How to install Puppy as the only OS on hard disk?
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mwelbourne
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Wed 16 Jan 2019, 16:14
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mwelbourne
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Wed 16 Jan 2019, 16:14
Right. forget that last request. I've made a bootable CD and I've got Xenial running on the Packard Bell. However, the Pale Moon browser will not open. When I click on the Palemoon updater it says that Pale Moon requires a processor that supports SSE2 instruction.
I've tried installing Firefox and that won't open either. Is that because Firefox need SSE2 as well?
I've tried installing Firefox and that won't open either. Is that because Firefox need SSE2 as well?
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ITSMERSH
The processor Athon XP-M in the Packard Bell seems to be build from 2001 to 2005. Probably Xenial and its kernel, browser etc. is just too new?
Trying Tahr Puppy also by 666philb or a version of the massively updated Lucid Puppy by rerwin will fit?
Since you had successfully installed to internal HD and successfully burnt a .iso to a bootable CD, you might be able to try the above mentioned Puppies?
Just a suggestion...
Trying Tahr Puppy also by 666philb or a version of the massively updated Lucid Puppy by rerwin will fit?
Since you had successfully installed to internal HD and successfully burnt a .iso to a bootable CD, you might be able to try the above mentioned Puppies?
Just a suggestion...
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Mike Walsh
- Posts: 6351
- Joined: Sat 28 Jun 2014, 12:42
- Location: King's Lynn, UK.
@ mwelbourne:-
RSH has got the right idea for your situation.
If the Packard Bell is running an Athlon XP-M, you've either got the 'Thoroughbred' or 'Barton' cores. Both of these only had SSE instructions; current Palemoon, as downloaded from the Palemoon site, is compiled to need an SSE2-capable CPU. SSE2 is pretty much the required minimum for the majority of modern web browsers.
As things stand, in my estimation, Xenialpup is asking a bit much for that old girl. Our general recommendation is usually to try the newest Puppies first, then if that proves too much for your hardware, to work backwards until you find one that will work OK with it.
Personally, I feel that the next older one, Tahrpup, may also prove a bit much. It's a brilliant Puppy, no doubt about it, but my old Dell lappie - an Inspiron 1100, from 2002, with an SSE2-equipped Pentium 4, did 'struggle' a bit with it. My recommendation would be to try 'old faithful', Precise 5.7.1. This is fast becoming accepted by the community as being the recognised 'standard' for hardware of that vintage. It's what I run now in the Dell lappie.....and it works great.
Lucid may also be worth a try. I'd recommend you try the 'Sulu-002' variant.
You can find the Precise 571 ISO here:-
http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/precise-5.7.1/
.....and the main thread for Lucid can be found here:-
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=90461
Follow the links for downloads from Richard's MediaFire a/c.
If you have a need for older drivers, such as for modems & the like, try Precise-5.7.1-retro; it's built with an older kernel. Otherwise, standard 571 should work fine.
Precise & Lucid should both install in exactly the same way as Xenialpup did.....sounds like you're now getting the hang of things..!
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As for a version of Palemoon that will work with your CPU, you're in luck; we've got you covered there, as well. Forum member watchdog has put together a number of Palemoon packages, compiled for SSE-only CPUs, and incorporating a built-in glibc 'upgrade', too. You can find that here:-
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 676#973676
Scroll down to the bottom of the post to find the newest version, 27.9.4. If that should prove too much, perhaps try one of the earlier versions? (Forum member keniv has reported success with 27.9.4; he runs a Pentium III - also with SSEs only - it was the Athlon's main contemporary at the time of release.)
If you decide to try this route (which I feel would work better for you), let us know how you get on, please?
Mike.
RSH has got the right idea for your situation.
If the Packard Bell is running an Athlon XP-M, you've either got the 'Thoroughbred' or 'Barton' cores. Both of these only had SSE instructions; current Palemoon, as downloaded from the Palemoon site, is compiled to need an SSE2-capable CPU. SSE2 is pretty much the required minimum for the majority of modern web browsers.
As things stand, in my estimation, Xenialpup is asking a bit much for that old girl. Our general recommendation is usually to try the newest Puppies first, then if that proves too much for your hardware, to work backwards until you find one that will work OK with it.
Personally, I feel that the next older one, Tahrpup, may also prove a bit much. It's a brilliant Puppy, no doubt about it, but my old Dell lappie - an Inspiron 1100, from 2002, with an SSE2-equipped Pentium 4, did 'struggle' a bit with it. My recommendation would be to try 'old faithful', Precise 5.7.1. This is fast becoming accepted by the community as being the recognised 'standard' for hardware of that vintage. It's what I run now in the Dell lappie.....and it works great.
Lucid may also be worth a try. I'd recommend you try the 'Sulu-002' variant.
You can find the Precise 571 ISO here:-
http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/precise-5.7.1/
.....and the main thread for Lucid can be found here:-
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=90461
Follow the links for downloads from Richard's MediaFire a/c.
If you have a need for older drivers, such as for modems & the like, try Precise-5.7.1-retro; it's built with an older kernel. Otherwise, standard 571 should work fine.
Precise & Lucid should both install in exactly the same way as Xenialpup did.....sounds like you're now getting the hang of things..!
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As for a version of Palemoon that will work with your CPU, you're in luck; we've got you covered there, as well. Forum member watchdog has put together a number of Palemoon packages, compiled for SSE-only CPUs, and incorporating a built-in glibc 'upgrade', too. You can find that here:-
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 676#973676
Scroll down to the bottom of the post to find the newest version, 27.9.4. If that should prove too much, perhaps try one of the earlier versions? (Forum member keniv has reported success with 27.9.4; he runs a Pentium III - also with SSEs only - it was the Athlon's main contemporary at the time of release.)
If you decide to try this route (which I feel would work better for you), let us know how you get on, please?
Mike.
Mike has given good solid advice.
Tahr will not do. Its Palemoon is SSE2, and perhaps some other apps as well.
However, I have used Tahr on such machine with just SSE (AMD Palomino), but I had to replace Palemoon with something else.
I used QtWeb a lot then, and firefox up to some version also worked. I did not know the SSE Palemoon at the time.
I also ran Wary 5.5, which was the nicest experience on that machine.
You will have some limitations, but it is still possible to have a good experience.
Just for the record.ITSMERSH wrote:Trying Tahr Puppy also by 666philb ...
Tahr will not do. Its Palemoon is SSE2, and perhaps some other apps as well.
However, I have used Tahr on such machine with just SSE (AMD Palomino), but I had to replace Palemoon with something else.
I used QtWeb a lot then, and firefox up to some version also worked. I did not know the SSE Palemoon at the time.
I also ran Wary 5.5, which was the nicest experience on that machine.
You will have some limitations, but it is still possible to have a good experience.
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Mike Walsh
- Posts: 6351
- Joined: Sat 28 Jun 2014, 12:42
- Location: King's Lynn, UK.
@ foxpup:-
I guess it should be possible to replace the built-in Palemoon with one of watchdog's builds.....if you really wanted to run Tahrpup on such an elderly box.
I arrived at Precise for the old Dell purely through experimentation. Tahr 6.0.5 (the fist Puppy I ever used with it) would run on there, but it was....slow & steady, shall we say? Raring runs OK, but had 'issues' with Xorg. Lucid's not bad, but I could not get the old Synaptics touchpad to work correctly in Lucid; it jittered about like a spider on crack!
Tahr 6.0.6 just will not run, period; AFAIK, the only real difference between 605 and 606 was the slightly newer kernel, and the UEFI stuff. Xenial, on the other hand, which uses exactly the same set-up, will run.....but gawd, is it sl-o-o-o-www.
Precise, on the other hand is quite sprightly, all things considered. I don't care what anybody says; subsequent Puppies have been great, and there have have been some crackers amongst them.....but for my money, any Puppy fashioned under the Puppymaster's loving care is just a wee bit 'special'.
(Y'know, I've just had a thought; maybe the problem - for me - is 606's kernel? I might try 606 with 605's kernel.....or maybe even Xenial's kernel, since that one does at least run. Mikeslr put Xenial's kernel into 606, and reported success, so I may try that. Hmm... Decisions, decisions.....)
Can't have everything, I suppose..... (*sheesh*)
Mike.
I guess it should be possible to replace the built-in Palemoon with one of watchdog's builds.....if you really wanted to run Tahrpup on such an elderly box.
I arrived at Precise for the old Dell purely through experimentation. Tahr 6.0.5 (the fist Puppy I ever used with it) would run on there, but it was....slow & steady, shall we say? Raring runs OK, but had 'issues' with Xorg. Lucid's not bad, but I could not get the old Synaptics touchpad to work correctly in Lucid; it jittered about like a spider on crack!
Tahr 6.0.6 just will not run, period; AFAIK, the only real difference between 605 and 606 was the slightly newer kernel, and the UEFI stuff. Xenial, on the other hand, which uses exactly the same set-up, will run.....but gawd, is it sl-o-o-o-www.
Precise, on the other hand is quite sprightly, all things considered. I don't care what anybody says; subsequent Puppies have been great, and there have have been some crackers amongst them.....but for my money, any Puppy fashioned under the Puppymaster's loving care is just a wee bit 'special'.
(Y'know, I've just had a thought; maybe the problem - for me - is 606's kernel? I might try 606 with 605's kernel.....or maybe even Xenial's kernel, since that one does at least run. Mikeslr put Xenial's kernel into 606, and reported success, so I may try that. Hmm... Decisions, decisions.....)
Ah, tell me about it..! I really wish QTWeb still worked with as many modern sites as it did when I first tried it nearly 3 years ago. It was the lightest, snappiest browser for the Dell by a long chalk..!!foxpup wrote:I used QtWeb a lot then, and firefox up to some version also worked...
Can't have everything, I suppose..... (*sheesh*)
Mike.
Tahrpup w/ on of Rockedge's RT kernels
Hi Mike and All,
Rather than the kernel I used in the Tahrpup remaster, try one of rockedges real-time kernels from here: http://rockedge.org/kernels/
I was pleasantly surprised to discover that they actually use less RAM than a kernel which wasn't real time.
Rather than the kernel I used in the Tahrpup remaster, try one of rockedges real-time kernels from here: http://rockedge.org/kernels/
I was pleasantly surprised to discover that they actually use less RAM than a kernel which wasn't real time.
That's what I would do also, since I know of this non SSE2 Palemoons now. There are also builds of Walter Dnes.Mike Walsh wrote:@ foxpup:-
I guess it should be possible to replace the built-in Palemoon with one of watchdog's builds.....if you really wanted to run Tahrpup on such an elderly box.
It was Tahr 6.0.2 I used. I had Tahr installed when 6.0.2 was the most recent version. The kernel 3.14.20 was perfect for my Palomino.Tahr 6.0.6 just will not run, period.
I remastered it to be as light as possible with as much as I needed. I remastered it manually: I unsquashed the main sfs, added and removed, and squashed it again. It was a lot of fun and I learned a lot.
Another Puppy that worked fine was Classic Puppy 2.14.
This Palomino machine is now on the attic on vacation. I am sure one day I will bring it back on my desk.
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ITSMERSH
Re: Tahrpup w/ on of Rockedge's RT kernels
I have tried a real time kernel for my Tahr based Art Studio. Worked well until I tried to make some music. Lots of mainly used plugins I tried, gave a warning about NOT being compiled for real time kernel. In the end these plugins just produced simply horrible noise.mikeslr wrote:Hi Mike and All,
Rather than the kernel I used in the Tahrpup remaster, try one of rockedges real-time kernels from here: http://rockedge.org/kernels/
I was pleasantly surprised to discover that they actually use less RAM than a kernel which wasn't real time.
Anything else went fine, though...
...however, I dropped it for the reason of doing music and needing those plugins.
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mwelbourne
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Wed 16 Jan 2019, 16:14
Hello All. Thanks for the info. And apologies for the delay in looking at this, I've only just found some time to cycle back to this project.
So, I didn't understand some of what was being said (not too clear really what a kernel actually is) but I'm going to give the Precise 571 solution a try. I shall need to refresh my memory on how I created a boot disk and got that to work on the Packard Bell, hopefully it will come back to me once I give it a try.
No doubt I will get stuck so I'll probably be asking some daft questions pretty soon - but asking questions is how you learn new stuff!!!!
Precise 571 here I come
So, I didn't understand some of what was being said (not too clear really what a kernel actually is) but I'm going to give the Precise 571 solution a try. I shall need to refresh my memory on how I created a boot disk and got that to work on the Packard Bell, hopefully it will come back to me once I give it a try.
No doubt I will get stuck so I'll probably be asking some daft questions pretty soon - but asking questions is how you learn new stuff!!!!
Precise 571 here I come
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mwelbourne
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Wed 16 Jan 2019, 16:14
Right, I've had a go and I'm doing something wrong.
I followed the link for the Precise 571 iso and downloaded the 5th item on the list that says precise-5.7.1.iso
I'm then not clear how to make a bootable cd. I've got some software called WinISO so I used this to burn the .iso to a CD.
I then put it in the Packard Bell set to boot from CD drive and it comes up with "ISOLINUX 3.73 2009-01-25 ETCD" and a flashing cursor. So I'm stuck already.
I followed the link for the Precise 571 iso and downloaded the 5th item on the list that says precise-5.7.1.iso
I'm then not clear how to make a bootable cd. I've got some software called WinISO so I used this to burn the .iso to a CD.
I then put it in the Packard Bell set to boot from CD drive and it comes up with "ISOLINUX 3.73 2009-01-25 ETCD" and a flashing cursor. So I'm stuck already.
A search for this error. Several people report that a fresh new download of the iso and a new fresh iso image burn fixed it.ISOLINUX 3.73 2009-01-25 ETCD
I would try to do a fresh new download of the Precise 5.7.1.iso.
Downloads can be bad.
If the iso is being downloaded to a location formatted in a Windows fat32 or ntfs format.
Those formats can get fragmented.
That will make a fragmented iso. That can cause problems.
Use Windows chkdsk and defrag programs to check the drive partition, before doing the iso download.
Use a new iso download.
Do a fresh new iso image burn.
Try to burn at a low speed. 8X or less.
I assume there is nothing wrong with the CD/DVD drive and the burning is working OK.
Good idea to run a cleaning disk in the drive.
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected
YaPI(any iso installer)
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected
YaPI(any iso installer)
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Mike Walsh
- Posts: 6351
- Joined: Sat 28 Jun 2014, 12:42
- Location: King's Lynn, UK.
@ mwelbourne:-
If you're doing this from Windows, download BurnCDCC from here:-
https://www.terabyteunlimited.com/downl ... ftware.htm
....and try that instead. It's extremely simple; it does one thing, and one thing only......burns an ISO image to an optical disc. Many folks have reported complete success with it.
Just unzip, and run from anywhere you like.
Mike.
If you're doing this from Windows, download BurnCDCC from here:-
https://www.terabyteunlimited.com/downl ... ftware.htm
....and try that instead. It's extremely simple; it does one thing, and one thing only......burns an ISO image to an optical disc. Many folks have reported complete success with it.
Just unzip, and run from anywhere you like.
Mike.
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mwelbourne
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Wed 16 Jan 2019, 16:14
Brilliant, thanks for that. I did a new download of the .iso and used BurnCDCC and this new disk has booted up Precise.
It comes installed with SeaMonkey 2.19 browser - when I gave Youtube a try I got a message saying that Youtube no longer supports this browser
Will there be a browser that doesn't need SSE2 that will still work with Youtube?
It comes installed with SeaMonkey 2.19 browser - when I gave Youtube a try I got a message saying that Youtube no longer supports this browser
Will there be a browser that doesn't need SSE2 that will still work with Youtube?
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Mike Walsh
- Posts: 6351
- Joined: Sat 28 Jun 2014, 12:42
- Location: King's Lynn, UK.
@ mwelbourne:-
There's a version of PaleMoon (27.9.4) - the last of the 27 series - which was specially compiled against SSE-only. Watchdog did a .pet for it, which also included a built-in version of glibc 2.19 (from Tahrpup, I believe), that allows it to run in older Pups, like Lucid and Wary/Racy.
I took a cue from fredx181's 'portable' FF-Quantum, and turned watchdog's .pet into a 'portable'. This means that you can sit it in /mnt/home, by virtue of which it's not occupying 'Puppy-space'; i.e., it's not taking up space in your save-file.
All you have to do is download it, unzip the tarball, then place the resulting 'palemoon32' directory into /mnt/home. You start it with the 'plmn' script inside the palemoon32 directory. By using the script, it sets up your profile inside that directory.....and so long as you always start it with the script, it will always use the internal profile.
The beauty of this is that once it's set-up with profile and everything else, you can copy the palemoon32 directory to other Puppies if you want to, and it will run just the same there.
You can drag the 'plmn' script onto the desktop as a launcher; it's impractical to include a MenuEntry with the .pet, because not everybody will want to place it in the same location. I myself run it from a remote, auto-mounted partition, and it's shared amongst 8 different Pups.
If you're interested, you can find it here:-
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mDsyL3 ... sp=sharing
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As for extensions, since this is based on an older version of Firefox (pre-'Quantum'), it can't use the current Firefox extensions, which are now built using the WebAPI format. 666philb (the developer of Tahrpup, Xenialpup, and Bionicpup) found this 'classic' add-ons archive that's been specially put-together for PaleMoon:-
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 67#1021167
I think the archive's been further updated since Phil first posted about it, but you'll find it on the GitHub link in his post.
Hope some of that helps.
Mike.
There's a version of PaleMoon (27.9.4) - the last of the 27 series - which was specially compiled against SSE-only. Watchdog did a .pet for it, which also included a built-in version of glibc 2.19 (from Tahrpup, I believe), that allows it to run in older Pups, like Lucid and Wary/Racy.
I took a cue from fredx181's 'portable' FF-Quantum, and turned watchdog's .pet into a 'portable'. This means that you can sit it in /mnt/home, by virtue of which it's not occupying 'Puppy-space'; i.e., it's not taking up space in your save-file.
All you have to do is download it, unzip the tarball, then place the resulting 'palemoon32' directory into /mnt/home. You start it with the 'plmn' script inside the palemoon32 directory. By using the script, it sets up your profile inside that directory.....and so long as you always start it with the script, it will always use the internal profile.
The beauty of this is that once it's set-up with profile and everything else, you can copy the palemoon32 directory to other Puppies if you want to, and it will run just the same there.
You can drag the 'plmn' script onto the desktop as a launcher; it's impractical to include a MenuEntry with the .pet, because not everybody will want to place it in the same location. I myself run it from a remote, auto-mounted partition, and it's shared amongst 8 different Pups.
If you're interested, you can find it here:-
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mDsyL3 ... sp=sharing
------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for extensions, since this is based on an older version of Firefox (pre-'Quantum'), it can't use the current Firefox extensions, which are now built using the WebAPI format. 666philb (the developer of Tahrpup, Xenialpup, and Bionicpup) found this 'classic' add-ons archive that's been specially put-together for PaleMoon:-
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 67#1021167
I think the archive's been further updated since Phil first posted about it, but you'll find it on the GitHub link in his post.
Hope some of that helps.
Mike.
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sheldonisaac
- Posts: 902
- Joined: Mon 22 Jun 2009, 01:36
- Location: Philadelphia, PA
Please excuse, Mike Walsh:Mike Walsh (in part) wrote:.. turned watchdog's .pet into a 'portable'
..download it, unzip the tarball, then place the resulting 'palemoon32' directory into /mnt/home. You start it with the 'plmn' script inside the palemoon32 directory.
I'm using musher0's Xenial 7.0.6 on this Dell E6410
I did as you said, and here's what happened.
Code: Select all
/mnt/home/palemoon32>./plmn
/initrd/mnt/dev_save/palemoon32/launch: line 5: 1876 Segmentation fault $LAUNCHDIR/glibc219/lib/ld-linux.so.2 --library-path $LAUNCHDIR/glibc219/lib:$LAUNCHDIR/glibc219/usr/lib:$LAUNCHDIR/glibc219/libstdc++:/usr/X11R7/lib:$LAUNCHDIR $LAUNCHDIR/palemoon "$@"
Thank you,
Sheldon Isaac
Dell E6410: BusterPup, BionicPup64, Xenial, etc
Intel DQ35JOE, Dell Vostro 430
Dell Inspiron, Acer Aspire One, EeePC 1018P
Intel DQ35JOE, Dell Vostro 430
Dell Inspiron, Acer Aspire One, EeePC 1018P
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mwelbourne
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Wed 16 Jan 2019, 16:14
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mwelbourne
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Wed 16 Jan 2019, 16:14
I'm pleased to say I got it to work. The framerate on Youtube was quite poor though. Is there anything I can do about that (other than use a newer laptop)?
Also, can I add Precise onto the hard drive so it's a choice in the boot menu? Xenial is still on there. When I first shut Precise down I though it had added itself to the hard drive. Maybe I need to edit some text like I did before so that it appears as a choice.
Also, can I add Precise onto the hard drive so it's a choice in the boot menu? Xenial is still on there. When I first shut Precise down I though it had added itself to the hard drive. Maybe I need to edit some text like I did before so that it appears as a choice.