that machine, the Bionic Puppies are getting into 'heavy' territory, and are really too much for it. So, we scout around for alternatives.....and, as you've found, the 'Slacko' Pups work admirably. You have to be 'sympathetic' to your hardware's abilities; powerful hardware, the sky's the limit. Weaker hardware - as in your case - you need something more lightweight.

I do hope you're running a 'frugal' Puppy, and not a "full' one? Shocked

Puppy is designed to run as a 'frugal' install. Loads into a virtual, RAM-based filesystem from 'read-only' files; despite running as 'root' all the time, Pup is nearly bullet-proof. As you've found, the usual mainstream 'sudo this' or 'apt-get that' don't work in Puppy; Puppy has its own custom package management system, which accesses the repos of the distro it's based on.....but these don't always run straight off, because much about Puppy is quite unique. Puppy has its own way of doing things!

Puppy also doesn't use the 'apt-get upgrade' command. The thinking is, if it works, leave it alone. Puppies are so small, and so easy to 'upgrade' the whole thing (newer Pups will have newer packages (and a newer kernel), if that sort of thing really concerns you), that we simply don't bother with the whole upgrade infrastructure.

----------------------------

If familiarity with recognised procedures is important to you, you may be better off running one of the 'Dogs'. See here:-

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=111789

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=113210

-----------------------------

Have a play around with a few different Puppies or Dogs, before deciding one way or another. The Puppy 'way' is not for everyone, and is very different to what many are used to; if familiarity is important to you, then Puppy is probably not for you.

Any questions, don't hesitate to ask.


Mike. Wink

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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3913
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Sun 17 May 2020, 11:59    Post subject:  

First, no you can’t perform a general update with one command. The ability to do so has never been one of Puppy’s objectives. Puppy's primary goals are to provide a user-friendly operating system which because of their light-weight can be run on older computers; and because of their modular design can be updated as NECESSARY whenever possible. Using Puppy’s build system (woof) Puppies can be binary compatible with a major Distro, such as Slackware, Ubuntu or debian. But they are not just cut-down versions of those systems. All Puppies share light-weight ‘infra-structure’ not used in its binary-compatible, and which may conflict with that used in the binary-compatible. Even following the advice from the binary-compatible to update an application can result in breaking Puppy.

Following up on Mike Walsh’s hope that you did a frugal install. ‘Frugal’ does not mean ‘cut-down’. It is the same operating system as a ‘Full Install’, only packaged so that it does not require an entire partition to itself –hence frugally using your hardware. Because of the way it is packaged, it employs a modular design --the operating system consists of components only 'merged-in-RAM' on bootup-- which enables a user, among other things, to easily change kernels.

Puppies are designed to be modular. Frugal Puppies have the ability to use SFSes, and Ubuntu-and-debian Puppies can often use an AppImage OOTB. These do not become part of one’s system –overwriting or conflicting with other files-- and so break nothing. Puppies’ general recommendation regarding updating/upgrading is that it is only necessary with regard to applications relating to, or providing, a security risk such as openssl and web-browsers. [E.g., unless you want or need the latest ‘Bells & Whistles', gimp 2.4 published 12 years ago does not pose a security risk and will do pretty much the same job as 2.10.18, the latest stable version. The users of many puppies, however, can obtain and use Gimp 2.10.18, choosing to sacrifice ‘light-weight’ for ‘cutting-edge’].

The only ways I know which is the latest Slackware version of operating systems is to keep track of what peebee does, see for example, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1013898#1013898 or examine https://pkgs.org/. Puppy’s package manager is started from the menu: Menu>Setup>Puppy Package Manager. It will access the repositories appropriate to your specific Puppy. But, if there’s something else you want you have a couple of choices: (1) Always FIRST look on the Additional Software Section*. (2) Use your web-browser to access pkgs.org and download an application and its its dependencies. Then, combine them using PaDS, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=998922#998922. (3) Install sc0ttman’s Pkg - CLI package manager, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=943460#943460. It is designed to function like Ubuntu/debian apt, but can also make use of Slackware packages among others. Don’t hesitate to use it because it shows up in the ‘cutting edge section’ --that’s was just the appropriate location for it to have begun its evolution two years ago-- nor that it’s identified as a CLI. It opens to an informative menu. Some recent puppies are published with it builtin.

Since your computer uses an Intel Atom processor, you should be aware of 8Geee’s Atomicpup2020, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=943460#943460 which received a major update January 8, 2020. http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1047138#1047138 specifically built for them. From time to time 8Geee publishes an updated version. In the interim, that thread provides information about important updates.

As none of my computers has one, I can only tell you that 8Geee’s Puppy runs fine on other computers. But, I should also mention that Radky’s dpup-stretch, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=112125 is often recommended for older computers regardless of which CPU they use.

It is frequently recommended that a newbie try several Puppies to find out which runs best on his/her computer, easily provides the most applications, and gives the most pleasurable experience.

This posts explains How to Swap kernels manually, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1057910#1057910. Some recent puppies have a built in application to do that.

Even if the operating system the computer came with or you later installed were only 32-bit, it is likely that your computer has the chip-set to run 64-bit kernels. 32-bit systems can run under either 32-or-64 bit hardware; but not vice-versa. So, if you choose to change kernels you have a wide choice of which to use. You’ll find kernel packages on this thread, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=894414#894414 . Some of the posts will advise of the need to use fdrv.sfses. Unlike drivers, firmware is not ‘kernel-specific’ but, rather, can be used with any kernel. To use them, they have to be renamed and located adjacent to the other system files as discussed in the previously cited post. Other devs may also package and provide them, but gyro publishes ones available from this link, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=820573#820573. Don’t be concerned with its size. That only uses storage space. A frugal puppy will only copy from the fdrv into RAM the specific file it needs. Remastering or the use of a cutter application will eliminate unnecessary files.

But, if you do decide to change kernels, I’d recommend using one of tho REAL-TIME Kernels –designated by the letters RT-- rockedge makes available here, https://rockedge.org/kernels/

* http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/index.php?f=53. This Section has thread about many popular Web-browsers, providing recent and secure versions. Those designated 'portable' will work with many different Puppies.
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The_Vintage_Machine


Joined: 16 May 2020
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun 17 May 2020, 18:22    Post subject:  

I want to thank you Mike Walsh and mikeslr for taking the time to give me a detailed explanation about all these, You guys gave me all the info I wanted to know and more.

I came from Windows and I'm just starting to learn more about what is a kernel, what is a monolithic OS and a modular OS, etc. I'm very excited, I like to learn about all of this.

I was running a full install, I've corrected it, I though exactly what mikeslr commented: I though that frugal installation was a "cut-off" version or something similar.

Quote:
Loads into a virtual, RAM-based filesystem from 'read-only' files; despite running as 'root' all the time,


This is... wow, incredible, I'm investigation more information about these. Looks pretty interesting and secure.

I have a lot to learn and try. I'll play with all the puppies you recommended me also.

Thank you!
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 6397
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Sun 17 May 2020, 20:20    Post subject:  

@ The_Vintage_Machine:-

No worries. Even for experienced Linux users, Puppy is sometimes seen as a "step too far"; runs as root (big 'no-no'); small - tiny, really (most can't understand how a fully-functional OS can fit in something so small). And there's lots of things that just don't quite work the way they expect 'em to.....

A learning curve is expected with Puppy, but I'll tell you this much.....if you enjoy all this stuff, you will have more fun with Puppy than you could ever have with Redmond's nightmare, or Crapple's over-priced excuse for an 'eco-system'.

Any questions, ask away; don't be shy! There'll always be somebody around at any hour of the day or night..... Smile


Mike. Wink

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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13981
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sun 17 May 2020, 21:04    Post subject:  

We are Puppy!
Resistance is futile!
Learn you must!

Puppy is Linux, but it is very much Puppy Linux Very Happy

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rockedge


Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 1874
Location: Connecticut, United States

PostPosted: Sun 17 May 2020, 22:13    Post subject:  

Mike Walsh wrote:
There'll always be somebody around at any hour of the day or night....


we are all over the planet, covering every continent every time zone...

Puppy Linux is like a highly over powered very small sleek sports car.....but once you can drive it.... all that you will see in front of you, is clear air.
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The_Vintage_Machine


Joined: 16 May 2020
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Tue 19 May 2020, 17:59    Post subject:    

Thank you all! This is the best Linux community I've found, really.

I've tried Dpup Stretch, Buster, Bionic, Atomicpup, Xenial and they didn't work better than Slacko. Slacko has worked peeeeeeerfectly fine.

I've ran the process manager on all the distributions and when I open the web browser which came with each distro the CPU usage goes from at 5% of usage to a 99%, it's crazy.

But in Slacko I was able to download an updated Firefox version (68.8.0esr and I hope someone will keep that updated because is easy to use and update from the repositories Laughing) and I'm able to open multiple tabs, including YouTube.

Regarding Meltdown and Spectre, this processor is not vulnerable to those vulnerabilities, so it's fine. I just want this computer for my family to watch movies, YouTube and basic web searches. So I think I'm fine with Slacko, I like it.

If there is a tutorial to change the kernel for another one just let me know. I don't have idea if that is possible or if will improve features, security or performance but will be fun!

Regards!
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8Geee


Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 2190
Location: N.E. USA

PostPosted: Tue 19 May 2020, 20:25    Post subject:  

I will opine that while the Slackware 14.1 runs about the same as the 'Puppies', the general size of OS and memory consumption might favor puppies. I also have an Atom-netbook, and these pups can be very light and strong, like a Jack Russel Terrier. Admittedly... its the browser that bogs down a lot of Atom-netbooks, especially with 1Gb memory.

And thanks for trying out AtomicPup.

8Geee

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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 6397
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Tue 19 May 2020, 20:37    Post subject:  

The_Vintage_Machine wrote:
Thank you all! This is the best Linux community I've found, really.


Ah, we do try..... Very Happy

TBH, if you like the ESR Firefox releases, I did a 'portable' version, based on Fredx181's portable of mainline Quantum.....which you can even run from a flash drive (if you want), 'cos it's completely self-contained, profile & all.

See here:-

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1033182#1033182

(They're not bang-up-to-date any more, but they'll update themselves soon after firing-up for the first time anyway...) Smile


Mike. Wink

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The_Vintage_Machine


Joined: 16 May 2020
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed 20 May 2020, 00:54    Post subject:  

Quote:
And thanks for trying out AtomicPup.


Nothing to thanks. When I tried it and saw the GUI I felt something interesting, it had a "home made" look. It was a very special feeling, because it doesn't look like something a business does like a regular and "super sophisticated"GUI, it has your touch, it showed tour creativity. Like a hand made craft. Very nice. Thank you.

Quote:
BH, if you like the ESR Firefox releases, I did a 'portable' version, based on Fredx181's portable of mainline Quantum.....which you can even run from a flash drive (if you want), 'cos it's completely self-contained, profile & all.

See here:-

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1033182#1033182
Sure I'll try it! Thanks!

And mikeslr already responded me with link about how to swap kernels:

Quote:
This posts explains How to Swap kernels manually, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1057910#1057910. Some recent puppies have a built in application to do that.


So I think I have everything to get started!

Thank you all!
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13981
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Wed 20 May 2020, 13:03    Post subject:  

One thing about swapping kernels.

Depending on what the age of the computer is.

A very new Linux kernel, may not have support, for a very old computers hardware. kernel versions 4 or 5.
The newer kernels, have removed support for some of the very old hardware.

A very new computer, may only have full hardware support, only in the newer or newest kernel 5 versions.

I tried Puppy, on a very new computer, and had to update the kernel to latest version 5, to get all the hardware supported.

The Linux kernel is mostly hardware support and drivers.

This is why, in developing a new version of Puppy.
What Linux kernel is going to be in it and how that kernel is configured, is really looked at, closely.

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The_Vintage_Machine


Joined: 16 May 2020
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed 20 May 2020, 20:30    Post subject:  

Quote:
This is why, in developing a new version of Puppy.


Are you guys developing a new official Puppy Linux?

Last edited by The_Vintage_Machine on Thu 21 May 2020, 02:16; edited 1 time in total
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13981
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Wed 20 May 2020, 21:14    Post subject:  

Someone is always working on some version of Puppy.
Who really knows what may be the next official Puppy.
There are several possible versions in the works.
Usually, they start out with a topic in, Puppy Projects section, of this forum.

There is always a new derivative version, showing up, in the Puppy Derivatives section.

Becoming a official Puppy version, is up to the Puppy master,
01micko.

Quote:
What is an official Puppy Linux distribution?
A: It must meet two conditions. 1) It must be built using Woof-CE and its build “recipe” should be in woof-distro. 2) It must be endorsed as “official” by the Puppy Master.

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The_Vintage_Machine


Joined: 16 May 2020
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu 21 May 2020, 17:37    Post subject:    

Quote:
It must be endorsed as “official” by the Puppy Master.




Aaaaaalright. I'll start playing as soon as I'm ready. First I think will be better to stick on the Puppy School to understand the concepts, so I can know what I'm doing instead been an "empiric expert".
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