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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
the delta project
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Mon 17 Jun 2019, 02:13    Post subject:  the delta project
Subject description: a distro for the common man
 

http://smokey01.com/wanderer/


hi all


before i begin i would once again like to thank mr murga
for providing this forum for the puppy community
for all these years
if you are reading this
you might want to ask yourself
without this forum
would there be a puppy community
and all these great distros


the name of this project is the delta project
delta for change
and the first iso delta-1.iso
has been posted on the link on this top post

this thread is an attempt to start a project
that will build a distro that anyone
with even the simplest level of knowledge
can use understand and develop
the only entry level skill needed is to be able to read english

i have placed it on the puppy projects subforum
because it is intended to be of interest and use to the puppy community

it is not puppy
its base will start out as tinycore but it is not tinycore
dancytron was kind enough to remind me of the fact
that if you use the name of a product
you may confuse the issue of who is responsible for the work
that is the reason i will not use the pup or dog designation
and i will remove any id from the iso
so that it is not confused with tinycore

the problem with puppy for non gurus
is not the intricacies of high level computer science

but simple organization

puppy has been designed by and for gurus
and it has not been designed to be minimal and modular

so one is always fighting a losing battle
trying to make it into something
that structurally it wasn't designed to do

tinycore solves this problem
because it was designed to be minimal and modular from the onset
and because it is modular
it is a useful teaching tool
to identify what is needed for each application
which is the reason i choose it as the base

well there is it

i of course will continue to work on this project
but any comments or help will be appreciated

wanderer



here is the beginning of the howto
which i will put on the first post
so it is easy to find


delta howto 2

each time i change this howto
i will change the number
so that you can tell if your howto
is up to date

this is a project to make a very simple
(to use understand and develop)
distro and build system
that is modular minimal
and can use components from multiple sources

it consists of

1. the delta.iso

2. and a howto that will provide instructions on how to build it

the scripts contained in the howto
will be very simple
and annotated so one will know what is going on

the iso will contain all the tools needed to build the iso

if you want to participate in this project
the first thing that you need to do
is download the delta-1.iso
and try to get it to run
and try to load things from the tinycore repositories
and check out how the iso is structured

if you have a problem
post on the thread
so we can work out the bugs

over time we will build up the howto and iso
but of course this will take a little time


the delta iso is based on tinycore 9
and is composed of a number of parts

1. the bootloader

this is syslinux
and the important file here is syslinux.cfg
which determines what it displays and what is loaded

2. the kernel

this is the kernel that tinycore has built
one can change it if needed
but at this time i do not need to

3. the core.gz

this is a cpio archive
and can be opened and closed by the cpio command
the important file in here is tc-config
which is equivalent to the puppy init file
and loads the services on startup

4. the cde and tce directories

these are where the tinycore tcz files are stored
the cde directory is in the iso
the tce directory is on the hard drive for persistence

5. the home directory

this is a directory stored on the hard drive for persistence

6. the apps directory in /root in the core.gz

this is a directory that i have added
to allow sfs or uncompressed components
to be added in an alternative way

7. tcz files
these are just compressed sfs files with a different name
they are opened using the unsquashfs command
and closed using the mksquashfs command
they reside in the cde or tce directories

another big part of this project
is making new tcz sfs or uncompressed modules to add apps
this is done by taking a component from another source
and unsquashing it using uextract
using ldd to find its dependencies
modifying it
and then resquashing it using mksquashfs

what i do to keep things organized when i build an iso
is have a main directory with subdirectories for each task

delta-dev
mkboot
mkkernel
mkcore
mkcde-tce
mkhome
mktcz
mkiso

each directory holds what i need to do that particular task
scripts info components etc
and i add new directories as needed
the iso itself is where i get all the components

i will put the latest version of this delta-dev directory
in each delta iso

well this is the end of the 2nd howto draft
i will continue to add to it
until it is a comprehensive set of instructions and scripts

thank you for participating
in our little adventure

have fun

wanderer

Last edited by wanderer on Thu 20 Jun 2019, 10:44; edited 7 times in total
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darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
Posts: 617
Location: Rakaia

PostPosted: Mon 17 Jun 2019, 02:46    Post subject:  

Wiki Entry: http://wikka.puppylinux.com/The_Delta_Project
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1714
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Mon 17 Jun 2019, 02:57    Post subject:  

Hi wanderer,

I presume this supersedes corepup? If so I will replace corepup with this in "Distros created by members of puppy forum" thread along with other new projects that are in progress. Change won't be immediate because I'm busy at moment, but just checking re corepup.

wiak

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Check Firmware: www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1022797
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Mon 17 Jun 2019, 03:06    Post subject:  

hi guys

thanks for the replies and support

yes this replaces corepup

this i hope will be a more general build system
using components from multiple sources
and not directly tied to puppy

but providing the non guru
with a way to build distros
with the puppy concepts
as an alternative to woof-ce

wanderer
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darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
Posts: 617
Location: Rakaia

PostPosted: Mon 17 Jun 2019, 04:06    Post subject:  

wanderer wrote:
hi guys

thanks for the replies and support

yes this replaces corepup

this i hope will be a more general build system
using components from multiple sources
and not directly tied to puppy

but providing the non guru
with a way to build distros
with the puppy concepts
as an alternative to woof-ce

wanderer


Wanderer do you know or does any one know how to make this boot using grub4dos?

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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Mon 17 Jun 2019, 04:11    Post subject:  

hi darry

sorry

i have only used syslinux

you can go to the tinycore forum
and they will have the answer

right now this is tinycore 9

wanderer
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tallboy


Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 1462
Location: Drøbak, Norway

PostPosted: Mon 17 Jun 2019, 18:23    Post subject:  

Quote:
this thread is an attempt to start a project
that will build a distro that anyone
with even the simplest level of knowledge
can use understand and develop
the only entry level skill needed is to be able to read english


May I suggest an english manual explaining what all the different .isos in http://smokey01.com/wanderer/ are, where to start and what to do? I find both boo.txt and readme.txt to be of little value in that respect. Or is it intended for gurus that understand everything?

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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Mon 17 Jun 2019, 19:05    Post subject:  

hi tallboy

the only iso you want is delta-1.iso

the others are for corepup and tinycore
but i did not want to delete them because someone may still want them

however you make a good point
i think i will since they are confusing to have there

wanderer
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Mon 17 Jun 2019, 19:39    Post subject:  

hi all

as noted above the first iso of this project is the delta-1.iso
posted in the repository

just download it and play with it

eventually there will be a detailed howto on this project
but im just starting it now

here is the beginning of the howto
which i will put on the first post
so it is easy to find


delta howto 1

this is a project to make a very simple
(to use understand and develop)
distro and build system
that is modular minimal
and can use components from multiple sources

it consists of

1. the delta.iso

2. and a howto that will provide instructions on how to build it

the scripts contained in the howto
will be very simple
and annotated so one will know what is going on

the iso will contain all the tools needed to build the iso

since i have just begun this project
it will take a (short) while
to write up the howto
and expand the iso

to be continued

wanderer
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1714
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Mon 17 Jun 2019, 23:32    Post subject:  

darry19662018 wrote:
Wanderer do you know or does any one know how to make this boot using grub4dos?


For tinycore booting from grub4dos menu.lst you should find the info in following post link; you'd have to modify depending where you installed probably (and might need to move some parts around appropriately, as I did. Instead of just having main files in /, I moved into own tinycore32 directory as you'll see - makes it easier to use alongside existing pups and dogs that way.

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=990130#990130

wiak

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Check Firmware: www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1022797
tinycore/slitaz: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=990130#990130
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darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
Posts: 617
Location: Rakaia

PostPosted: Tue 18 Jun 2019, 04:22    Post subject:  

Thank you Wiak:)
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 3042
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Tue 18 Jun 2019, 10:57    Post subject:  

Which distribution of linux will this support in terms of software, etc. The one thing that I like about Windows is compatibility with software. With linux it's Ubuntu, Debian, etc. and not only that, changes from kernel version to kernel version.
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rockedge


Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 1219
Location: Connecticut, United States

PostPosted: Tue 18 Jun 2019, 11:07    Post subject:  

here are some of the Grub4Dos menu.lst entries for booting corepup
the corepups are frugally installed along side 20 puppy linux variants
for example /sdb1/Corepup-7/

Code:
title Corepup-7 jwm
  uuid 8a8ea99d-a1b0-4c43-b1a0-d4ce5c9c7dfa
  kernel /Corepup-7/boot/vmlinuz showapps tce=sdb1/Corepup-7/cde/ desktop=corepup-jwm waitusb=5
  initrd /Corepup-7/boot/core.gz
 
title Corepup-7 icewm
  root (hd0,0)
  kernel /Corepup-7/boot/vmlinuz showapps tce=sdb1/Corepup-7/tce/ desktop=icewm waitusb=5
  initrd /Corepup-7/boot/core.gz
 
title Corepup-7-65m jwm
  root (hd0,0)
  kernel /Corepup-7-65m/boot/vmlinuz showapps tce=sdb1/Corepup-7-65m/tce/ desktop=corepup-jwm waitusb=5
  initrd /Corepup-7-65m/boot/core.gz   

title Corepup-7-65m icewm
  root (hd0,0)
  kernel /Corepup-7-65m/boot/vmlinuz showapps tce=sdb1/Corepup-7-65m/tce/ desktop=icewm waitusb=5
  initrd /Corepup-7-65m/boot/core.gz

title Corepup-9 jwm
  root (hd0,0)
  kernel /Corepup-9/boot/vmlinuz showapps tce=sdb1/Corepup-9/tce/ desktop=jwm waitusb=5
  initrd /Corepup-9/boot/core.gz
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Tue 18 Jun 2019, 12:32    Post subject:  

hi nic007

the primary software repository for delta is tinycore linux
which it is already set up to do
and which has a complete set of apps
that can make a full distro

i will also (with the help of you gurus)
try to make a universal system
that downloads apps resolves dependencies and builds components
from any other source

nothing complex
just download that app
ldd dependencies
unsquash
modify
squash
and then have it for use later in a repository

just a simple set of instructions and scripts

not everything will work
but most stuff will

so we will will start out with a complete fully functional system
and can modify it and add to it at will

one good target for conversion
are all the puppy apps in the software subforum
since tcz and sfs files are both squashfs
and can both be mounted and symlinked to /root

the key is to keep everything very simple
and fully explained so that anyone
can use understand and develop it

i will be the test
because if i can understand it anyone can

wanderer
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3314
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Tue 18 Jun 2019, 14:30    Post subject:  

Wanderer,

I know that what I am asking for is time consuming and difficult. But it is necessary if your intention is something other than just increasing your number of posts. On some other Forums that will get you 'merit badges' and higher standing, maybe more privileges. On this Forum it does nothing beyond taking up space. It is necessary if, as you've stated, your intention is to provide

"a project
that will build a distro that anyone
with even the simplest level of knowledge
can use understand and develop
the only entry level skill needed is to be able to read English".

You are familiar with tiny core. We are not. For us --anyone-- to implement a corepup, even if you re-brand it, we have to know how to proceed. We need in one place a RECIPE.

Step 1. Do this.
Step 2. Do this....
Step ? Do this.

Reboot your computer into delta or corepup or whatever.

The RECIPE could be a GUI. Or it could be build-script containing #non-executable comments/Instructions/Alternative Choices#. Or just the text contained in a post immediately brought to the attention of a potential user.

Both Puppy and TinyCore are modular. But the names and perhaps purposes of their modules differ. How? Perhaps as an Introduction to that RECIPE --but in any event linked to from your first post-- explain the purpose of tinycore's modules: what they contain, do, and how they are put to use.
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