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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Bionic32-light - 27 April, 2019
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jrb


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1319
Location: Smithers, BC, Canada

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2019, 06:45    Post subject:  

musher0 wrote:
Hi jrb.

I am tempted to congratulate you, but... no ICU?

I realize the ICU library is huge. However, the acronym ICU standing for
"International Components for Unicode"

My apologies musher. I thought it was NSA spyware, "I see you". Wink Seriously I had only seen it referred to as a "database" to be used by various apps.

I'm attaching the ICU files that I left out, icu-60.2.pet Install this .pet, reinstall libxml2 with PPM, reboot, and let me know what difference it makes. I'm wondering if there are some slimming possibilities here, but being barely monolingual myself I'll leave it up to you to do some testing.

Interestingly I see many broken symlinks in /usr/lib that point towards icu libs. I thought woofce was supposed to clean these out but in this case I'm glad it didn't.

Cheers, J

Last edited by jrb on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 21:57; edited 2 times in total
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jrb


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1319
Location: Smithers, BC, Canada

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2019, 07:04    Post subject:  

dancytron wrote:
I did a manual frugal install with this. It booted fine, but my mouse didn't work. I tabbed down in first run dialog and tried to get it to work but it didn't.

It is nothing special, just a logitech B100 standard usb wired mouse.

Anything you suggest to try?

edit:

This is from Debian Dog:

Quote:
root@ChromeDog64:~# lsusb
Bus 001 Device 010: ID 046d:c315 Logitech, Inc. Classic Keyboard 200
Bus 001 Device 005: ID 1a40:0101 Terminus Technology Inc. Hub
Bus 001 Device 004: ID 1a40:0101 Terminus Technology Inc. Hub
Bus 001 Device 003: ID 07ca:0826 AVerMedia Technologies, Inc.
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Bus 005 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 004 Device 002: ID 046d:c077 Logitech, Inc. M105 Optical Mouse
Bus 004 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 002 Device 002: ID 0bc7:0008 X10 Wireless Technology, Inc. Wireless Transceiver (ACPI-compliant)
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub

I'm going to suggest starting with a "brute force" attack. Here is xorg_base_new-upup19.03.pet containing all the files I left out, plus some that I left in. Most of them I'm sure have nothing to do with this problem, but if it does fix it then we can start figuring out exactly what is needed. If it doesn't then we can look elsewhere.

Install this .pet, reboot and see if that fixes your mouse.

Good Luck, J
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jrb


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1319
Location: Smithers, BC, Canada

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2019, 07:08    Post subject:  

ally wrote:
mirrored here: http://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_Upup_Bionic_Beaver

Smile

Thanks ally, you do great work! I have downloaded old pups on occasion from your archives (once even one of my own) and appreciated them greatly.

Well done, J
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jrb


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1319
Location: Smithers, BC, Canada

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2019, 07:27    Post subject:  

musher0 wrote:
Hi jrb.

I downloaded and gave a test run to your upup-beaver-light.

~~~~~~~~

Regarding the removal of ICU, please read:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Components_for_Unicode
2nd paragraph. It details the services provided by the ICU library.

It's difficult to say if it is an effect of that removal, but my usual qc
keyboard is not presented as a choice in the two lists of keyboards ( the
one at initial boot and the one in the advanced keyboard/mouse wizard ),
nor can I get it to work if I install it through a pet I made for such
situations.
Quote:
Edit, an hour later:
This will seriously complicate the use of your Pup on a regular basis for
any French-Canadian using the qc keyboard. Anyway, I've been through
this numerous times with French-from-France as well as non-French
developers: it's not a "separatist" issue. AFAIK, the qc keyboard is older
than the current "normative" French-Canadian keyboard, but it is still
used by many of us.

Please see here. Thanks.

We do not want to re-learn to type in our language when including the qc
keyboard in a distro is such an easy solution. Why is that so difficult to
understand for outsiders?

End of edit.
~~~~~~~~~~~~

Other remarks :
-- clicking on any partition in the "Places" menu leads nowhere;
-- clicking on the spreadsheet icon in the top panel leads nowhere.
Should they be removed to avoid confusion?

-- The pmount utility has incorrect labels when one chooses the tabbed
layout. Perhaps use the previous version, which, IIRC, has correct labels.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

IHTH

Thanks for testing musher. See post above about ICU.

I booted Peebee's upup32-19.03 and looked for a "qc" keyboard, didn't see it. Can you check that?

When I click on a partition (drive) on the "Places" menu it mounts and opens that partition in rox. Do your partitions open from the desktop drive icons?

The "Spreadsheet" icon should open a little yellow gxmessage saying "no spreadsheet installed". This will disappear once a spreadsheet with a /usr/local/bin/defaultspreadsheet is installed. I use spreadsheets quite a bit and click that icon regularly.

My pmount seems to be labeled correctly, can you attach a screenshot of what yours is doing?

Thanks, J
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jrb


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1319
Location: Smithers, BC, Canada

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2019, 08:07    Post subject: Re: place my big apps, browsers, office suites, etc on the hd?  

davids45 wrote:
"Great minds think alike, fools........." as they say Very Happy .

I run many Pups on this computer in the same-ish way.

Wherever I can, programs, big and small, are stored on the data partition, and run in each Pup on my Frugals partitions in a sfs made of links back to these.

A new thread of such linkable bits in Puppy could be worth doing, but where in the Forum could it go??? Or is there already a list somewhere?

(Back on topic Shocked ) Now I'll try your Light Pup - thank you for the correct spelling, by the way .......

David S.

Hi David, thanks for testing.

Great minds/fools? I know what my wife would say.

I do essentially the same thing you do with an sfs, but mine is a bit wierd and I really should have explained it in a thread some time ago. Being a man of few (typed) words, however, I have been hesitant. After the initial birth trauma of Bionic32-light maybe I will tackle it. Attaching screenshot of some of the things I run from hard-drive and share among-st various puppies.
0_common.jpg
 Description   files, configs and apps on harddrive shared between puppies
 Filesize   82.56 KB
 Viewed   546 Time(s)

0_common.jpg

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jrb


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1319
Location: Smithers, BC, Canada

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2019, 08:51    Post subject: Re: Added apps checked
Subject description: A few problems
 

davids45 wrote:
G'day jrb,
Getting BionicPup32-Light set up as per my other Pups, I came across a few issues:
1) no spreadsheet in Default Applications Chooser: - fixed by adding text to /usr/local/bin/defaultspreadsheet
2) Pwidgets needed libxcb-xlib.so.0 - added to /usr/lib/
3) hardware temperature module smsc47b397 for this old computer is not being loaded by Boot manager: this is a recent BionicPup problem (not just yours): I fix this with a modprobe script in /root/Startup/ to load the module. This then makes the pmcputemp in Startup now work after its 'won't work' message on first-boot (two-birds/one-stone Wink ).
4) Iscan and peasyscan need libtiff.so.4 to run on my networked Epson-WF2510 multifunction; fixed by making a link from the libtiff.so.5 in /usr/lib/. As peasyscan is included in BionicPup-32-Light, are other scanners working and/or also need this libtiff.so.4?
5) CUPS: neither the included pdf printer nor my added Epson worked, not able to print (screenshots of problems); don't have an answer for either failure but I for one need printing in both modes (normal BionicPups have been fine).
6) on first startup, date was right but Sydney time (Aus not Can) was a few hours fast; fixed with St date and time Menu tool
7) Dougal's Internet Wizard was connecting to my wifi modem via the USB dongle but not on a restart; BK's SNS (Simple Network Server) wizard looks OK on restarts; haven't tried any of the other internet connection wizards in BionicPup32-Light.

It's only the inability to print with CUPS on your otherwise very nice Pup-Light that is a serious problem for me. I don't have this problem with peebee's (now 'heavy'?) BionicPups Very Happy .

Final screenshot is of my present Desktop on which everything is working Smile , except CUPS Sad .

David S.

Tackling the Cups problem first. I don't remember CUPS-PDF ever working for me, but "Print to File"->PDF always has. That said, I left out ghostscript , "An interpreter for the PostScript (TM) language, with the ability to convert PostScript language files to many raster formats, view them on displays, and print them on printers that don't have PostScript language capability built in;", because it is quite large in Bionic and my printer worked fine without it.

I did try installing ghostscript-8.15.4-w5c.pet which is tiny in comparison to the Bionic package. It required a symlink of libtiff.so.5.3.0->libtiff.so.3 and then I was able to run a couple of its scripts.

If that doesn't work the recommended ghostscript is "slackware current version 9.21". ghostscript-9.21-i586-1.txz

I did try my scanner. I don't remember symlinking to libtiff.so.4 but I may have. I'll include it in the next update anyway.

Time - glad you got that sorted. In all modern pups, going back to Precise I have been unable to get Canada/Pacific or America/LosAngeles to give me the correct time. Always off by 8 or 16 hours, depending on UTC setting. Canada/Yukon works fine, even though they're are all in the same PST time zone (end of rant)

I use PeasyWifi for all my wifi hookups. Scan -> Save -> Auto -> On has always worked on reboot.

Good Luck with the printer. I'm sure it can be solved. J
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 14452
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2019, 10:57    Post subject:  

jrb wrote:
musher0 wrote:
Hi jrb.(...)

Other remarks :
-- clicking on any partition in the "Places" menu leads nowhere;
-- clicking on the spreadsheet icon in the top panel leads nowhere.
Should they be removed to avoid confusion?

-- The pmount utility has incorrect labels when one chooses the tabbed
layout. Perhaps use the previous version, which, IIRC, has correct labels.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

IHTH

Thanks for testing musher. See post above about ICU.

I booted Peebee's upup32-19.03 and looked for a "qc" keyboard, didn't see it. Can you check that?

When I click on a partition (drive) on the "Places" menu it mounts and opens that partition in rox. Do your partitions open from the desktop drive icons?

The "Spreadsheet" icon should open a little yellow gxmessage saying "no spreadsheet installed". This will disappear once a spreadsheet with a /usr/local/bin/defaultspreadsheet is installed. I use spreadsheets quite a bit and click that icon regularly.

My pmount seems to be labeled correctly, can you attach a screenshot of what yours is doing?

Thanks, J

Hi jrb.

Thanks for your answers.

It took me some research and some figuring out, but the qc keyboard
problem on newer Pups is now essentially solved.

The partitions sub-menu do not open any ROX-Filer of said partitions.
It's like playing piano on a paper keyboard: you hear nothing! Could be
a typo in the corresponding jwm menu. Will have a look.

Please see the capture of the pmount tabs below.

BFN.
Optical-instead-of-usb.jpg
 Description   As requested.
 Filesize   88.74 KB
 Viewed   469 Time(s)

Optical-instead-of-usb.jpg


_________________
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
Je suis né pour aimer et non pas pour haïr. (Sophocle) /
I was born to love and not to hate. (Sophocles)

Last edited by musher0 on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 12:34; edited 1 time in total
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sheldonisaac

Joined: 21 Jun 2009
Posts: 861
Location: Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2019, 12:30    Post subject: Re: Bionic32-light
Subject description: A radically minimized modern OS
 

jrb (in part) wrote:
.. I thought I'd have a go at something more up to date. Not as small but it is performing well on my 1Gb Acer Aspire1 and it works with all the modern browsers I have tried.
Thanks a lot, jrb!

I need help with getting PUPMODE=13
which works in other Puppys, including Precise Light.

But this Bionic32-light makes pupmode of 5
Code:
 kernel /upbblt/vmlinuz  pdrv=d58c24e4-7a41-4cb7-be6d-08c83a6e2105 pmedia=ataflash psubdir=/upbblt pfix=fsck

_________________
Dell E6410: BusterPup, Ermine, Xenial, etc
Intel DQ35JOE, Dell Vostro 430
Dell Mini 9, Acer Aspire One, EeePC 1018P, PowerBook G4
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 14452
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2019, 12:55    Post subject:  

Hi jrb and all.

Some more testing of Bionic32-light reveals that...

- exchange between the CLI and GUI buffers is awful! It simply does not
work between leafpad and the terminal. Not even Shift-Delete and
Shift-Insert work.

Please find attached an xsel pet archive as an attempt to improve this
situation. I've seen this before, though, in DPupBuster. A solution was
provided in that thread, IIRC; it consisted of adding a udev rule or similar
somewhere in /usr/share/X11.

-- use of lxterminal is awful too (!), not to mention confusing for anyone
used to urxvt. Please replace the defaultterminal file at /usr/local/bin with
this real Wink one:
Code:

#!/bin/sh
# defaultterminal
####
exec urxvt -sr -tr -tint NavajoWhite4 -sh 50 -b 20
# lxterminal "$@"

-- the ever useful replaceit utility is absent. Included as attachment.

IHTH.
A-real-terminal(1).jpg
 Description   ;)
 Filesize   77.78 KB
 Viewed   444 Time(s)

A-real-terminal(1).jpg

replaceit-1.0.0.pet
Description 
pet

 Download 
Filename  replaceit-1.0.0.pet 
Filesize  6.86 KB 
Downloaded  141 Time(s) 
xsel_1.2.0+git9bfc13d.20180109-1_i386.pet
Description 
pet

 Download 
Filename  xsel_1.2.0+git9bfc13d.20180109-1_i386.pet 
Filesize  19.53 KB 
Downloaded  144 Time(s) 

_________________
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
Je suis né pour aimer et non pas pour haïr. (Sophocle) /
I was born to love and not to hate. (Sophocles)
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jrb


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1319
Location: Smithers, BC, Canada

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2019, 18:05    Post subject:  

jrb wrote:
musher0 wrote:
Hi jrb.

I am tempted to congratulate you, but... no ICU?

I realize the ICU library is huge. However, the acronym ICU standing for
"International Components for Unicode"

My apologies musher. I thought it was NSA spyware, "I see you". Wink Seriously I had only seen it referred to as a "database" to be used by various apps.

I'm attaching the ICU files that I left out, icu-60.2.pet Install this .pet, reboot and let me know what difference it makes. I'm wondering if there are some slimming possibilities here, but being barely monolingual myself I'll leave it up to you to do some testing.

Interestingly I see many broken symlinks in /usr/lib that point towards icu libs. I thought woofce was supposed to clean these out but in this case I'm glad it didn't.

Cheers, J

Hi musher, sorry I should have realized, after you install icu-60.2 you will need to reinstall libxml2. Embarassed This is the more modern one that actually uses libicu. You can do that with the PPM.
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 14452
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2019, 20:09    Post subject:  

No worries. Got it!

As to testing, I'll do my best. I'd feel more comfortable, though, if we
enlisted the help of people who use non-Latin languages ( Arabic, Asian,
Indi, Hebrew, Russian, Greek, etc., also Altaic and Aboriginal languages )
on their computer daily, to get a complete picture of what the ICU libs are
used for in practice.

Anyone out there who wishes to join the effort?

I agree that the ICU libs are huge. It would be nice to replace them with
something more compact. I looked briefly at alternatives, but there
seems to be none ATM that offer as wide a range of services. ( Although
I'm far from being a specialist in these matters. )

BFN.

_________________
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
Je suis né pour aimer et non pas pour haïr. (Sophocle) /
I was born to love and not to hate. (Sophocles)

Last edited by musher0 on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 20:36; edited 1 time in total
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davids45


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 1237
Location: Chatswood, NSW

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2019, 20:31    Post subject: Sharing apps etc between Pups  

G'day jrb,

Thanks for replying to both my previous posts.

I'll try various ghostscripts and see if any fix CUPS for me.
I already have a few old ghostscript pets of about 6-8MB but none as small as your first suggestion. The 'other' options seem to be 15-16MB which is getting big for a Light-Pup.

(Oh dear, I'm going off topic again Embarassed Smile ) But I'm intrigued by your economising/sharing of programs between your Pups as per your screenshots.
Is your method to have a dedicated "common" boot-mounted partition or folder that each of your Pups mounts on start-up. This has all the big programs and associated stuff.

How is each application, profile, etc. made run-able a new Pup? Automatically?

I do this with a single sfs of everything that sits in the Frugal-Puppies partition root/home so all I need do is sfs-load-on-the-fly this in a new Pup.
Software updates or new applications require I re-do the all-in-one sfs (I use sfs-combiner). And finding anything else I can change from taking up each Puppy's space into a link. Or profiles that can be synchronised this way for every Pup on the Frugals partition.

Still quite a few things to do "manually" for a new Pup that can't be handled this way but it beats multiple petting.

(Back to the topic Laughing ) I'll let you know how I go 'ghost-busting'.

David S.
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jrb


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1319
Location: Smithers, BC, Canada

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2019, 21:40    Post subject:  

musher0 wrote:
I agree that the ICU libs are huge. It would be nice to replace them with something more compact.

One very viable option mentioned by sheldonissac is to place large libs on the harddrive and link them back into /usr/lib. I've done it in the past and it works nicely.
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jrb


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1319
Location: Smithers, BC, Canada

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2019, 21:47    Post subject: Re: Sharing apps etc between Pups  

davids45 wrote:
But I'm intrigued by your economising/sharing of programs between your Pups as per your screenshots.

Be a bit patient. It's more than I can explain in a single post or two. Shocked I'll try to start a new thread in "Cutting Edge" called "How I run Puppy" complete with teaching aids, hopefully tomorrow.

Cheers, J
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jrb


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1319
Location: Smithers, BC, Canada

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2019, 23:19    Post subject: Re: Bionic32-light
Subject description: A radically minimized modern OS
 

sheldonisaac wrote:
jrb (in part) wrote:
.. I thought I'd have a go at something more up to date. Not as small but it is performing well on my 1Gb Acer Aspire1 and it works with all the modern browsers I have tried.
Thanks a lot, jrb!

I need help with getting PUPMODE=13
which works in other Puppys, including Precise Light.

But this Bionic32-light makes pupmode of 5
Code:
 kernel /upbblt/vmlinuz  pdrv=d58c24e4-7a41-4cb7-be6d-08c83a6e2105 pmedia=ataflash psubdir=/upbblt pfix=fsck

Hi Sheldon, I remember wrestling with this years ago when I first started running without save files. I seems to me I used sed to change the settings in /etc/rc.d/PUPSTATE. I'm quite sure I don't have any of those old installs around anymore. I'll play with it and see what I can do.
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