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looking for an updated 431 or similar
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cobelloy


Joined: 23 May 2005
Posts: 203
Location: Karratha W.Australia

PostPosted: Sun 30 Jun 2019, 21:03    Post subject:  looking for an updated 431 or similar  

Hi, I was a diehard puppy user back in the day when puppy was based on puppy, I still have an old Toshiba Tecra 8100 laptop (P3 700, 384meg) which does very well on 431 but struggles on anything with the new large 4x kernel, or has PAE built in, or UEFI (I think - those versions make the computer quite unusable)

I've tried a few 'lightweight' distros on it, but it can only boot from internal disk or CD (not DVD - even tho it has a DVD drive - or USB) and many of the "CD" images I have DL'd are 750-MB+ (eg. Bodhi) so you can't actually burn them to a CD - which I really don't understand, why have an alternate smaller CD image if its still too big to fit on a CD?? Anyway, so far I've tried tiny core, all the latest puppy images, lubuntu 10.04 (the last 32bit, non-PAE version), antix, and debian - I cant find any others that fit on a CD. None of them work, some do not boot up, some boot and install but barely run.

Is there a 431 fork with an older kernel but a modern web browser? that's really all I'm missing in 431, even a compatible pup or pet package for a modern lightweight browser would do (midori maybe?)

Am I looking for the impossible?
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cobelloy


Joined: 23 May 2005
Posts: 203
Location: Karratha W.Australia

PostPosted: Sun 30 Jun 2019, 21:05    Post subject:  

currently the laptop has a frugal install of 431
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Puppyt

Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 879
Location: Gatton, Queensland

PostPosted: Sun 30 Jun 2019, 23:37    Post subject:  

Hiyer cobelloy,
firstly my commendations to you for keeping that laptop in operation.

I don't have an answer for you, unfortunately. Reminds me that I have a Toshie Portégé 3840CT (P3 600MHz, 192 mb RAM) that I had dual-booted XP-lite with several flavours of Puppy - but cannot recall which, at this moment. IIRC TaZoC's LightHouse 4.43 and 5.03 versions worked well on it. Must dig it out of deep storage...

On my more comparatively recent P4 laptops (Dell 1100 like Mike Walsh reports success with in many of his posts; Rocky RT686) I have had success even with more recent Puppy5 and Puppy6 versions - but a nice linux swap partition is absolutely vital for general function (1.5 x your physical ram seems to be a good size - at least that's what I use). Happy to see radky's Dpup7.5 (rc4 - legacy kernel version) working on the Dell - albeit with a temporary SSD for testing.

Jumping sideways - although "Quirky", "Wary" and "Racy" Puppy branches have been officially retired, have you given them a go on your existing setup? ninotix made a fantastic Racy puplet here http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=90839 plus Puppus Dogfellow is still updating his Puppy 5.7x versions - even posting earlier today.

I would strongly stonglystronglystrongly suggest you use an SSD in exchange of your original (?) HDD. Has made remarkable improvements in the basic operation of all my "vintage" laptops (Panasonic CF52 Mk2, Lenovo T60, T61 and W500 - the Dell 1100 also due for a permanent SSD). I found that the distinction between "legacy" and "recent" laptop specifications is largely blurred, and I have yet to find a recent kernel that will not work with my P4+SSD configurations. But my testing is non-exhaustive, so please don't quote me.

The only potential drawback you might encounter is if your Tecra 8100 has one of those weird 50-pin ZIF or ATA hard drive configurations - the latter looks identical to a CF-card slot but with plastic "bollards" to stop you actually using a CF-card. In which case - you may have to hunt around for a specific adapter to match up with a more modern SSD with (generally) a SATA connector. If you want to take the SSD replacement route, it might be best to do a search on your specific HDD before you even crack open the laptop.
Just some suggestions. Good Luck Smile

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cobelloy


Joined: 23 May 2005
Posts: 203
Location: Karratha W.Australia

PostPosted: Sun 30 Jun 2019, 23:56    Post subject:  

Thanks, I have tried some ‘legacy’ puppies, I can try some more. I have a 256mb ram module in the mail so I can bump up to 512, not sure if I would do an ssd, those are a bit expensive for such an obsolete machine, but maybe the smallest possible one might be cheap enough, I’ve had this thing in bits many times already lol but I can’t remember if it’s a standard hdd connector, I think it is, pretty sure, the hdd is under a standard sort of easy access cover so it’s easy enough to check,

I’ll keep at it for now
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cobelloy


Joined: 23 May 2005
Posts: 203
Location: Karratha W.Australia

PostPosted: Mon 01 Jul 2019, 00:00    Post subject:  

I like this little computer because I pulled it out of a dumpster about a decade ago, who doesn’t love a free computer? I can’t face putting it back in the bin Sad
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Puppyt

Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 879
Location: Gatton, Queensland

PostPosted: Mon 01 Jul 2019, 00:33    Post subject:  

I hear you - on all counts!
My justification for upgrading to SSD in "obsolete" computers is that should the mbo or cpu etc die in the original laptop - you just swap your SSD and whatever other components you can salvage into you next recycling project. Yeah everyone has their own threshold with time/finances/principles for such quixotic endeavours. Myself I will never buy "new" again - "the newer they are, the faster they fail" seems to be the new ethos for technological consumables. Now no longer are the consumables the tools, but the consumers...

Rant over! Ironically what got me seriously upgrading my laptops was a newish Lenovo X300 motherboard/daughterboard fail. I was left with the ram and SSD (! WTF is this thing??) to recycle. And thus began a slow process of upgrading my other machines. In the past I had been using CFcard and SDcard ATA adapters in older laptops (e.g., Toshiba 430CDS with 16mb ram - which I wrote a "makers"-type thread for). Trouble was, I was restricted to smallish sized capacities, so things like FreeDOS and DOS gaming were ideal roles. If you are considering a new SSD purchase, consider that they are better value GB/$ as they get bigger - and will probably outlive your original laptop hardware now anyway, if you haven't been doing a cleanout service every 6mo or so...

With regards to your earlier point about Bodhi etc - I run Yumi on one of my Windows partitions, to have a constant turnover of distros loaded on a bootable USB memory stick. If you are having problems with booting from USB etc if those options aren't available in your BIOS, perhaps you could consider running PLOP on your CD drive? It has worked really well for me in previous projects https://www.plop.at/en/bootmanagers.html

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Last edited by Puppyt on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 01:38; edited 1 time in total
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Puppyt

Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 879
Location: Gatton, Queensland

PostPosted: Mon 01 Jul 2019, 00:39    Post subject:  

I nearly forgot - remember to test out your olde hardware (CD spinning, RAM, CPU, HDD) using a suite of software such as UBCD or Hirens Boot CD etc burnt onto a CD. I find MHDD32 especially useful for assessing age-related damage to my HDD's,
Good Luck!
EDIT - whups I see your point regarding expense - since your laptop is UDMA66 vintage or thereabouts, you will likely have a significant bottleneck even if you successfully swapped in a SATAii SSD with adapter. Would still operate faster, cooler, and better battery life than your existing HDD but it all comes down to that personal threshold tolerance thingo. Happy with my cheap 128GB Vaseky v800 which I have running in my ultrabay - rather than a CD/DVD drive. Samsung Australia is currently having a cashback promotion, I bought my last Samsung 500GB mSATA SSD, 860 EVO Series for around A$125 with P+H.

Why mSATA? had a spare SATA-msata adapter as I didn't research microSATA and mSATA formats properly for an earlier project Wink

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cobelloy


Joined: 23 May 2005
Posts: 203
Location: Karratha W.Australia

PostPosted: Mon 01 Jul 2019, 01:14    Post subject:  

so I just looked at ssd's on aliexpress, they are cheap enough ($20 for a 120) but - the old laptop has an old style IDE interface, and new disks only come in sata so I guess I cant do that, unless I can find an IDE mem card adapter?

looking at PLOP now too

Edit: no, they do exist, but are a little more expensive

Edit: a lot more expensive
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Puppyt

Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 879
Location: Gatton, Queensland

PostPosted: Mon 01 Jul 2019, 01:26    Post subject:  

Here for some adapter hijinks Smile Dell Inspiron 1100 and other "noughties" laptops
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cobelloy


Joined: 23 May 2005
Posts: 203
Location: Karratha W.Australia

PostPosted: Mon 01 Jul 2019, 01:41    Post subject:  

PLOP was a fail - "boot error, no boot device found, please retry it"

I burned the PLOP iso, booted the laptop from it, then selected USB (with a bootable Bodhi usb plugged in) and got the error Sad

it was a great tip, just didn't work on this old clunker
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Puppyt

Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 879
Location: Gatton, Queensland

PostPosted: Mon 01 Jul 2019, 01:55    Post subject:  

Sorry to hear that - I admit I have had similar issues with Plop - mostly as it didn't pick up on USB2.0 PCMCIA adapters, and I had to go back to the much slower USB1.1 port for booting.
Are you able to stipulate a boot order in your BIOS that includes a USB version?

P.S. Sometimes I have come across the 'gotcha' that the USB partition (etc) hasn't been set to boot, or that there is a missing boot code whatnot thingy in the root directory of the USB. That's why I find it easier to use something like Yumi - although some of the native Puppy multiboot avenues are also successful. What does Gparted say about your USB's boot flags? I think that might be an issue - not 100% sure...

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darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
Posts: 474
Location: Rakaia

PostPosted: Mon 01 Jul 2019, 03:10    Post subject: Re: looking for an updated 431 or similar  

cobelloy wrote:
Hi, I was a diehard puppy user back in the day when puppy was based on puppy, I still have an old Toshiba Tecra 8100 laptop (P3 700, 384meg) which does very well on 431 but struggles on anything with the new large 4x kernel, or has PAE built in, or UEFI (I think - those versions make the computer quite unusable)

I've tried a few 'lightweight' distros on it, but it can only boot from internal disk or CD (not DVD - even tho it has a DVD drive - or USB) and many of the "CD" images I have DL'd are 750-MB+ (eg. Bodhi) so you can't actually burn them to a CD - which I really don't understand, why have an alternate smaller CD image if its still too big to fit on a CD?? Anyway, so far I've tried tiny core, all the latest puppy images, lubuntu 10.04 (the last 32bit, non-PAE version), antix, and debian - I cant find any others that fit on a CD. None of them work, some do not boot up, some boot and install but barely run.

You don't have to give up on 4.31 as watchdog made a version of palemoon to work with it.


Is there a 431 fork with an older kernel but a modern web browser? that's really all I'm missing in 431, even a compatible pup or pet package for a modern lightweight browser would do (midori maybe?)

Am I looking for the impossible?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9iMb4UZBeFkay1SWjRkT2tzc00/view?usp=sharing

Watchdog mentions what needs updating to run palemoon .pet
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=953134#953134

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cobelloy


Joined: 23 May 2005
Posts: 203
Location: Karratha W.Australia

PostPosted: Mon 01 Jul 2019, 05:05    Post subject:  

Ive installed that palemoon .pet and the gtk and glib .pets also, but I seem to need dbus & dbus-glib, does anyone know where recentish .pets of those would be? I tried a forum search and I get 23 hits and most of the threads are in the 20-50 page range, and I don't have a day free to sit and trawl through them all looking for a dotpet that might not even be in there :'(
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cthisbear

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 4403
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Mon 01 Jul 2019, 07:20    Post subject:  

What about Precise-light ?

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=115843

"""""""""""''

Latest kernel. I have built 4.3 with the 2.6.30.5 kernel,

http://bkhome.org/archive/puppylinux/download/release-4.3.htm

""""""""

Seen this....

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1027621#1027621

I have built a small .pet for 32bit OS's which will place an entry on your internet menu which will download the latest Firefox, Palemoon and/or Seamonkey, install them to a drive of your choice, remember that drive even if the name changes (usb order of insertion), place an entry on the Internet menu and ask if you want to make it your default browser.

Running this way will save use of ram as the browser files are not uploaded to ram like Puppy.

Older operating systems may need an upgrade of Yad to get the gui functional. When you install this .pet it will offer to download:

http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/pet_packages-common32/yad-0.40.3-i686_common32.pet

to the root directory.

Chris.
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 2959
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Mon 01 Jul 2019, 08:11    Post subject:  

Your challenge is going to be to be able to run a modern browser with that hardware no matter what puppy you use. It's going to be a massive struggle. If you just want to browse, an old Opera browser may still be your best bet. A good alternative is to run Opera Mini with an emulator. I use that for day to day browsing (you can run this with old and new puppies and old hardware) and it works well. I only run a moden, big browser if I want to watch videos.
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