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 Forum index » House Training » Users ( For the regulars )
Kernel sizes of newer Puppys
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 3200
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Mon 08 Apr 2019, 03:15    Post subject:  Kernel sizes of newer Puppys  

Tahr 605 kernel is about 80MB, then Xenial jumps to more than 200MB and Bionic gawd knows how big. Why are the kernels of the new Puppys so massive?
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 12996
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Mon 08 Apr 2019, 09:16    Post subject:  

More hardware drivers.
More complex and bigger drivers.
More complex and bigger control features.
Processors, hardware, control devices, etc... having more complexity require bigger more complex drivers. Thus bigger code size.

If you compile a kernel to still have every possible hardware support, it is going to be bigger.
New hardware support is constantly being added and the older hardware support is still staying.
So, more and more drivers are in the kernel.

Also, the kernel is more and more the place for all hardware support software.
Not a lot of external software as in the past.

Quote:
A Linux kernel is a Monolithic Kernel. They encompass not only the CPU, memory, and IPC, but they also include things like device drivers, file system management, and system server calls. Monolithic kernels tend to be better at accessing hardware and multitasking because if a program needs to get information from memory or another process running it has a more direct line to access it and doesn’t have to wait in a queue to get things done.

Pros

More direct access to hardware for programs
Easier for processes to communicate between each other
If your device is supported, it should work with no additional installations
Processes react faster because there isn’t a queue for processor time


The size of the kernel is not as big a problem as you may be thinking.
Quote:
What if every driver available is already installed and you just had to turn on the drivers you needed? That is essentially what kernel modules do for Linux. Kernel modules, also known as a loadable kernel module (LKM), are essential to keeping the kernel functioning with all of your hardware without consuming all of your available memory.

Because of their modular nature you can easily customize your kernel by setting modules to load, or not load, during startup with the menuconfig command or by editing your /boot/config file, or you can load and unload modules on the fly with the modprobe command.

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666philb


Joined: 07 Feb 2010
Posts: 3511
Location: wales

PostPosted: Mon 08 Apr 2019, 09:24    Post subject:  

hi nic007,

most of the size difference is extra firmware. for example tahrpup32 had 21mb of firmware and bionicpup64 has 89mb.
FYI bionicpup64s kernel including lots of extra firmware is actually smaller than tahrpup64s & xenialpups

see various kernels & sizes used for official pups here https://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/huge_kernels/

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Bionicpup64 built with bionic beaver packages http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=114311
Xenialpup64, built with xenial xerus packages http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=107331
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 3200
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Mon 08 Apr 2019, 10:44    Post subject:  

So the kernels (drivers) are actually pre-made and downloaded from kernel.org and then just compiled for a Puppy by running a script? And the firmware? The firmware upgrades are necessary for modern (new) machines/hardware? How do I know which linux drivers and firmware are necessary for specific hardware? The Windows OS seems to be dealing easier with all of this.
Last edited by nic007 on Mon 08 Apr 2019, 11:00; edited 1 time in total
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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 2205

PostPosted: Mon 08 Apr 2019, 10:58    Post subject:  

nic007 wrote:
So the kernels (drivers) are actually pre-made and downloaded from kernel.org and then just compiled for a Puppy by running a script? And the firmware? The firmware upgrades are necessary for modern (new) machines?


I'm agnostic on this but I suggest that if you need puppy to fit puppy into a smaller space that you use technosaurus' zdrv cutter:
Remove unneeded modules and firmware - Zdrv_Cutter by technosaurus 19 Jan 2010
How to use Zdrv-cutter? by backi 12 Feb 2013
and related more recent conversation:
Determining device hardware and "drivers" on your system by wiak 22 Mar 19 which was inspired by my "stripping down a puppy thread "

Last edited by s243a on Mon 08 Apr 2019, 11:06; edited 2 times in total
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 3200
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Mon 08 Apr 2019, 11:04    Post subject:  

s243a wrote:
nic007 wrote:
So the kernels (drivers) are actually pre-made and downloaded from kernel.org and then just compiled for a Puppy by running a script? And the firmware? The firmware upgrades are necessary for modern (new) machines?


I'm agnostic on this but I suggest that if you need puppy to fit puppy into a smaller space that you use technosaurus' zdrv cutter:
Remove unneeded modules and firmware - Zdrv_Cutter by technosaurus 18 May 20-8
How to use Zdrv-cutter? by backi 12 Feb 2018
and related more recent conversation:
Determining device hardware and "drivers" on your system which was inspired by my "stripping down a puppy thread by wiak 22 Mar 19"

Okay I'll check out your post, thanks.
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