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Raspberry Pi Buster Raspup RC
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Brown Mouse

Joined: 09 Jun 2009
Posts: 543

PostPosted: Sun 15 Sep 2019, 09:19    Post subject:  

Testing Raspup Buster Beta on a PI model 3B with a clean install.

This time I made a Swap partition to see if it may help with the low ram issues.

Managed to alter the boot sequence on this one and it now boots and loads the savefolder as default.
Also set it to auto save at shutdown.

Vivaldi is doing fine with sound from Tunein radio.

Thanks for incorporating mhWaveEdit in this one.

👌😀👍
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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15544
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Wed 18 Sep 2019, 05:25    Post subject:  

Dear Raspberries and Dorgs of Puppi Wink

Using the same micro SD card as for the Rpi 4 I have booted and set up Puppi Raspup beta 8.1 for the Rpi 3b Very Happy

Setup:
I am using ext2 (very reliable) on the microSD card (as well as fat32 for the bootable partition)
- used simple network for internet connection
- sound (USB Planatronics headphones)
- used mtpaint to modify the default.png wallpaper (puppy reference/backgrounds) to say Puppi Raspup 8.1 on 4
- loaded dvx and Vivaldi SFS (Vivaldi takes about 6 seconds to load)
- changed desktop icons
- set time from online time server

- Booting time (my Rpi 3b+ setup has off/on switch, so this is from a cold boot) to when the desktop is complete and internet connected
1 min 7 seconds Shocked

Booting the Rpi 4 from the same micro-SD card with a similar set up
2 min 14 seconds Shocked

Be interested in others time.

That is slow? Even slower from the Rpi 4. So I wonder where the bottle necks are? Both are connecting to the same wifi router Confused

Tried to set vivaldi (loaded as an SFS)
as my default browser without success from within Vivaldi

Then tried manually with this code changed from midori which is the default browser
in the defaultbrowser file

Code:
#!/bin/sh
exec /usr/bin/vivaldi-stable "$@"


Nope ....
Have to run from menu for now ...

Anyway I am gonna install Scratch3 (not a Puppi devx language - but suitable for smart kids and idiot crustaceans) on the Rpi 4 Embarassed

Update Bum! [archaic English cursing] could not install Scratch3 visual programming language from Puppy install or command line apt-get Crying or Very sad

Puppi Linux
Tested on lobsters and more intelligent animals
Mr. Green

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Last edited by Lobster on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 04:49; edited 1 time in total
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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15544
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Thu 19 Sep 2019, 04:34    Post subject:  

Dear Friends of the Barking Raspuppers ... Wink

There I was listening to Mongolian Radio - a band called the Hoovers.
Using the inbuilt most excellent Puppi/Puppy Pmusic radio streamer ...

Worked beautifully outputting to HDMI TV/monitor speakers and USB Planatronics headphones
(basically click on Setup icon and sound, then test and change your input device) Easy as Pi.

However Lobsters are cantankerous creatures Rolling Eyes and want to output to some micro speakers attached to the Rpi 4 audio output.
This is the same one for ye olde audio output from the ancient days before USB ...

Could I? No. Embarassed This was similar to ye first Raspberry Pi and I think we solved it somehow. Can't remember how ...

Incidentally here is how to talk 'Apple BS' (note how I used
'beautifully' and 'most excellent' above) which is not as good
as the far more honest and quirky Leet Puppy Bow Wow
http://wikka.puppylinux.com/BowWow

Basically use superlatives to describe everything
that does its (Steve) Job.

So for example:
"Puppy is now running on all Raspberry Pi"
In 'Apple BS' becomes:
The truly amazing, beautiful and ultra thin Puppy is now working superbly on the best in class,
wonderful, Raspberry Pi 4. We call it Raspup PuppI World Beta.
We think you will love it!

[cue and engage rapturous staged employee applause]
As usual it is available in a range of stunning colours
including the gorgeous Raspberry Ripple, White Privilege and Quantum Black.


In Puppy Linux
Even the Trees have a Bark ...

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Smithy


Joined: 12 Dec 2011
Posts: 1067

PostPosted: Thu 19 Sep 2019, 18:47    Post subject:  

Well, because it is a captive market with little deviation in hardware, then optimisation should be straightforward for init readers, kernel boffins and init experts. A little loight reading below:

At the Linux Plumbers Conference Thursday, Arjan van de Ven, Linux developer at Intel and author of PowerTOP, and Auke Kok, another Linux developer at Intel's Open Source Technology Center, demonstrated a Linux system booting in five seconds. The hardware was an Asus EEE PC, which has solid-state storage, and the two developers beat the five second mark with two software loads: one modified Fedora and one modified Moblin.

How did they do it? Arjan said it starts with the right attitude. "It's not about booting faster, it's about booting in 5 seconds." Instead of saving a second here and there, set a time budget for the whole system, and make each step of the boot finish in its allotted time. And no cheating. "Done booting means CPU and disk idle," Arjan said. No fair putting up the desktop while still starting services behind the scenes. (An audience member pointed out that Microsoft does this.) The "done booting" time did not include bringing up the network, but did include starting NetworkManager. A system with a conventional hard disk will have to take longer to start up: Arjan said he has run the same load on a ThinkPad and achieved a 10-second boot time.

How they did it: the kernel

Step one was to make the budget. The kernel gets one second to start, including all modules. "Early boot" including init scripts and background tasks, gets another second. X gets another second, and the desktop environment gets two.

The kernel has to be built without initrd, which takes half a second with nothing in it. So all modules required for boot must be built into the kernel. "With a handful of modules you cover 95% of laptops out there," Arjan said. He suggested building an initrd-based image to cover the remaining 5%.

Some kernel work made it possible to do asynchronous initialization of some subsystems. For example, the modified kernel starts the Advanced Host Controller Interface (AHCI) initialization, to handle storage, at the same time as the Universal Host Controller Interface (UHCI), in order to handle USB (fig.3). "We can boot the kernel probably in half a second but we got it down to a second and we stopped," Arjan said. The kernel should be down to half a second by 2.6.28, thanks to a brand-new fix in the AHCI support, he added.

There's a hard limit of 75MB of reads in order to boot, set by the maximum transfer speed of the Flash storage: 3 seconds of I/O at 25MB/s. So, "We don't read the whole file. We read only the pieces of the file we actually use,"

In conclusion, Arjan said, "Don't settle for 'make boot faster.' It's the wrong question. The question is 'make boot fast'." And don't make all users wait because a few people run a filesystem that requires a module or sendmail on their laptops. "Make it so you only pay the price if you use the feature." Distributions shouldn't have to maintain separate initrd-based and initrd-free kernel packages, he said later. The kernel could try to boot initrd-free, then fall back if for whatever reason it couldn't see /sbin/init, as might happen if it's missing the module needed to mount the root filesystem.

https://lwn.net/Articles/299591/
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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15544
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Thu 19 Sep 2019, 21:40    Post subject:  

Hi Pi eaters

Sorry 'tis a bit rambling but I have recorded a 15 minute sleep inducing look at my Puppi Raspup 8.1 setup for youtube - below link
https://youtu.be/uu_99jpArks

- I installed and used the 'Simple Screen Recorder' from the Puppy package manager in the Beta. I then imported and edited my initial recordings from the micro-SD card into my Puppy desktop and used Openshot video editor to string together ...
- I cover sound and other setup, creating a simple wallpaper/desktop background with Mtpaint, my GROWL security program running and being tested on the ARM based Rpi4 etc

Notes:
- 'calculator' of course is spreadsheet
- devx refers to devx.sfs, which is our programming add on, download from the first post in this thread and place in the second partition (I used ext2)
- Vivaldi is very slow at the moment but once loaded is very comprehensive
t1.png
 Description   
 Filesize   57 KB
 Viewed   664 Time(s)

t1.png


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Last edited by Lobster on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 04:50; edited 1 time in total
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 5498
Location: GB

PostPosted: Fri 20 Sep 2019, 02:42    Post subject:  

re. Smithy: Fast booting is not a new concept. Once upon a time there was a fast booting Puppy. But, even before that, I had an (almost) instant booting project off an FD; think it was built by a Russian? Unfortunately that wasn't a complete system, not sure it was even Linux, and it couldn't do much except a couple of simple games. Promised to develop that system but can't remember if they did? Point is that concepts were established in days of yore. Got to be 'old' even to remember back then!
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Smithy


Joined: 12 Dec 2011
Posts: 1067

PostPosted: Fri 20 Sep 2019, 04:56    Post subject:  

Ha, yes Sage, that article is quite a long way back in time to the 2.6xx kernels.

I have a few niggles on standard recent Puppy bootups that I would like to remove.
I cracked open the init and read the readme,
noticed that a there was a comment line somewhere in the init where Barry said "Don't know what this is" So if he doesn't know, then no chance
will I know lol.

1. Searching for Puppy files......No thanks, just get on with the SFS.
2. Searching for optical drives..No thanks, no point if there aren't any on board.

I put puppy on someone's 10 notebook that had picked up some nasty stuff, and once it's up and the alien "look"
is got used to, it whizzes even on latest firefox and seems to handle the horrible state of the internet without blowing up.
I think they will go back to 10 because most are addicted to the infrastructure but whilst I trim and sanitise, it should be a safer option.
There's a lot going on in 10 behind the scenes judging by activity lights lol.

BTW if any woof ce guys are reading, the planner, calc and osmo desktop icon links need fixing (they bring up the wrong apps, tested on Phil's Bionic 64).

I have a special 7 that I butchered and it goes whoosh >> in secs "ready" on an ssd as a comparison.
To be fair, it "knows" all the hardware though.

Puppy boot, not bad, but it can be better imo. Especially if targetted to a known hardware set i.e Rasp or whatever.
Anyways in Puppyland, people do what interests them, which is cool.
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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 8731
Location: qld

PostPosted: Tue 24 Sep 2019, 06:12    Post subject:  

If I'm not responsive for some days it is because my home internet connection is [apparently] being upgraded to the NBN (refer main post).

HFC is what I'm getting, the finest of 20th century technology.. Rolling Eyes

Aren't we in the 21st century?

Oh, that's right.. Aussie, Aussie, Aussie, Oi, Oi, Oi. 🇦🇺

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spotted

Joined: 25 Jan 2018
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Tue 24 Sep 2019, 08:01    Post subject:  

On my 3B+ quite an improvement. The 3B+ dont like youtube or google maps, close to moving up to a Pi 4. Is a 64bit Raspuppy dead and buried, been holding off on buying a Pi 4 untill a 64 bit OS is out.
Improvements I would like to see to make it more like Fatdog. (the best OS in the universe)
CPU meter from FD
System statistics for the tray from FD
Spell checker for Geany
Cut and paste in and out of the terminal

My only niggles are that firefox and vivaldi are taking increasingly longer to load. out to 30 and 33 seconds. I have them installed using Steps method of 'install to spot', Dont know if that is causing it, it dont happen in FD. Emptied all the cache and thumbnails I could find, dont help.
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spotted

Joined: 25 Jan 2018
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Thu 26 Sep 2019, 10:05    Post subject:  

Has anyone been able to -
boot from SSD HD without needing a micro SD card to kick it off, program_usb_boot_mode=1 just dont work.
setup real time clock battery
setup a fan and configure to run when overheated
I have a battery and fan in a odroid that 'sitting on the shelf'
install video down loader for vivaldi, youtube dl needs python3, but when I go to package manager, errr, which one of the 5 thousand entries do I choose.

My phone connects using 'simple network setup' but 'usb tether' works better.

I have a wireless touchpad keyboard, it dont work on bootup, cant change boot options. This is from raspupinitmodules.txt
id_logitech_hidpp,hid_logitech_dj
how can I put that into bootmenu.txt if that will make my keyboard work on bootup.

Midori how to increase the font.
Cant load a saved webpage even though it is in spot/ downloads. permission denied, it thinks I am using bongo drums.

I cant make a savefile in the 2nd petition, it makes a file without the .4fs on the end and dont work. Easy fixed, it aint bongo drums, I increase the first petition out to 2 gigs.

I miss the 'do not remove your... flushing message as in Fatdog. (would like to know whats going on under the hood when it is doing that, garbage collection, trim)

Out of all of them, copy and paste in 'n out of the console and spell checker are the one I miss the most.
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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 8731
Location: qld

PostPosted: Sat 28 Sep 2019, 19:59    Post subject:  

spotted wrote:
Has anyone been able to -
boot from SSD HD without needing a micro SD card to kick it off, program_usb_boot_mode=1 just dont work.


Well, I tried, not working, however I believe if I have a suitable USB mass storage device it will. On an old sandisk cruiser blade I get the activity light going furiously but just wont boot. Other devices just don't work. I'm attempting to source a newer sandisk device.
EDIT: it seems it is booting, but display isn't working. Needs investigation.

spotted wrote:
setup real time clock battery
setup a fan and configure to run when overheated
I have a battery and fan in a odroid that 'sitting on the shelf'

Nope, don't have the hardware.

spotted wrote:
install video down loader for vivaldi, youtube dl needs python3, but when I go to package manager, errr, which one of the 5 thousand entries do I choose.


load the devx, might already be there. If not I'll look into it.

spotted wrote:
My phone connects using 'simple network setup' but 'usb tether' works better.


I'll look into that as I prefer to USB tether as well. EDIT: USB tether works fine from frisbee, using it now. No setup involved.. 'just works'.

spotted wrote:
I have a wireless touchpad keyboard, it dont work on bootup, cant change boot options. This is from raspupinitmodules.txt
id_logitech_hidpp,hid_logitech_dj
how can I put that into bootmenu.txt if that will make my keyboard work on bootup.


Not sure. My wireless keyboard/mouse works fine. It's logitech as well. Also, in Menu>>Setup>>Default Boot Option you can choose the save file to boot next. If only one then it will boot next and subsequently on clicking 'OK'.

spotted wrote:
IMidori how to increase the font.
Cant load a saved webpage even though it is in spot/ downloads. permission denied, it thinks I am using bongo drums.


Try adjusting the global font size Menu>Desktop>Font Manager. Midori isn't great but at least it works for browsing and CUPS. Firefox works ok but is a bit crashy with videos and stuff. Vivaldi seems rock stable and is very configurable.

spotted wrote:
I cant make a savefile in the 2nd petition, it makes a file without the .4fs on the end and dont work. Easy fixed, it aint bongo drums, I increase the first petition out to 2 gigs.


IDK what's going on there. I have successfully made save files with .2fs and .4fs on all 3 models I have in first and second partitions.

spotted wrote:
I miss the 'do not remove your... flushing message as in Fatdog. (would like to know whats going on under the hood when it is doing that, garbage collection, trim)


It isn't FatDog. The shutdown routine is completely different. Maybe we can put in a -verbose mode?

spotted wrote:
Out of all of them, copy and paste in 'n out of the console and spell checker are the one I miss the most.

Geany plugins are in the PPM, but you need to search. I might add to the main sfs. It has the spell checker.
Highlight and middle click should work for copy/paste in urxvt.

Thanks for testing.

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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 8731
Location: qld

PostPosted: Sun 29 Sep 2019, 07:18    Post subject:  

Beta2 (raspup-8.1.2) is out!

See the main post for info and download links.

IMHO this is almost RC.

Have fun testing Smile

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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15544
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Mon 30 Sep 2019, 04:09    Post subject:  

Very Happy

Thanks Mick. Cool

I have downloaded and installed. All went well. Laughing

Some notes:

- My previous install had an unformatted blank third partition (now gone thanks to gparted) Cool
- the devx reported an error when copied onto the first directory, seem to remember this happened last time and I put it in the second ext2 partition. This time I have ignored the error and left it in the first fat32 boot partition. Seems to be there ...
- I just booted up as a quick test, will give more feedback later ...
- [reserved for later editing]

Anyway congratulations. By the time Puppy9 is out we will be supporting 3 processors hopefully:

x86 32bit
x86 64bit
ARM

we are puppy
breeding wonderful
Very Happy

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spotted

Joined: 25 Jan 2018
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Wed 02 Oct 2019, 03:40    Post subject:  

Moved up to 812 and a Pi 4 at the same time.
New Geany has spell checker configerability, one down about ten to go.
Python 3 is in the devx, but discovered youtube-dl does not have a GUI, so only one YT downloader to rely upon.
Tried Frisbee for the first time, didnt seam to be doing anything so went clicking all over the place, maybe didnt wait long enough. Dont know what I did wrong, now it starts by its self after connecting the cable. if something is working dont try to fix it
Ligitech wireless keyboard, touchpad
id_logitech_hidpp, hid_logitech_dj dont get loaded until the .SFS's are loaded, then they are the first thing that shows up on the screen. Not going to be a problem, have a rollup silicon travel keyboard I dusted off that works if need be.

"Firefox works ok but is a bit crashy with videos and stuff. Vivaldi seems rock stable and is very configurable."

Yea, if firefox dont like a web page, it just wont load it or try to add a add on such as' status4evar' and a video downloader.

Gah. your tab just crashed

But can stop firefox writing to disk every 15 seconds.
The last time I went into youtube with firefox it started playing all the videos in the thumbnails, had to kill it.
I used to like the old Opera, it showed the speed the page was loading at. Bit disappointed vivaldi dont have that, showing the size of the page is not as good as the download speed. Theres a lot to learn with vivaldi, a lot of the options are not self explaining enough for me so only use it when firefox crashes on a page. Disk writes dont seam to be sorted in vivaldi like in firefox so use it only when necessary.

"I have successfully made save files with .2fs and .4fs on all 3 models I have in first and second partitions".

Now I know whats going on. When the keyboard didnt work, I set the time delay for the boot options from 100 to 1 for quicker boot and I was missing seeing the raspupsave entry in the boot options. With my keyboard I cannot choose the raspupsave anyhow. Now I boot from Micro-SD to a USB3 SSD and have the save file in a 'folder' 'recommended' besides the OS files in sda2 taking up the rest of the petition, no need to select the raspupsave entry in the boot menu. fixed. another one bights the dust.


" The shutdown routine is completely different. Maybe we can put in a -verbose mode?"

I mean the flushing message one gets when wanting to remove a flash drive, etc.
Its a good reminder to not rip out the drive until the OS does its thing. Just wanted to know what going on during flushing. Is it something like 'sync' after doing a 'dd' of an OS to a drive?

"Highlight and middle click should work for copy/paste in urxvt."

urxvt is missing that urxvt is laborious without 'paste' meh, policeman one finger I tried to swipe urxvt from odroid xu4. its 32 bit, but it didnt work.

@ crustration your missing one, theres 4
x86 32bit
x86 64bit
ARM
ARM 64
then micko has to do it all over again.
when raspberry pi come to their senses!!
Thanks for replying to our testing.
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zigbert


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 6606
Location: Valåmoen, Norway

PostPosted: Thu 03 Oct 2019, 13:43    Post subject:  

812 boots nicely on my B3+
Thumbs up!
This is fun Smile

The firewall trayapp is missing - maybe intended?

Will look deeper...

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