Why is wireless so complicated in Puppy?

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Moat
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#16 Post by Moat »

olddog wrote:I believe these are Windows programs.
No - those are a brand-new set of Puppy WiFi tools, developed by stemsee himself - see here;

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=112660

That may be just what you're lookin' for, and certainly worth a shot. And anyway, they need more attention and testing by the greater Puppy community - and if proven worthy, eventual adoption into the default Puppy WoofCE build system as a potential replacement to the existing WiFi tools you're having issues with. Win-win!

Bob

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Burn_IT
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#17 Post by Burn_IT »

Was that a double vote for Windows there??? :roll: :roll:
"Just think of it as leaving early to avoid the rush" - T Pratchett

cthisbear
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#18 Post by cthisbear »

olddog:

Ever since Frisbee by Jeminiah...a brilliant girl..

I have had no issues with wireless in Puppy....ever.

If the driver is there...Frisbee runs.

First ran wireless on an Acer laptop when mu had a triple Puppy Release.

Chris.

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Moat
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#19 Post by Moat »

Burn_IT wrote:Was that a double vote for Windows there??? :roll: :roll:
:lol: :lol: Oh, hell no! :lol:

T'was a vote of confidence in stemsee AND the Puppy testing community! :)

As cthisbear mentioned, I've always had great luck with Frisbee, and use it exclusively as it's fast/easy and has never failed to *just work* on all of my hardware. Win-wi... errr... two thumbs up! :lol:

Bob

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Mike Walsh
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#20 Post by Mike Walsh »

@ olddog:-

Just out of curiosity, what wireless adapter are you using? Perhaps some-one could give advice based on experience with it.

EDIT:- Ah; Broadcom. Huh. The one chipset provider who steadfastly refuses to even acknowledge the existence of Linux. Yep, they're a PITA all right; most of the available Linux Broadcom drivers/workarounds have had to be 'reverse-engineered' as it is.....


Mike. :wink:

wiak
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#21 Post by wiak »

I have noticed that with some distros, script /etc/init.d/frisbee fails to find my wireless interface name in time (which, on my computer, is sometimes known as wls1 rather than default wlan0). The name accordingly is not being written into the script's WFACES variable (and out to /etc/frisbee/interfaces); that's the key value needing found and stored for frisbee GUI not to grey buttons out and thus fail to work.

The solution is simple: increase the sleep value in /etc/init.d/frisbee from sleep 5 to sleep 7 or maybe even to sleep 10

The relevant 'sleep 5' is at line 38 in my /etc/init.d/frisbee file, but exact location of the line may depend on the version of frisbee you have installed (but will be around there anyway).

wiak

wiak
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#22 Post by wiak »

In terms of simplicity, I often don't even use a Network Manager program like frisbee at all.

As long as the system has something like dhcpcd daemon program (or dhclient) available as well as wpa_supplicant and the correct wifi device firmware in /lib/firmware (and usually relevant module in /lib/modules; see lsmod command), and I know the name of my wifi router SSID, I just start dhcpcd and wpa_supplicant up at the commandline.

Certainly I first have to create a wpa_supplicant.conf file with my SSID and password in it (or use wpa_passphrase to create the necessary entry). For example, on one of my systems I use:

Code: Select all

wpa_passphrase <MYSSID> <password_key> >> /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf
then start wpa_supplicant with something like:

Code: Select all

wpa_supplicant -Dwext -i<device_name> -c/etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf
or via some wpa_supplicant service startup command your system may provide...

though you need to know where the relevant wpa_supplicant .conf file is stored on your system.

If you need to first scan (before all the above) to check the SSID used, you can use the program iwlist:

Code: Select all

ifconfig <wifi_device_name> up
iwlist scan
For more accurate (and much better explained) details of how to connect via commandline best to read post 2 here:

http://askubuntu.com/questions/138472/h ... mmand-line
which references nice explanation:
http://linux.icydog.net/wpa.php

though you don't need 'sudo' on Puppy of course - since logged-in as root user anyway. You should be using your wifi device name of course (not eth1; probably something like wlan0 or wls1 as revealed by command:

Code: Select all

ip link show
or simply:

Code: Select all

ifconfig
or

Code: Select all

iwconfig
There are lots of ways to crack a nut.


You can thus write a very simple script indeed (just a few lines) to basically do the above for a particular system.

wiak

EDIT: As far as wifi firmware is concerned, if it's not already installed on your system, things just won't work, and you have to search online for correct firmware for your wifi device (which is usually revealed by dmesg command). For example for common iwlwifi, see: https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/use ... rs/iwlwifi

olddog
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#23 Post by olddog »

Short of taking the machine apart, which I will do in due course, I am not sure which adapter I am using. According to the bible on Thinkpads on Linux, there are several possibilities:

http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:T61

Is there any way of finding out from Puppy? I have sought, but have not found.

Mike Walsh wrote:@ olddog:-

Just out of curiosity, what wireless adapter are you using? Perhaps some-one could give advice based on experience with it.

EDIT:- Ah; Broadcom. Huh. The one chipset provider who steadfastly refuses to even acknowledge the existence of Linux. Yep, they're a PITA all right; most of the available Linux Broadcom drivers/workarounds have had to be 'reverse-engineered' as it is.....


Mike. :wink:
Linux novice with too many Thinkpads, mainly running Xenialpup
HP Laserjet Pro 1102W

olddog
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#24 Post by olddog »

I downloaded the file, but can't extract the program.

A yellow box comes up saying "Do you want to extract.....?", but when I hit Yes, nothing happens. Uextract also fails.

Moat wrote:
olddog wrote:I believe these are Windows programs.
No - those are a brand-new set of Puppy WiFi tools, developed by stemsee himself - see here;

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=112660

That may be just what you're lookin' for, and certainly worth a shot. And anyway, they need more attention and testing by the greater Puppy community - and if proven worthy, eventual adoption into the default Puppy WoofCE build system as a potential replacement to the existing WiFi tools you're having issues with. Win-win!

Bob
Linux novice with too many Thinkpads, mainly running Xenialpup
HP Laserjet Pro 1102W

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Smithy
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#25 Post by Smithy »

Olddog, this thread is getting complicated.
There are three potential places to get info about your hardware and network device(s) without using the terminal or messing around with other stuff: Maybe have a look for PCI devices.
Menu/System/PupScan
Menu/System/PupSysinfo
Menu/System/Hardinfo

Is it not Intel? https://www.cnet.com/products/lenovo-t61/specs/
Communications
Wireless Protocol
802.11a/b/g
Wireless Controller
Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG
Wired Protocol
Gigabit Ethernet
Should just work with SNS I would have thought.. If Broadcom, I think Peebee or Zigbert used to always make sure that the Puppy would work with that stinker, through an extra driver or something.

ozsouth
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#26 Post by ozsouth »

Smithy (previous poster) is right - we need to know what wireless adaptor. If intel you will need firmware, which goes in /lib/firmware then reboot & save. To be sure, in a terminal, please run: lspci -k and post output for Network. If it is Broadcom, I & others made drivers for several kernels, so please also run in terminal: uname -r & post output.
Last edited by ozsouth on Tue 02 Apr 2019, 10:22, edited 1 time in total.

olddog
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#27 Post by olddog »

Thank you. Telling me to look for PCI did the trick.

It's an Intel 4965 AG or AGN.

SOMETIMES it will work with any of the three systems; it all depends on the time of the month or the direction of the wind, or whatever. With Dougal's system I can never remember what I did to make it work. With the other two it's a bit of a lottery whether it works or not.

I increasingly feel that the card may be to blame.

BTW, many thanks for all the suggestions.
Smithy wrote:Olddog, this thread is getting complicated.
There are three potential places to get info about your hardware and network device(s) without using the terminal or messing around with other stuff: Maybe have a look for PCI devices.
Menu/System/PupScan
Menu/System/PupSysinfo
Menu/System/Hardinfo

Is it not Intel? https://www.cnet.com/products/lenovo-t61/specs/
Communications
Wireless Protocol
802.11a/b/g
Wireless Controller
Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG
Wired Protocol
Gigabit Ethernet
Should just work with SNS I would have thought.. If Broadcom, I think Peebee or Zigbert used to always make sure that the Puppy would work with that stinker, through an extra driver or something.
Linux novice with too many Thinkpads, mainly running Xenialpup
HP Laserjet Pro 1102W

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Smithy
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#28 Post by Smithy »

Ok, that's good that you know what it is now.
Some info here.
https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/use ... s/iwlegacy

I can see a iwlwifi-4965-2.ucode file in a puppy I am using, located in Lib/Firmware.
but guys like Ozsouth, Rerwin and others will know the workings much better than myself.
Rerwin did suggest trying a pristine boot Puppy 8 version for instance, might be improvements etc.

olddog
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#29 Post by olddog »

Yes, I have that file too, in both lib and lib64 folders.
Smithy wrote:Ok, that's good that you know what it is now.
Some info here.
https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/use ... s/iwlegacy

I can see a iwlwifi-4965-2.ucode file in a puppy I am using, located in Lib/Firmware.
but guys like Ozsouth, Rerwin and others will know the workings much better than myself.
Rerwin did suggest trying a pristine boot Puppy 8 version for instance, might be improvements etc.
Linux novice with too many Thinkpads, mainly running Xenialpup
HP Laserjet Pro 1102W

stemsee

#30 Post by stemsee »

olddog wrote:I downloaded the file, but can't extract the program.

A yellow box comes up saying "Do you want to extract.....?", but when I hit Yes, nothing happens. Uextract also fails.

Moat wrote:
olddog wrote:I believe these are Windows programs.
No - those are a brand-new set of Puppy WiFi tools, developed by stemsee himself - see here;

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=112660

That may be just what you're lookin' for, and certainly worth a shot. And anyway, they need more attention and testing by the greater Puppy community - and if proven worthy, eventual adoption into the default Puppy WoofCE build system as a potential replacement to the existing WiFi tools you're having issues with. Win-win!

Bob
That is an .sfs file named s .sfs.gz ust rename by removing the .gz (fake .gz)
Then right click on the file and choose load_sfs, or load module depending on your system.

stemsee

Terry H
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#31 Post by Terry H »

Oldog

In a terminal run:

Code: Select all

dmesg | grep wifi
This will tell you which wifi firmware your system is searching for and needs to be able to connect to wifi.

The firmware then goes in the directory /lib/firmware

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Mike Walsh
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#32 Post by Mike Walsh »

@ olddog:-

Y'know, I think in all honesty you'd be better off just getting a USB wifi 'dongle', and connecting via that instead. The drivers for many of these, if they have well-established chipsets, have been baked-in to the kernel for years.....because when it boils down to it, it's all down to the chipset in use.

I can highly recommend these two:-

TP-Link WN-725N 'nano' USB wireless adapter

...and this one:-

NetGear WNA-3100M 'mini' USB wireless adapter

I've used both of these for years, with zero hassle - the ancient Dell lappie (an original Inspiron 1100) never came with a wireless card, unlike its big brother, the 5100. The TP-Link uses the r8188eu driver, in the kernel for at least 4½ years.....and the NetGear uses 'old reliable', the rtl8192cu driver, which has been in the kernel longer than many of us can remember.....

I can vouch for their reliability, too; the TP-Link, in particular, has a very good range, and delivers strong performance on even a mediocre signal. Highly recommended, both of 'em; just be aware that the WPS 'single-click-to-connect' button on the NetGear adapter doesn't work under Linux.....but it connects as good as gold using SNS.

You can spend days or weeks trying to get built-in cards running; the Broadcom ones tend to get used by a lot of manufacturers 'cos they're cheap (and 'nasty' with it!) Why put yourself through all that hassle when you can plug a USB adapter in, and be 'up-and-running' in a couple or three minutes? It's what I call a no-brainer; I absolutely refuse to piss about with recalcitrant hardware if there's an easier solution available. So long as you do a modicum of research, and make sure the chipset of what you want to buy is supported by the kernel, it's as easy as 1,2,3.

WikiDevi is a very, very good resource for this task.

And you can transfer a USB adapter from one machine to another, too.


Mike. :wink:

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Smithy
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#33 Post by Smithy »

Only three USB slots though Mike, starts to get a bit limiting, maybe?
Looks a decent Lappie (SINDI).
Maybe Bill’s Peasy, or Stemsee or Rerwin can give some pointers, then at least if anyone comes across
A Thinkpad at least we would know if it is a good candidate for Puppy or a pita, as this thread disappears into the swampy morass of murga.

From Notebook Review:
Wireless

The ThinkPad T61 uses the Intel 4965 wireless chip that offers 802.11 a/b/g/n wireless reception. All of your bases are covered there, and the greater range 802.11n offers is on the table if you have an 802.11n router.
The range of the ThinkPad is theoretically greater now that the lid material has changed to plastic too. The antenna is run up through the lid for better reception you see, and the new lid material allows radio waves to reach the antenna more easily.
I was only able to test up to 100-feet away from my NetGear WGR614 802.11g wireless router, which I despise for its bad performance and tendency to drop connections, but the T61 worked just fine with it and I never suffered a connection drop and throughput was consistently good.

The T61 also offers with integrated WWAN via Verizon as an option, Bluetooth can also be configured as a built-in option.

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Mike Walsh
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#34 Post by Mike Walsh »

Mornin', Smithy.

Well, yes; that review sounds good, of course. But I'll bet ya pounds to pennies that review was conducted under a Thinkpad running MyCrudSoft's abortion.

P'raps I've just been lucky with my choice of hardware. I dunno.
Smithy wrote:Only three USB slots though Mike, starts to get a bit limiting, maybe?
No reason olddog couldn't use a USB 'hub' to extend the number of available ports. The old Dell only has two, but I use a seven-port, self-powered (important, that last bit) hub with it. The external USB HDD uses one port, and everything else (including the adapter) uses the hub via the other.

I have to do it this way, 'cos for some strange reason, if I plug the HDD into the hub, Puppy doesn't 'see' it. Weird as hell, but there ya go. At the moment, she's very happy dual-booting Precise 571 and pemasu's UPup 'Raring'.

Works for me, at any rate. There is another alternative, though it depends on the hardware. Did that review happen to mention if the T61 has a PCMCIA 'CardBus' slot, by any chance?


Mike. :wink:
Last edited by Mike Walsh on Tue 02 Apr 2019, 11:04, edited 2 times in total.

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Burn_IT
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#35 Post by Burn_IT »

I changed the wireless card inside my laptop to a TP Link one, but I had to change the BIOS to a better?? third party one to overcome the restrictions on hardware - I actually changed the bios so I could use a none IBM disk. There were some very strange restrictions in the standard BIOS. (there for certification reasons)
"Just think of it as leaving early to avoid the rush" - T Pratchett

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