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Distributions created by members of the Puppy Forum
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darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
Posts: 637
Location: Rakaia

PostPosted: Sat 09 Mar 2019, 17:07    Post subject:  

Referenced it in beginner's section.
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=115616
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jd7654

Joined: 06 Apr 2015
Posts: 297

PostPosted: Sat 09 Mar 2019, 18:31    Post subject:    

Downvote. This should NOT be a sticky.

Mavrothal is correct on all his technical points. (which Wiak deftly sidestepped in typical snide passive/aggressive manner)

This post is not what it purports to be. "Distributions Supported on Murga Forum" maybe should be "Wiak's opinion of which Distributions should be Supported on Murga Forum."
Or maybe this is some kind of list of different underlying architecture types, I dunno, it does not make a cohesive presentation.
The categories lack detail, scope and context. No status or description of following or release and polished or baked in status. No subcategories or family listings, underlying Woof, WoofCE, LFS, no mention of desktop and Rox. And maybe should have a separate section honorable mentions of other distros or spins which may not be supported or proper "Puppy" distros, etc, etc.

In any case, by creating these 7 major categories, and only these 7 major categories, it seems the author is instead elevating #6 and #7 up to the level and status of Puppy, Fatdog and Dog Linux? Really? Tazpup and corepup are fine and interesting projects, but hardly a major supported distro, especially ones to point to beginners. And all the while ignoring the substantial development and support of PeeBee's LxPup family. Whaa??

So while this topic could be of benefit to new users as a sticky, I'm afraid this particular post is a bit of rubbish and the author may not be the right one to author such a document.

Just my $0.02.
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1808
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sat 09 Mar 2019, 19:55    Post subject:  

jd7654 wrote:
Downvote. This should NOT be a sticky.

Mavrothal is correct on all his technical points. (which Wiak deftly sidestepped in typical snide passive/aggressive manner)


I have no idea what "technical points" I am supposed to have "sidestepped" actually. In any case, I am fed up with being insulted: snide, evase, passive/aggressive, whatever! Get a life.

Of course, it's not as if I don't already know you have an issue with me personally, and that in that mode you earlier also have an issue with my creation "makepup":

jd7654 wrote:

To try and use woof-CE as an end-user tool as some sort of pseudo-distro-updater, that runs contrary to what Puppy is. A small, lightweight, easy to use, carefully crafted, self contained, complete OS. Will someone on a old computer or netbook be spending gobs and gobs of processing, storage and hours of time just to update their tiny 200MB Puppy with woof-CE? A full distro or rolling distro might be better in that case.


You are welcome to your opinion, mavrothal and yourself, but prejudice is a sad thing.

jd7654 wrote:

So while this topic could be of benefit to new users as a sticky, I'm afraid this particular post is a bit of rubbish and the author may not be the right one to author such a document.

Just my $0.02.


Well, no-one is stopping you authoring a better document to be made sticky for the benefit of these new users you mention. Get on with it then rather than attacking myself (via what is a simple post of mine).

wiak

_________________
Tiny Linux Blog: http://www.tinylinux.info/
Check Firmware: www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1022797
tinycore/slitaz: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=990130#990130
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dancytron

Joined: 18 Jul 2012
Posts: 1372

PostPosted: Sat 09 Mar 2019, 20:36    Post subject:  

jd7654 wrote:
Downvote. This should NOT be a sticky.

Mavrothal is correct on all his technical points. (which Wiak deftly sidestepped in typical snide passive/aggressive manner)

This post is not what it purports to be. "Distributions Supported on Murga Forum" maybe should be "Wiak's opinion of which Distributions should be Supported on Murga Forum."
/lots of stuff snipped//
Just my $0.02.


Is it "supported" that is bothering you?

How about "Distributions created on the Murga Forum" or "Distributions created by members of the Murga Forum?"

Or perhaps even more simply, "Distributions that are on the Murga Forum?"
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Sat 09 Mar 2019, 22:09    Post subject:  

thanks for all your good work wiak

negative nonsense should be ignored

regards

wanderer

.

Last edited by wanderer on Sat 09 Mar 2019, 22:12; edited 2 times in total
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darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
Posts: 637
Location: Rakaia

PostPosted: Sat 09 Mar 2019, 22:10    Post subject:  

jd7654 wrote:
Downvote. This should NOT be a sticky.

Mavrothal is correct on all his technical points. (which Wiak deftly sidestepped in typical snide passive/aggressive manner)

This post is not what it purports to be. "Distributions Supported on Murga Forum" maybe should be "Wiak's opinion of which Distributions should be Supported on Murga Forum."
Or maybe this is some kind of list of different underlying architecture types, I dunno, it does not make a cohesive presentation.
The categories lack detail, scope and context. No status or description of following or release and polished or baked in status. No subcategories or family listings, underlying Woof, WoofCE, LFS, no mention of desktop and Rox. And maybe should have a separate section honorable mentions of other distros or spins which may not be supported or proper "Puppy" distros, etc, etc.

In any case, by creating these 7 major categories, and only these 7 major categories, it seems the author is instead elevating #6 and #7 up to the level and status of Puppy, Fatdog and Dog Linux? Really? Tazpup and corepup are fine and interesting projects, but hardly a major supported distro, especially ones to point to beginners. And all the while ignoring the substantial development and support of PeeBee's LxPup family. Whaa??

So while this topic could be of benefit to new users as a sticky, I'm afraid this particular post is a bit of rubbish and the author may not be the right one to author such a document.

Just my $0.02.


Mmmm Document states that Puppies come in Debian, Slackware and Ubuntu flavours - true statement.

Uses the Woof CE system these days.
Without naming every single developer - because it is a summary.

To mention LXPup an excellent version of Puppy means you would have to mention every single Puppy ever and developer which is every bit as important and he clearly points to where you can find more info and more in depth history of Puppy and all its variants,

As for the other distros here they are supported if their developer answers questions and they release updates and fixes.

So sorry pal can't see what the complaining is about and I might add this link has Peebee's name when you go to it:

http://puppylinux.com/team.html

Seems like a very anti Debiandog and other Puppy like distro attitude to me - sorry you feel that way.
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jd7654

Joined: 06 Apr 2015
Posts: 297

PostPosted: Sat 09 Mar 2019, 23:17    Post subject:  

darry19662018 wrote:
Seems like a very anti Debiandog and other Puppy like distro attitude to me - sorry you feel that way.


Interesting. That's a good one pal.

I rarely check in here nowadays. Mainly just check out the latest of Barry's creations, or latest Fatdog or something. Used and supported Dogs in the past but just don't use Dog or Puppy much on my current platforms: newer Windows 10 laptops and Chromebooks.

But seems things haven't changed much. Dog versus Puppy factions, jockeying for power.(why can't just coexist..) Wiak getting in a fight with someone. Ah Murga-Linux...gotta love it.
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1808
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sat 09 Mar 2019, 23:24    Post subject:  

dancytron wrote:
"Distributions created by members of the Murga Forum?"


I doubt that is the person's issue, but let's try that one since it seems undeniable.

_________________
Tiny Linux Blog: http://www.tinylinux.info/
Check Firmware: www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1022797
tinycore/slitaz: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=990130#990130
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1808
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sun 10 Mar 2019, 18:51    Post subject:  

darry19662018 wrote:
Wiak I love your blog - very well written I have made a wiki entry referring to it here:
https://puppylinux.org/wikka/Differences_between_Puppy_Linux_and_other_Distributions_supported_by_Murga


Thanks darry. In case anyone is interested, the blog was quickly created using makeblog gtkdialog frontend for bashblog:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=112046

makeblog itself was actually created by modifying makepup (basically, instead of on-the-fly modifying woof-CE scripts, makeblog on-the-fly modifies bashblog, so resulting blog handles tags differently to straight bashblog-created blogs).

I let makeblog also use bluegriffon WYSIWYG html editor - this version here works best for me in makeblog tests:

http://trac.lliurex.net/xenial/export/707/bluegriffon/trunk/raring/bluegriffon-1.7.2.Ubuntu13.04.x86_64.tar.bz2

To be honest, I had forgotten how to use makeblog, and it does take a bit practice to work out what it can do - but actually works well once you've mastered one or two of its current idiosyncrasies!...

One thing I should mention is that the linked blog page will not be on top once I add other posts to the blog... However, I'll look into that to see if I can make it a static front page. Problem is also that since, for the blog, I'm currently using simple DNS forwarding to tinylinux.info that same address displays at the top of all the separate posts (else I could provide exact link to that post). I'm not sure how to get round that - I simply don't know enough about setting up DNS.

Anyway, I am not planning any new blog post for a while, so fine for now.

wiak

_________________
Tiny Linux Blog: http://www.tinylinux.info/
Check Firmware: www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1022797
tinycore/slitaz: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=990130#990130
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tallboy


Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 1500
Location: Drøbak, Norway

PostPosted: Sun 10 Mar 2019, 23:14    Post subject:  

I sadly don't have the skills needed to be a good software designer, so my contributions to a Puppy are limited. But, I have used Linux for close to 20 years, and Puppys for half of those years, and I have some thoughts about the expansion we witness here.

First of all, I react to the title Differences between Puppy Linux and other Distributions supported by Murga
What exactly does John Murga think about the assumption that he supports other distributions? He hosts only the Puppy Linux Forum. There is no such thing as a Murga Puppy Forum.

The wikka is difficult to use, because of the aged references, and that it is not continuously maintained. The wikka will not be improved by adding unrelated material, made by using parts of Puppy names or implementing some small parts of a Puppylinux. Make your own wiki!

I think the Puppy Linux Forum will be weakened by including more unrelated projects. They can make their own forum, leaving this forum more pure Puppylinux. If they base their design on Puppylinux; great, but keep them out of this forum. You don't see Puppy users as a part of the Slacko or Ubuntu forums, they are regarded as guests, and not always welcome as such.

I think that this forum may be heading for a 'spring cleaning'. For a newcomer, just finding a Puppy version is difficult. Adding to the confusion by shovering them with information about distant relatives that use a name associated with a Puppylinux, is not the way to go.
Keep the Puppy Derivatives and Puppy Projects sections in the forum for what they are supposed to be:
Derivatives as child distros based on, and mainly consisting of, Puppylinux. The other Puppy look-a-like distros can have a life of their own, but not in this forum.
Projects for developing the next generations of Puppylinux. Based on BKs original ideas about what Puppy should be, while freely adapting ideas from other distros, but refined to reemerge as pure Puppy parts. A possible change in direction could be a focus upon the tasks a new Puppy should perform, and how to implement that with some original ideas, rather than just tweaking the base programmes from another distro.

I personally dislike the concept of woofCE as a scaffold for building a Puppy-like distro from any other distro, by following the same patterns , but with different names on the materials. It resembles a new set of clothes for a Barbie doll, dressed for the occation. I won't hide the fact that I right now use just such a creation, a version based on Lucid.

There is a global frustration regarding the survival of classical forums in general, because of the new platforms like facebook, instagram and other 'social' media taking their place. I believe that expanding a forum's base to follow the path laid out by those media, is a way to sudden death. Assuming that an electronic platform makes a common ground that makes the media equal, is a major mistake, the differences are more like apples to oranges. A purification and clear limitation of the content in a forum, instead of spreading out, is the only way to survive.

That is what I think.

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dancytron

Joined: 18 Jul 2012
Posts: 1372

PostPosted: Sun 10 Mar 2019, 23:44    Post subject:  

I think you are 100% wrong.

While the lack of organization is a problem, the other distributions weren't just outgrowths of Puppy or inspired by Puppy. Fatdog, Debian/Ubuntu Dogs and the others were created on this forum by the members of this forum. They didn't come from somewhere else and all of a sudden set up shop. They were all conceived and born on this forum, and have lived here for many years.

If anti-x or porteus (just as 2 examples) all of a sudden started their own threads and took over, that would be one thing, but that isn't what we are talking about at all.

To the extent there are any problems, it is caused by what appears to be an inability of the forum administrators to create new categories and move threads. What wiak and others have tried to do is work around that. Admittedly, it is not nearly as good of a solution as creating an "Other Distributions Created by Forum Members" category and moving all the threads there, but it seems to be the best that can be done for now.

IMHO, dealing with that organizational shortcoming by throwing projects created by the forum's most talented and creative members off of the forum is an outrageous proposal.

Those that think Puppy is in trouble (I'm not one of them), complain about the lack of testers and feedback. I am also not a talented developer, but I install every major new Puppy (and Fatdog and Debiandog) version and test the "remove builtin programs" and "remaster" functions at the very least. I don't see myself doing that if Debian Dog and Fatdog (and the others) are suddenly thrown to the wolves.

edit: For reference, this is the "official" Puppy positions from puppylinux.com, which I presume was written by Mick01.

http://puppylinux.com/history.html#family

Quote:

Puppy Linux Family

Puppy Linux is an old, mature distribution. Its ideas, principles and spirit have been well tested and well known for many years. It is therefore of no surprise to see other distributions that share the same principles and ideas. Some of them even behave very closely like Puppy.

These are distributions which are inspired in one way or another, from Puppy Linux. We consider them as a “derivative” in spirit, in idea. We call them as “offshots” to differentiate them from puplets, which is a true derivative.

Some of these offshots are forks of Puppy. Fatdog64, for example, was forked from Puppy Linux when it was at version 4.0. Although it is now an independently managed distribution and shares almost no code with the original Puppy it came from, it still claims to live up to Puppy’s ideals: small, fast, and versatile.

Some of the other offshots are inspired by the idea of Puppy Linux and adapts it for use in another distribution. DebianDog, for example, is an offshot of this type. It takes Debian Live-CD and molds it so it behaves very similarly with Puppy Linux.

Some takes a puplet and molds it into something that is more user friendly and called it something totally different (but acknowledges the source), for example, Simplicity Linux.

All of these distros are no longer considered as part of Puppy Linux distribution, but one can be mistaken to think that they are - because of their likeness and their similar behaviours. All of these distributions acknowledge that they owe their existence to Puppy Linux; if not directly in code, then in idea or in spirit.

Many of these distributions cross-share their improvements to each other; many of these distributions’ discussion are hosted in the same Puppy Linux forum (in different, distro-specific threads). Many of their developers and maintainers cross-post and comments on distributions different than their own. Many users of these distributions hop from one to another, and talk about them as if they are all Puppy.

Indeed, in spirit, they all are. All of these distribution developers and maintainers were Puppy Linux users in the past, who decided to improve it on their own, one way or another.

As such, it is just natural to consider them as part of the larger Puppy Linux community. This larger group is called as Puppy Linux family distributions: it includes all of the official/CE releases, puplets, and these offshots too.
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darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
Posts: 637
Location: Rakaia

PostPosted: Mon 11 Mar 2019, 01:13    Post subject:  

Thank you gentlemen and others for taking the time to share your views.
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Mon 11 Mar 2019, 13:27    Post subject:  

hi all

this thread is a good place to remember and discuss
all the great puppies and puppy inspired projects of the past and present

i still have a copy of puppy 0.97

i will have to look through my stuff to remember all the names

micromuppy
pupngo
214
etc

my first puppy was 201
which i used the remaster tool to modify

what a blast

also did you see the the distrowatch article on ezOS puppy
i will have to see how that all works

all honor to puppy (and other similar systems)

wanderer
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darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
Posts: 637
Location: Rakaia

PostPosted: Mon 11 Mar 2019, 14:51    Post subject:  

Well to be honest Wanderer there still are great Pups being produced
Dpup Buster by Josejp2424 has Scottman's pkg
then there is DPup Stretch by Peebee and his new SCpup and Artful,

Going back
Fluppy, 3.01, Macpup 525, Lucid 525 retro,
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Mon 11 Mar 2019, 14:55    Post subject:  

yes darry

thats why this thread could be so helpful and informative
to both newbees and oldbees

i didnt even know the the pups you just mentioned existed

i will now look into them

thanks

wanderer
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