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The time now is Mon 18 Nov 2019, 18:28
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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Suggestions
Puppy's big problem with woof and woof CE
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 14481
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sat 23 Mar 2019, 17:26    Post subject:  

Hello oui and all.

I repeat: jwm is Joe Wing's revenge on humanity for what he thinks humanity has
done to him.

You cannot write documentation like jwm's documentation if you have a heart. It
has no examples, absolutely no examples. Who does he think his users are?
Pure spirits? Robots?

I have never read anything so dry in my entire life. The man has no idea of how
learning happens in humans.

So I decided some years ago to go on strike permanently against jwm, and I am
glad I did. I discovered all sorts of window management concepts that jwm does not
even know exist.

There is a fabulous world of different WMs beyond jwm, you know. The world does
not stop at jwm.

BFN.

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musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
Je suis né pour aimer et non pas pour haïr. (Sophocle) /
I was born to love and not to hate. (Sophocles)
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darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
Posts: 645
Location: Rakaia

PostPosted: Sat 23 Mar 2019, 17:46    Post subject:  

wanderer wrote:
thanks so much darry

cool so that is where to start

whenever you have time put a link to your iso

and i will download it and burn it

then i will read your stuff

wanderer

As promised here it is:
https://archive.org/details/stretch7.5onebonek4.1.48

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oui

Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 3494
Location: near Woof (Germany) :-) - 3 PC's: DELL SX280 750 MB Pentium4, Acer emachines 2 GB AMD64. DELL XPS15

PostPosted: Sat 23 Mar 2019, 18:13    Post subject:  

Christian,

pls

musher0 wrote:
Hello oui and all.

I repeat: jwm is Joe Wing's revenge on humanity for what he thinks humanity has
done to him.

You cannot write documentation like jwm's documentation if you have a heart. It
has no examples, absolutely no examples. Who does he think his users are?
Pure spirits? Robots?

I have never read anything so dry in my entire life. The man has no idea of how
learning happens in humans.

So I decided some years ago to go on strike permanently against jwm, and I am
glad I did. I discovered all sorts of window management concepts that jwm does not
even know exist.

There is a fabulous world of different WMs beyond jwm, you know. The world does
not stop at jwm.

BFN.


oui wrote:
Other ones may be beautiful but fat terribly Puppy and requires new manipulations from newbies! Why not a really common way for all using for the other desktop environment dotsfs packages? RHS did made possible to start those dotfs packages immediately at starting time through some cfg file for the initrd!


you « was born to love and not to hate» so your favorite song, the Sophocles song!

You hate JWM and for this reason (or analog reason of others thinking they have to change, they say for it "develop", Puppy differently as BK did create it! Some other refuses mTpaint (although BK itself is a real graphic developer specialist) because also the manual of mTpaint is difficult for foreign users etc.,

Puppy has to be condamned to become fat?

pls, it is nonsens pure!

use dotsfs for other stuff divergent from those decided by BK in his stamples...


no other WM can be smaller than JWM and so beautiful at the same time! You can add bars and bars and background pictures as you want without some other app or extension with only a few lines

as user, you have nothing to do in the .jwmrc : BK did made the support about automatic and if you as developer are not able to write some lines in XHTML please renounce to develop and write poetry...

and we have to tolerate your nonsens "decision"?

we want and need real Puppy's...

if the concept from Puppy is wrong for you as BK did create it, it's simple, go away, create your own beautiful distribution with your own site and forum... what are those criticasters ensconced in the Puppy stuff and community, especially in the foreing language subdivision where it not appears so open for all and changing the rules! really...


distrowatch gives you no justification for such comportment: Puppy was place 8..9 just before it did become fat Mad ...

and now, what a success really! look yourself that kind of success ...
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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 2157

PostPosted: Sat 23 Mar 2019, 19:43    Post subject:  

oui wrote:
Christian,
distrowatch gives you no justification for such comportment: Puppy was place 8..9 just before it did become fat Mad ...

and now, what a success really! look yourself that kind of success ...


There are lightweight distributions (e.g. MXLinux and antiX) which are larger than puppy but more popular than puppy.. I'm not saying that puppy should be bigger or smaller, I'm just saying that it doesn't follow that puppy getting a bit larger makes it less popular.

Also aside from MXLinux and antiX most small/light weight distributions don't rank high on distrowatch. Therefore we should not get too concerned about these rankings.
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Sat 23 Mar 2019, 21:04    Post subject:  

removed to be edited
see later posts

wanderer

Last edited by wanderer on Sat 23 Mar 2019, 23:49; edited 1 time in total
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Sat 23 Mar 2019, 21:29    Post subject:  

hi all

i also am reading wiaks comments on woof-ce
very interesting

wanderer
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 14481
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sat 23 Mar 2019, 22:03    Post subject:  

wanderer wrote:
hi all

i also am reading wiaks comments on woof-ce
very interesting

wanderer

Where, please?

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musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
Je suis né pour aimer et non pas pour haïr. (Sophocle) /
I was born to love and not to hate. (Sophocles)
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Sat 23 Mar 2019, 22:07    Post subject:  

on the puppy projects - distributions created thread

read them

they are at the end

and tell me what you think


wanderer
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 14481
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sat 23 Mar 2019, 22:47    Post subject:  

oui,

You're like the old soldier saying that Rome or Berlin or Paris were more beautiful
before the war. Please stop that and get real.

You're gluing Puppy and jwm together, which is quite artificial. There have been
Puppies by BK with icewm.

As to my dislike of xml, what computers language do you master? Also, jwm is fat
compared to aewm and wmx, it is not the slimmest WM.

Plus what good is a Puppy based on do-ocracy if users cannot experiment with
new choices?

If Puppy is down on the DW chart, the fact that major devs from a few years ago,
like aragon, MU, pemasu, starhawk (an expert in painting applications) and iguleder,
Sailor Enceladus more recently (also I'm sure I'm forgetting a few) have left Puppy,
probably that has more of a bearing on the question. The question is rather why
did they leave? Real reasons, or disguised personality conflicts with some other
collaborators here? Or they found this forum not supportive enough of their work?
(I know that is the case for one of them at least: he said so publicly in one of
his threads.)

But s243a is right: DW is a bad indicator. Also anyone who has followed DW's
articles about Puppy and Quirky can tell that positive articles from the DW authors
about us are few and far between. In short they have it in for us, they jump to
conclusions a lot, they are not as thorough with us as they are with the the other
distros.

To return the compliment, I notice that Puppy's rating on DW has gone down a few
more points since (because?) you have started this thread. Bravo, oui! Keep it up!
I hope you realize that I am teasing you: the blame game does not lead anywhere.

BFN.

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musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
Je suis né pour aimer et non pas pour haïr. (Sophocle) /
I was born to love and not to hate. (Sophocles)
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Sun 24 Mar 2019, 01:30    Post subject:  

hi all

i am posting this from palemoon in dpup stretch

very nice looking distro

seems to be working fine

haven't used puppy on this laptop before

only corepup

a blast from the past


wanderer
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Sun 24 Mar 2019, 03:22    Post subject:  

ahh

it is all coming back to me

what i dealt with
when i was trying to minimize puppy in the past

the design of puppy
does not allow it to be
an efficient minimal modular system

yes you could make every application and dependency
into its own sfs file

this of course would be a herculean task in itself

but then you would be loading
literally hundreds of layers
onto the layered file system

this would put a enormous and unnecessary burden
on the cpu

woof-ce is not relevant to this problem
and can only add or subtract components
to the main file systems

puppy is a beautiful system

but if you want an efficient minimal modular system
i would advise you to try corepup/tinycore

wanderer
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Smithy


Joined: 12 Dec 2011
Posts: 1067

PostPosted: Sun 24 Mar 2019, 05:36    Post subject:  

@Oui,
how about trying something in this ball park?
DELL SX280 750 MB Pentium4, =Thin Slacko
Acer emachines 2 GB AMD64. =Thin Slacko
DELL XPS15 =Thin Slacko

https://archive.org/download/Puppy_Linux_ThinSlacko
99mb, you're not really going to do any better than that.
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oui

Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 3494
Location: near Woof (Germany) :-) - 3 PC's: DELL SX280 750 MB Pentium4, Acer emachines 2 GB AMD64. DELL XPS15

PostPosted: Sun 24 Mar 2019, 06:13    Post subject:  

Hi wanderer

As long as BK did offers himself new Puppy's was Puppy the leader of the small or tiny Linux derivates at DW. It is the representative of that subset of Operations Systems. Why?

Old PCs did need a push to begin a new phase of her life: Obsolete PC's used by people having no other access to PC or internet.

In the most modern countries a lot of people don't have some PC.

More, in those countries a lot of people don't have internet, can't accede to Google the evil or Wikipedia the holy.

it exceeds our imagination to go two or three decades back into the time without PC and internet. Some of the forum user did never live so...

the quantity of obsolete PC waiting for optimal use in the word is colossal!

and Puppy is the leader under the OS being able to give those hardware a new chance although the conditions are today more worse as a decade or more ago: a lot of pages a the one side and a lot of old hardware (printers, scanner, video cam's etc.) at the other side, are excluded to be used online because "they run" on an old OS.

new puppy's stay of course at disposition also for new hardware (but those hardware come usually with a own complete environment free or for cheap and are not dependent from Puppy). new puppy's stay at disposition and are important for old and obsolete hardware giving them speed and modern technology else if no original drivers and system reconstitution's CD are available any more and update / upgrade rights are not present.

those users having placed Puppy at rang 8 or 9 in the past did find in the last main activity time from BK a system being loadable about on each old PC with more than probably 128 MB (I will reinstall my oldest bookPC with i486 Rolling Eyes used with the Puppy's release 1.xx and before to test divers later Puppy's but I must find time because that activity is pure time killer. It did have probably only 64 MB Laughing to see what is the matter) because they are billions of those old hardware in

poor countries

(above I did write on rich countries Wink ) in the world = in Africa, in South America, in India, in Far East, in Oceania! They need OS's for old hardware, they need stuff for complex writing (no problem using a good browser), they need network, they would need urgently Skype because of troubles on classic phones, etc.

how important is that:

enormous important. I have a Braille reading panel at home. This was a terrible expensive equipment at his time! But it need old hardware: no USB connection, only RS232 in pure connection (no transmitter USB/RS232 possible! a Braille reading panel is one of the most complex home equipment as the users have wide needs as they are blind: the panel speaks to the blind user as he can't read some instructions on it...). That equipment can transform totally the life of the user having it in poor countries... he can read google and wikipedia with it. he can study, can be informed, can have buddies far on the world (I also have a Braille typewriter and an very old totaly manual Braille punching board: A Braille panel with electro-mechanized points giving the relief of Braille writing is totally different)!

It is only one example how a modern OS can be important because you can continue to use the in this case very important obsolete RS232 and modern browsers because you can use old PC's. The industrial production from 1,5 .. 3 decades for special equipments like that Braille long panel / sometimes also named Braille monitor, wait in the world because nobody more can really use the old PC and Special equipment hardwares in a the environment of modern internet...

excepted with Puppy (wanderer, I don't know the distros you did name, I know only 4 little linux: Puppy, SliTaz, Slax and the microbe BASlin. But I am about certain that only Puppy have realistic chances to support such a complex equipment eventually in an extreme complex environment where geographic position, sound channels, video with tons of dependencies have to communicate with each other. We did follow in that forum 2 great projects with Puppy used in legal schools on more than 100 PC's. It is difficult enough. But a pupil can come and say: «Dear teatcher, here is my Braille panel to connect!»)

but the distro builder used by Puppy developers actually blows Puppy so extreme that a lot of PC hardware become unusuable with them because you have no access to old additional memory bars etc,

if someone publish a Puppy for a certain Linux, for ex. actual Debian testing (*1, nobody more will remake it again after him: The experience demonstrate that he eliminates the chance to see appear such an other release of that stuff with optimal parameters...

it was the starting point of that thread!

(*1 it was some kind of one-bone with, the first ISO, 324 MB!
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 14481
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sun 24 Mar 2019, 08:12    Post subject:  

Shucks, oui. Not another novelette...
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musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
Je suis né pour aimer et non pas pour haïr. (Sophocle) /
I was born to love and not to hate. (Sophocles)
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backi

Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 1833
Location: GERMANY

PostPosted: Sun 24 Mar 2019, 10:11    Post subject:  

Oui wrote:
Quote:
above I did write on rich countries Wink ) in the world = in Africa, in South America, in India, in Far East, in Oceania! They need OS's for old hardware, they need stuff for complex writing (no problem using a good browser), they need network, they would need urgently Skype because of troubles on classic phones, etc.


I think what they need most is .....Birth Control .
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