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BusterDog + build system (no-systemd)
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4204
Location: holland

PostPosted: Sun 03 Nov 2019, 11:49    Post subject:  BusterDog + build system (no-systemd)
Subject description: 32 and 64 bit ISO's and 'mklive-buster' build-kit
 

*** BusterDog + build system ***

See Here for a Buster-Live build system.

Based on the Debian 'Buster' branch but without systemd.
It's using special method (taken from AntiX) to avoid systemd by replacing systemd with 'elogind'.
(and some more, e.g. libsystemd replaced by libelogind), more background info Here

EDIT: For how to boot BusterDog with systemd, see here:http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1041071#1041071

Download: 32 and 64 bit ISO's, see Here, boot options (grub4dos): Examples-boot-codes.txt

DEVX and Firmware squashfs modules: Here

Custom repository: 32-bit 64-bit

Login details:
root with password root
puppy with password puppy

Specifications:
Built from scratch by using debootstrap and remastered afterwards.
Kernel: 4.19.0-6 (the kernel is separate module)
Choice of Boot Methods: porteus-boot and live-boot v3 (see for options: Examples-boot-codes.txt)
(EDIT: See post #4 for how to boot with older kernel 3.16 if possibly your hardware is too old for booting v4.19)
Default WM - OpenBox, with Desktop choices (run ‘Desktop Manager’ to choose):
- Tint2 panels
- PcmanFM providing the Desktop and lxpanel
- Tint2 bottom panel and rox-pinboard providing the Desktop
Option to switch to JWM window-manager
Default File Manager - PcmanFM with option to use rox.
Default Internet Browser - Palemoon.
See info and links about possible Palemoon issues (on some machines with Intel graphics) here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1018771#1018771

Thanks very much to everyone who has been involved with DebianDog, specially Toni (saintless), William (mcewanw), Terry (sunburnt), dancytron, belham2, rcrsn51, wiak, jd7654, backi, AndresC2, peebee and all who helped by giving feedback on the DebianDog threads.

Screenshots:

Openbox tint2 panels

Openbox with PcmanFM and lxpanel:

JWM


Fred

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Last edited by fredx181 on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 12:20; edited 13 times in total
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4204
Location: holland

PostPosted: Sun 03 Nov 2019, 11:49    Post subject:  

--- reserved ---
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4204
Location: holland

PostPosted: Sun 03 Nov 2019, 11:49    Post subject:  

*** Debian Buster and avoiding systemd **

Standard Debian Buster has systemd enabled, from the beginning I've been searching for a way to avoid systemd and used Devuan as a base DevuanDog 'Beowulf' [DISCONTINUED]

Now, DevuanDog is discontinued because I found a self-supporting way (not being dependent on Devuan) to avoid systemd:
BusterDog has similar method as AntiX by replacing systemd with 'elogind'.

This way BusterDog runs with the old initscripts method (sysvinit)

Fred

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anticapitalista

Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Sun 03 Nov 2019, 14:06    Post subject:  

fredx181 wrote:
*** Debian Buster and avoiding systemd **

Standard Debian Buster has systemd enabled, from the beginning I've been searching for a way to avoid systemd and used Devuan as a base DevuanDog 'Beowulf' [DISCONTINUED]

Now, DevuanDog is discontinued because I found a self-supporting way (not being dependent on Devuan) to avoid systemd:
BusterDog has similar method as AntiX by replacing systemd with 'elogind'.

This way BusterDog runs with the old initscripts method (sysvinit)

Fred


I would also suggest you install libpam-elogind-compat (if you haven't already done so). This make it even more systemd-free.
However, this package is not in Debian buster, but is available in the antiX buster repo.
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4204
Location: holland

PostPosted: Sun 03 Nov 2019, 14:24    Post subject:  

anticapitalista wrote:
I would also suggest you install libpam-elogind-compat (if you haven't already done so). This make it even more systemd-free.
However, this package is not in Debian buster, but is available in the antiX buster repo.


Yes, I did add it as well as the other libpam-elogind and libelogind0 packages from Antix repo , thanks to you and other Antix devs for your work !
https://doglinux.github.io/busterdog/i386/

Fred

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oui

Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 3499
Location: near Woof (Germany) :-) - 3 PC's: DELL SX280 750 MB Pentium4, Acer emachines 2 GB AMD64. DELL XPS15

PostPosted: Sun 03 Nov 2019, 15:01    Post subject:  

Hi Fred
I was an adept of your Dog's in the early past...
Until I did observe, that the start is more limited as out a Puppy-ISO because I have a PC and nothing else (I don't want to use some USB-Thing) and it is difficult to start a great collection of xyzDogs as you want.
And I find the size to high (ok, compared with "BusterPup" WoofCE, not an elephant but a mammoth, dog's are today really little... Referring to exact the same rel. from Debian)!
Barry Kauler did produce a 64 bit release as Quirky UNDER 150 Mb with all needing in it (complete office)!
Your dog is the double!
Kind regards
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anticapitalista

Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Sun 03 Nov 2019, 15:06    Post subject:  

You're welcome.

Good luck with your project.
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dancytron

Joined: 18 Jul 2012
Posts: 1413

PostPosted: Sun 03 Nov 2019, 15:17    Post subject:  

oui wrote:
Hi Fred
I was an adept of your Dog's in the early past...
Until I did observe, that the start is more limited as out a Puppy-ISO because I have a PC and nothing else (I don't want to use some USB-Thing) and it is difficult to start a great collection of xyzDogs as you want.
And I find the size to high (ok, compared with "BusterPup" WoofCE, not an elephant but a mammoth, dog's are today really little... Referring to exact the same rel. from Debian)!
Barry Kauler did produce a 64 bit release as Quirky UNDER 150 Mb with all needing in it (complete office)!
Your dog is the double!
Kind regards


Use the build script and you can build a very small version, especially if you know exactly what drivers you need and can leave out all the others.
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3541
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Sun 03 Nov 2019, 15:47    Post subject:  

Hi Qui,

There was a time, 1959, when eggs sold for 53 cents a dozen. Of course, the 1959 dollar had four and a half times the purchasing power of today's. Times change.

In 2003, when Puppy's first version appeared, 512 Mbs of RAM cost $ 70 +/-. Today --even ignoring improvements-- 8 Gbs of RAM costs $45 +/- https://jcmit.net/memoryprice.htm. In 2003 most computers shipped with 256 Mbs of RAM; today at least 4 Gbs. The decline in "Storage" costs are similar. https://jcmit.net/diskprice.htm

If you have an old computer with limited RAM and Storage and incapable of expansion, the size of Puppy's ISO and its 'memory-footprint' are meaningful. And perhaps, in the grand scheme of things, limiting the energy consumption required by more RAM and larger Storage is also meaningful. Otherwise, the argument amounts to "Yes, I can drive 10 miles to my job. But, I can also walk."

Last edited by mikeslr on Sun 03 Nov 2019, 16:06; edited 1 time in total
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dancytron

Joined: 18 Jul 2012
Posts: 1413

PostPosted: Sun 03 Nov 2019, 15:54    Post subject:  

I've install the 64 bit iso with regular manual frugal install.

All seems to work as usual, my linked firefox portable works (I am posting from it now).

I will uninstall palemoon and some of the other extra stuff, test the remaster, and try to install my oem nvidia drivers as time permits.

Dan
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backi

Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 1845
Location: GERMANY

PostPosted: Sun 03 Nov 2019, 16:17    Post subject:  

Oui wrote :
Quote:
Hi Fred
I was an adept of your Dog's in the early past...
Until I did observe, that the start is more limited as out a Puppy-ISO because I have a PC and nothing else (I don't want to use some USB-Thing) and it is difficult to start a great collection of xyzDogs as you want.
And I find the size to high (ok, compared with "BusterPup" WoofCE, not an elephant but a mammoth, dog's are today really little... Referring to exact the same rel. from Debian)!
Barry Kauler did produce a 64 bit release as Quirky UNDER 150 Mb with all needing in it (complete office)!
Your dog is the double!
Kind regards


To be honest .....find this kind of Argumentation a bit strange/confusing .Can`t really comprehend
But O.K ........it is your Point of View .

But i have another "Problem" with the whole "Buster" Series/Families (Devuan Dog -Buster Dog - DpupBuster- BusterPup )......all of them are increasing Temperature of my Machine to an unacceptable Degree... even running idle.No Problems with Stretch .
Could not find out the Reason till now .
Can/will not use them for that (Reason) .

But i am a very happy Camper with Xenial and Bionic Dog .
......best Thing since sliced Bread ....in my humble Opinion

Last edited by backi on Sun 03 Nov 2019, 16:53; edited 2 times in total
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oui

Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 3499
Location: near Woof (Germany) :-) - 3 PC's: DELL SX280 750 MB Pentium4, Acer emachines 2 GB AMD64. DELL XPS15

PostPosted: Sun 03 Nov 2019, 16:39    Post subject:  

hI mike

\mikeslr wrote:
Hi Qui,

There was a time, 1959, when eggs sold for 53 cents a dozen. Of course, the 1959 dollar had four and a half times the purchasing power of today's. Times change.

In 2003, when Puppy's first version appeared, 512 Mbs of RAM cost $ 70 +/-. Today --even ignoring improvements-- 8 Gbs of RAM costs $45 +/- https://jcmit.net/memoryprice.htm. In 2003 most computers shipped with 256 Mbs of RAM; today at least 4 Gbs. The decline in "Storage" costs are similar. https://jcmit.net/diskprice.htm

If you have an old computer with limited RAM and Storage and incapable of expansion, the size of Puppy's ISO and its 'memory-footprint' are meaningful. And perhaps, in the grand scheme of things, limiting the energy consumption required by more RAM and larger Storage is also meaningful. Otherwise, the argument amounts to "Yes, I can drive 10 miles to my job. But, I can also walk."


that is not the question! absolut not!!!

some fine OMG did count that a washing machine (washing robot) for private house use cost more water to be produced as it willl use along it's live as washing machine to wash your clothes!!! that is the real question!

I did meet Barry Kauler for the first time about 2003 on the forum of the 1 single FD-Floppy graphic distribution «MENUET»! I was immediately adept of his views (preparing so me to become adept of the new born Puppy Linux). 1 single face FD-Floppy, there are maximal 1500 kB!

The humans did produce since 30 years billions of PC's and the most of them will be have an extremely short live time and will finish in an public incinerator without recycling, polluting our atmosphere and responsible for great catastrophes

And the defenders of smarts informatic solution have in your opinion to abandon that position and forget the the desirable use of old PC's because of a lot of newer PC's at cheap costs? It is nonsense as long the old PC's can do what users require: look ebay / youtube / the news in news paper / contribute to a forum / send some birthday wishes and look for some pornos (I will confront you will the real needs!) or listen some evangelisation's stuff....

Puppy did never include some stuff to write music sheets (or show then to play then) - I suppose there is NO NEED for as much culture or educational targets Rolling Eyes ...

But for compatibility with the rest of the world, we still need current systems:

You can open no web site any more if you log in in the old browser integrated in Star-Office 5.1 (the grand-ma of OpenOffice) if you start it from a live CD unmodified!

We need actual

smart PUPPY's

as Puppy's always were as long Barry did supply us

(Thank you very much Barry for all your efforts and your wonderful other pages about minimalistic like EveWEB, minimalist travel and camping etc.!)


Backi: I suppose that also PC's consume water to be produced before they are shipped (but it is not possible to compare it with the quantity used at use time! That is the only difference...)
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4204
Location: holland

PostPosted: Sun 03 Nov 2019, 17:42    Post subject:  

@oui
Quote:
Until I did observe, that the start is more limited as out a Puppy-ISO because I have a PC and nothing else (I don't want to use some USB-Thing) and it is difficult to start a great collection of xyzDogs as you want.


Why it's difficult ? You mean several 'Dog' systems as frugal install on hard disk ? It's possible very easy. (or maybe I misunderstood what you mean exactly Question ).

@dancytron, thanks for testing, looking forward to your further test reports.

@backi, can you try this? (to test if you have same (over)heat problem) It's lighter than Devuandog (at least it feels like it is for me)

Fred

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dancytron

Joined: 18 Jul 2012
Posts: 1413

PostPosted: Sun 03 Nov 2019, 18:16    Post subject:  

backi wrote:
Oui wrote :
Quote:
Hi Fred
I was an adept of your Dog's in the early past...
Until I did observe, that the start is more limited as out a Puppy-ISO because I have a PC and nothing else (I don't want to use some USB-Thing) and it is difficult to start a great collection of xyzDogs as you want.
And I find the size to high (ok, compared with "BusterPup" WoofCE, not an elephant but a mammoth, dog's are today really little... Referring to exact the same rel. from Debian)!
Barry Kauler did produce a 64 bit release as Quirky UNDER 150 Mb with all needing in it (complete office)!
Your dog is the double!
Kind regards


To be honest .....find this kind of Argumentation a bit strange/confusing .Can`t really comprehend
But O.K ........it is your Point of View .

But i have another "Problem" with the whole "Buster" Series/Families (Devuan Dog -Buster Dog - DpupBuster- BusterPup )......all of them are increasing Temperature of my Machine to an unacceptable Degree... even running idle.No Problems with Stretch .
Could not find out the Reason till now .
Can/will not use them for that (Reason) .

But i am a very happy Camper with Xenial and Bionic Dog .
......best Thing since sliced Bread ....in my humble Opinion


Have you tried setting the CPU governor speed?

William has a app that does it. Maybe try powersave mode.

The only time I get temp issues is when remastering with XZ compression. I change to powersave and that fixes the problem.

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=972662#972662
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4204
Location: holland

PostPosted: Sun 03 Nov 2019, 18:37    Post subject:  

Quote:
The only time I get temp issues is when remastering with XZ compression. I change to powersave and that fixes the problem.


For info: the main 01-filesystem.squashfs from Busterdog is XZ compressed. Also it may help converting it to GZIP compression (or even better to LZ4) from pcmanfm right-click > Convert-SFS

Fred

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