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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
BusterDog + build system (no-systemd)
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4209
Location: holland

PostPosted: Tue 05 Nov 2019, 18:34    Post subject:  

Hi Ken,

Quote:
I don't seem to have any issues in this respect with busterdog so all to the good. However, I have had a problem with resizing the savefile (changes.dat) which I put in 'live'. I initially made it 1GB. I then decided to install arduino. I did this via synaptic. It was to take up a bit over 400MB so I thought I would make the save file 500MB larger. The process seemed to work OK. The only thing I noticed that might be relevant was that adding the extra 500MB seemed to take very little time. When installing arduino I started to see errors about there being no room as well as an on screen box telling me I had less than 30MB of space left. I attempted to cancel the install. I then had trouble shutting down. I had to use ctrl-alt-backspace then power off. Using another puppy I checked the size of changes.dat and it showed as 1500MB. However, I am sure it was not. I removed changes.dat and started again but got errors with synaptic so I decided on a complete new install. I seemed to remeber reading that it was not a good idea to try to expand the savefile so this time I started with a 2GB savefile. I was able to install arduino and I also installed abiword without problems. I am sure I increased the size of devuandogs savefile without these problems. I have also noticed that when clicking on the menu icon to bring up the menu it seems to appear much more slowly than it did with devuandog. These might just be problems peculiar to me but I'd be interested to know if anyone else has had these problems.


Was the savefile in use (mounted) by the system ? Actually the text from the resize program is wrong, "recommended to use unmounted savefile" should be "not possible to resize mounted savefile", I will change that soon. I tested resizing unmounted savefile and it went well.
That it showed as 1500MB but in reality 500MB is a sign of failed resizing and you did good by deleting it.
Can't you use savefolder ? Much more convenient.
Yes the menu has a small delay on 32-bit version, a bit annoying indeed (on 64 bit version it's ok), will try to fix in next ISO.

Fred

_________________
Dog Linux website
Tinylinux blog by wiak
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backi

Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 1852
Location: GERMANY

PostPosted: Wed 06 Nov 2019, 04:33    Post subject:  

Hi keniv !
You wanted to install arduino ?
no need for this to install .
Do you know how to use Apps as squashfs files (load/unload)....(for example vlc.squashfs ) .Keeps apps outside of the Save this way....and keeps save File/Folder small .
Somewhere in (i think Menu>Modules(or Accessories) >look for AptToSfs ...,.
Start it...... choose a Partition or Place where to store your resulting arduino.squashfs
.....and type in arduino .......wait ...choose Type of compression and ....simsalabim....if everything went fine ....you get your arduino.squashfs....
proceed as usual .
Just start it on Demand ...or put it in the live Folder to activate it automatically on Boot ...somehow Puppy Style....no need to install .
So most of my Applications are not installed .......use them only on Demand via squashfs Files .
I like that modular Style .

AptToSfs is a real Gem... mostly overlooked.......i love it ......Thank you Fred !

Regards !
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backi

Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 1852
Location: GERMANY

PostPosted: Wed 06 Nov 2019, 04:50    Post subject:  

Hi keniv !
B.T.W ......dont know on which Type of Partition you Installed this Dog .
And which Type of boot Option (menu.lst)
Please report .
Think it is better to use a boot Option with changes Folder instead of a changes.dat because it automatically fits to your Savings and more people are using it.So a better Chance to get Help .
But there are some Type of Partitions you can only use a changes.dat File .
Probably ntfs and/or Fat Partitions ???.....not sure .....never used it.
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Sebi72

Joined: 06 Nov 2019
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Wed 06 Nov 2019, 14:21    Post subject:  

Hi Fred!
I'm running BusterDog on an Elitebook 8560p laptop.
Audio: Card-1: Intel 6 Series / C200 Series Family High Definition Audio driver: snd_hda_intel
Sound Server: ALSA v: k4.19.0-6-amd64
If I start dogradio or yradio, the sound system will crash.
But if I run a youtube video in my browser before then everything is fine.
The start menu is slower on 64-bit systems than on DevuanDog.
Otherwise, congratulations on the super little distro.
Sorry for the bad English.
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3546
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Wed 06 Nov 2019, 15:01    Post subject:  

Hi Sebi72,

Welcome to the Kennels. Very Happy

Never apologize for not be a Native English Speaker. It's a 'back-handed' way of reminding us who are only monolingual of that limitation.

By the way, your English is great.
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cthisbear

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 4455
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Wed 06 Nov 2019, 17:41    Post subject:  

fredx181:

A few years ago the Puppy forum was getting a little silent.
And then all these variants started to happen.
Like Pussy Linux...always made me smile that one by sickgut.

Pussy: potentially a Puppy with a perfect package manager

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=69475

https://pussy-linux.weebly.com/

I think sickgut had issues and sadly left us and then a surge of
distros came our way. Not Pups but they had a Puppy look and feel.

I don't always understand them.
I didn't always download them.

But I thank you and all the others for their efforts and keeping the
Murga Forum a happy place to sit.

Cheers....Chris.
Don't tell me mum I've been nice.
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keniv

Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 566
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Wed 06 Nov 2019, 17:48    Post subject:  

Hi Fred,

Quote:
Was the savefile in use (mounted) by the system ?


Well I think it would be as during boot up I see something like,
Code:
mnt/sda1/31119busterdog/live/changes.dat

and at the end of the boot up process all the changes I have made in setting it up to suit me plus the things I have installed are all there. I have never tried to unmount it. Do I use the mount/unmount tool to do this? I will try resizing an unmounted savefile and see if it works that way. By the way is it possible in the dogs to have two savefiles and choose which to use on booting up in the same way as in the pups. If so this would let me experiment with one while keeping my 2GB working version in tact.

Quote:
Can't you use savefolder ?


I have only tried this once and it did not succeed. However, it was with lucid5287 and I'm now not sure if it is in fact possible to do it with the lucid pups. The result is I have no experience of doing this.
Thanks for the info on the menu delay. I'm glad it's not just me.

Hi backi

Quote:
dont know on which Type of Partition you Installed this Dog .


I have a copy of XP and an installed copy of Ubuntu Mate on this machine. XP plus two dogs and some pups are on one of two drives. It's formatted as ntfs and the pups and dogs are frugal installs. Ubuntu is on the second drive formatted as ext3. I use grub2 from Ubuntu to boot all these.

Quote:
Do you know how to use Apps


I have never used an app on linux as I thought they were mainly for 64bit and I only have 32bit. I have loaded and unloaded sfs files on the pups. I do it with wine.

Quote:
Do you know how to use Apps as squashfs files..............look for AptToSfs ...,.


No I've never tried this but it would be worth a try as arduino is quite a big thing at over 400MB. Is there an advantage in keeping it out of the savefile?
Hope I've covered everything.

Regards,

Ken.
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3546
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Wed 06 Nov 2019, 18:06    Post subject:  

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong. But I think you're doing it right. ".dat" can only be used on Fat32 and ntfs formatted partitions. Your Windows partition is one or the other, probably ntfs. Folders can only be used on Linux formatted partitions. Your Ubuntu Mate is on one. If you wanted, you could locate 'dogs' and 'puppies' there. Mate won't mind. In fact, Mate being mindless won't even know. Laughing
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keniv

Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 566
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Thu 07 Nov 2019, 06:00    Post subject:  

Hi mikeslr,
The two drives are respectively 40 and 20MB. The best one is the 40MB and is the one formatted as ntfs. I still need XP as I have a couple of ESP32+CAM modules. I use Arduino to send code to them. The addon files to do this are not available for the linux version of Arduino so I have to use the Win version. I like having the pups and dogs as frugal installs and it can be useful to have some extra space formatted as ext3. I rather not do a full install on this drive if I can avoid it.

Regards,

Ken.
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3546
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Thu 07 Nov 2019, 10:40    Post subject: Questions about Apt2SFS  

Hi keniv,

It's been a while since I ran a 'debian dog'. I keep meaning to set one up. But as cthisbear mentioned, the Devs have been rather active. Lots of new OSes to explore. And then there's the real world to contend with. Beyond that, I don't trust that my memory is entirely accurate about details. Hopefully, backi, who brought the subject up, will reappear to provide some guidance. After all, "No good deed should go unpunished." Laughing Or someone else.

About Apps being only for 64-bit Oses, I think you're referring to AppImages, most of which are. But what backi was referring to is the tool, Apt2SFS --I think built into all 'debian dogs'-- which creates a squashfile --the 'dogs' version of what in Puppies would be called an SFS*, Squash File System. As you know, application SFSes can be loaded and unloaded on the fly.

Saintless and fred developed the Apt2SFS tool some time ago. http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=773224#773224. I don't recall if there have been any revisions to the instructions provided by that post. My recollection is that once the squashfile is created you can place it anywhere, browse to it and load and unload it 'on-the-fly'. There's a folder --whose name I've forgotten-- within a 'debian dogs' main folder. If placed there, my recollection is that it will be automatically loaded on bootup.

However, I'm not sure if an ntfs partition can serve as the location for building a Squashfile. That may require a Linux partition --you might be able to mount, then specify 'Ubuntu Mate's'-- or have to build it in RAM.

Lest it be forgotten, you asked about creating a 2nd .dat file so that you can experiment without loosing your functional one. That should be possible. But, I don't recall if the same technique for Puppies can be used:

(1) Boot pfix=ram** > so as not to load your .dat file.
(2) Move (or maybe rename by changing the ending of) your current .dat file; e.g. xxx.bak or xxx.dat1.
(3) Shut down to create a new .dat.

Of whether if you don't do (2) you'll be offered a choice during bootup of which .dat to use.
-------
* FYI, the last time I ran a 'debian dog', I was able to use several SFSes built for Puppies just by changing their 'endings'; i.e. APPLICATIONS.sfs to APPLICATION.squashfs, Or maybe I ran them "as is". As I said, it's been a while.

**You should be able to boot "pfix=ram" by editing your menu.lst and rebooting.
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dancytron

Joined: 18 Jul 2012
Posts: 1413

PostPosted: Thu 07 Nov 2019, 13:49    Post subject:  

Boot pfix=ram can't be used in Debian Dog.

The same thing can be accomplished by simply removing the "changes=[whatever]" entry. edit :In porteus boot. Debian boot is different.

There are sample explanations of the basic booting setups in the top directory of the iso file.
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backi

Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 1852
Location: GERMANY

PostPosted: Thu 07 Nov 2019, 14:18    Post subject:  

Hi Dancytron !
Booting without changes can be done .
One Example for XENIALDOG i am using .

Booting always fresh Mode :

title XENIALDOG - Always fresh
find --set-root /XENIALDOG/casper/vmlinuz
kernel /XENIALDOG/casper/vmlinuz from=/XENIALDOG noauto nomagic base_only norootcopy
initrd /XENIALDOG/casper/initrd1.xz

This works with Xenial or Bionic Dog (so the UBUNTU Dogs):
Probably does work for the Debian Dogs ..........but have to be appropriately modified for the Debian Dogs .....casper has to replaced with live....and so on .
Probably the Line "noauto nomagic base_only norootcopy" does the magic when applied to the Grub4dos menu.lst to boot without savings .
Not sure .
Therefore we need to know what Grubloader Keniv is using and how the menu.lst looks like .
But it is more easily done as you described .
All those Problems can be avoided by placing the live Folder onto a ext/2/3/4 Partition ......less complicated ......more common .
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dancytron

Joined: 18 Jul 2012
Posts: 1413

PostPosted: Thu 07 Nov 2019, 14:25    Post subject:  

Here are my BusterDog menu.1st Grub4dos entries.

#More linux manual frugal installs

Quote:
title BusterDog (sda2) noauto from=/BusterDog/ changes=EXIT:/BusterDog/ save changes on exit
root (hd0,1)
kernel (hd0,1)/BusterDog/live/vmlinuz1 noauto from=/BusterDog/ changes=EXIT:/BusterDog/
initrd (hd0,1)/BusterDog/live/initrd1.xz

title BusterDog copy2ram (sda2) noauto from=/BusterDog/ changes=EXIT:/BusterDog/
root (hd0,1)
kernel (hd0,1)/BusterDog/live/vmlinuz1 noauto copy2ram from=/BusterDog/ changes=EXIT:/BusterDog/
initrd (hd0,1)/BusterDog/live/initrd1.xz

title BusterDog for upgrade (sda2) noauto from=/BusterDog/ changes=/BusterDog/ save changes as they are made
root (hd0,1)
kernel (hd0,1)/BusterDog/live/vmlinuz1 noauto from=/BusterDog/ changes=/BusterDog/
initrd (hd0,1)/BusterDog/live/initrd1.xz

title BusterDog (sda2) No Changes from=/BusterDog/
root (hd0,1)
kernel (hd0,1)/BusterDog/live/vmlinuz1 noauto from=/BusterDog/
initrd (hd0,1)/BusterDog/live/initrd1.xz
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backi

Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 1852
Location: GERMANY

PostPosted: Thu 07 Nov 2019, 14:27    Post subject:  

Hi Keniv !
No need to do a full Install of BusterDog !

Quote:
The two drives are respectively 40 and 20MB.


Two Drives or Partitions ?
Are you sure ....not 40 GB and 20 GB ?
I assume your BusterDog is on the 40GB ntfs Partition ????

How did you partition the 20 Gb Partition ?

Post your menu.lst

@dancytron
You have ext2/3/ or /4 Partitions ....therefore you can use changes Folder .
Keniv is using a changes.dat File (probably) either on a fat or ntfs Partition

It is better recommended for Keniv placing/transplanting his Buster Dog live Folder to an ext2/3/4 Partition, if possible.....to use a changes FOLDER (instead a changes.dat FILE) ,to get better Support .
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keniv

Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 566
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Thu 07 Nov 2019, 15:34    Post subject:  

Hi All

@backi

Quote:
Two Drives or Partitions ?
Are you sure ....not 40 GB and 20 GB ?


Yes your quite right. Two drives. One 40GB the other 20GB My bad.

This is what I've tried tonight. I renamed my working changes.dat to changes1.dat. I rebooted busterdog and got a report that changes.dat could not be found. I was able to continue booting by pressing a key (I had seen this before). This allowed me to boot into a 'fresh' copy of busterdog. I setup wifi, locals and keyboard then elected to make a new savefile. I made it 500MB and named it changes.dat. This seemed to go well and when completed I shutdown. I saw the usual messages on screen and after saving the session the machine shutdown. I then renamed this new savefile to changes2.dat and my original savefile back from changes1.dat to changes.dat. I then rebooted busterdog which used the original savefile. This meant the new file I had made now named changes2.dat was unmounted as Fred suggested it had to be in order to resize it. I resized this file by 100MB but again I am not convinced it worked. Producing a 500MB savefile takes some time. Adding another 100MB probably took about a second. If I look at the properties of changes2.dat I get

Total size of files=600MB
Size on disk=500MB

Which again suggest to me it has not worked. I hope all of the above makes sense to you.

Regards,

Ken.
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