I think my integrated webcam is stuffed

Message

mow9902 · #1 Post by **mow9902** » Sun 23 Dec 2018, 23:52

My hardware:
DELL latitude laptop with integrated webcam identified as Laptop_Integrated_Webcam_FHD

My OS:
Puppy tahr 6.0.5 frugal install

My problem:
I get no 'output' from the integrated webcam. It used to work - but now it doesn't.
If I use guvcview I get a black screen
If I use VLC to capture the device I get a black screen
If I use skype I get a black screen

However, if I plug in a USB webcam (old logitech spare I have), and select video1 (instead of the default video0) then all works normally.

My wife also has the exact same system (hardware and OS) and the integrated webcam works perfectly.

I try to self support, and have browsed as many of the posts as I could regarding setting up and solving webcam problems; but I just cannot get a lead of this.

I do see error messages in the dmesg output, and also when I run guvcview in a terminal. Unfortunately I do not have enough knowledge to understand what it is telling me.

I would really appreciate some help with this - because I am suspecting that I might have a hardware fault with the integrated webcam - but I want to be sure before I give up on it completely.

Thanks in anticipation.

bigpup · #2 Post by **bigpup** » Mon 24 Dec 2018, 04:07

DELL latitude laptop

What exact model?

Any chance this has an off/on switch for camera?
Keyboard switch, key combination, physical switch, etc......

pci 0000:00:02.0: Boot video device
Linux video capture interface: v2.00
uvcvideo: Found UVC 1.00 device Laptop_Integrated_Webcam_FHD (05ca:181c)
usbcore: registered new interface driver uvcvideo
uvcvideo: Failed to query (SET_CUR) UVC control 3 on unit 1: -32 (exp. 1).
uvcvideo: Failed to query (SET_CUR) UVC control 11 on unit 2: -32 (exp. 1).
uvcvideo: Failed to query (SET_CUR) UVC control 11 on unit 2: -32 (exp. 1).

This seems to indicate the camera is detected, but the driver is not able to activate it.

bigpup · #3 Post by **bigpup** » Mon 24 Dec 2018, 04:57

Puppy tahr 6.0.5

Have you done any modifications to tahr 6.0.5?
Maybe using a different Linux kernel?
Anything you may have installed just before the camera stopped working?

Try booting not using the save.
Any different?

Could try pushing/squeezing on the location the camera is located. Not sure if yours plugs in with a cable or by contacts at mount point.
These laptop cameras are a small circuit board.
But it is getting detected, so this is a long shot.

mow9902 · #4 Post by **mow9902** » Mon 24 Dec 2018, 06:43

bigpup - Thanks for taking an interest ...answers to your questions:

What exact model?

DELL latitude E6420

Any chance this has an off/on switch for camera?
Keyboard switch, key combination, physical switch, etc......

No switches - totally integrated.

pci 0000:00:02.0: Boot video device
Linux video capture interface: v2.00
uvcvideo: Found UVC 1.00 device Laptop_Integrated_Webcam_FHD (05ca:181c)
usbcore: registered new interface driver uvcvideo
uvcvideo: Failed to query (SET_CUR) UVC control 3 on unit 1: -32 (exp. 1).
uvcvideo: Failed to query (SET_CUR) UVC control 11 on unit 2: -32 (exp. 1).
uvcvideo: Failed to query (SET_CUR) UVC control 11 on unit 2: -32 (exp. 1).

This seems to indicate the camera is detected, but the driver is not able to activate it.

The small light at the camera position does actually come on when the camera is selected with either guvcview or VLC

mow9902 · #5 Post by **mow9902** » Mon 24 Dec 2018, 06:48

Have you done any modifications to tahr 6.0.5?
Maybe using a different Linux kernel?
Anything you may have installed just before the camera stopped working?

Try booting not using the save.
Any different?

Could try pushing/squeezing on the location the camera is located. Not sure if yours plugs in with a cable or by contacts at mount point.
These laptop cameras are a small circuit board.
But it is getting detected, so this is a long shot.

- No modifications which I am aware of
- Not sure exactly when the camera stopped working - I don't often use it
- I have booted without using the save file - same result
- I have tried pushing/squeezing on the location of the camera - no noticeably impact. The camera is fully integrated. There is no visible cable or contact point

bigpup · #6 Post by **bigpup** » Mon 24 Dec 2018, 13:05

There is no visible cable or contact point

Those are inside the computer lid housing were the camera is located.

With the light coming on, but no camera.
Just may be camera is broken.

You said you have another exact computer that has a working camera.
What is the dmesg output on that computer?

Could you try booting using a different Puppy version?
Xenialpup 7.5 32bit or 64 bit
Bionicpup64 7.9.7
See if they maybe work.

mow9902 · #7 Post by **mow9902** » Mon 24 Dec 2018, 20:47

You said you have another exact computer that has a working camera.

bigpup wrote:
What is the dmesg output on that computer?

Could you try booting using a different Puppy version?
Xenialpup 7.5 32bit or 64 bit
Bionicpup64 7.9.7
See if they maybe work.

I have attached dmesg output of the 'other' computer. I do notice some lines in the dmesg which are slightly different -
pwc: Registered as video1.
video LNXVIDEO:00: Restoring backlight state

Will try a different puppy after christmas.

mow9902 · #8 Post by **mow9902** » Thu 27 Dec 2018, 02:29

Another update. I have now also tried the following:

(a) downloaded and ran up a copy of xenial pup7.5
tried capturing video0 with VLC - same result, camera light comes on but black screen
tried with videoview - no camera light - blank screen

(b) booted my 'duplicate' machine (B) using the USB stick (tahrpup 6.0.5) from my machine (A)
webcam worked perfectly using VLC, videoview and guvcview

(c) booted my machine (A) using USB stick (tahrpup 6.0.5) from (B)
webcam not working - exactly same results - camera light comes on but black screen

So....I think the logical conclusion is that the fault exists only on my physical machine (A). It is not a fault with the tahrpup system on USB (A) or USB(B) nor with xenialpup. The fault must be the integrated webcam on machine (A).

If you can think of anything else I can try please contribute - but otherwise I think I am done. (unfortunately)

bigpup · #9 Post by **bigpup** » Thu 27 Dec 2018, 04:32

It is kind of looking like broken hardware. (camera)

You are sure there is no setting in the computers bios or some switch that will disable the camera?

I found this in a post about microphone not working.

Applies to all Dell Latitude E series before a bios update.
If you disable the webcam in the BIOS, the entire webcam/microphone board is disabled, which also takes down the microphone! I've personally confirmed this on a E6410 and E6320. It appears to be a hardware limitation that the webcam cannot be disabled independently of the microphone, as they are on the same board.

So look in the bios setup and make sure the camera is enabled.

Do you know how to get into the bios setup?

However, if it was not enabled in the bios it probably would not be seen by the Puppy OS.

Mike Walsh · #10 Post by **Mike Walsh** » Fri 28 Dec 2018, 02:23

@ mow9902:-

Just to add my tuppence-worth:-

If it was only guvcview you were having problems with, there is a 'workaround' for getting it going after a 'black screen' event. You simply start from the terminal with

Code: Select all

guvcview -r2

....which almost always succeeds, and the 'fix' will hold through subsequent re-boots.

However, if you're getting no joy with VideoView, I'm inclined to agree that your assessment of a 'stuffed' webcam sounds about right. When watchdog first put me onto VideoView, I very quickly discovered that it simply 'worked'. Absolutely everywhere, irrespective of webcam or OS. (I take it you're referring to /dev/video0, yes?)

---------------------------------

(There's also no point my recommending you try luvcview, originally built by 01micko for the Slackos, but, due to its very modest requirements, another one that just seems to work in every Pup I've ever tried it in. Even Lucid.)

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you're getting this same 'black screen' event with every app you try it with (and are having success with a plug-in USB model on those same apps), then I would simply say this; yes, it's galling to not be able to use built-in hardware.....but from the sound of things, you do at least have a working camera. (My 16-yr old Dell lappie came without built-in wireless or webcam, or anything else that we take for granted these days. So it uses a wireless dongle, USB webcam, external USB hard-drive, etc, etc.....even a wireless mouse and keyboard (the old girl makes a pretty good Puppy 'work-station', IMHO). Cables flying hither and yon.....but it's perfectly possible to use up-to-date equipment (if ya don't mind sitting in the middle of "Spaghetti Junction", that is..!))

You could be a lot worse off....

(*shrug*)

Mike.

mow9902 · #11 Post by **mow9902** » Fri 28 Dec 2018, 04:14

@ bigpup:-

So look in the bios setup and make sure the camera is enabled.

Do you know how to get into the bios setup?

However, if it was not enabled in the bios it probably would not be seen by the Puppy OS.

Yes - checked bios and confirmed both microphone and camera enabled. Just to try everything I unchecked both - rebooted into bios again - checked both again - and rebooted. No difference.

@ Mike Walsh:-

If it was only guvcview you were having problems with, there is a 'workaround' for getting it going after a 'black screen' event. You simply start from the terminal with

Code:
guvcview -r2

....which almost always succeeds, and the 'fix' will hold through subsequent re-boots.

However, if you're getting no joy with VideoView, I'm inclined to agree that your assessment of a 'stuffed' webcam sounds about right. When watchdog first put me onto VideoView, I very quickly discovered that it simply 'worked'. Absolutely everywhere, irrespective of webcam or OS. (I take it you're referring to /dev/video0, yes?)

Yep - already tried guvcview -r 2 - no impact

Yep - referring to /dev/video0

If you're getting this same 'black screen' event with every app you try it with (and are having success with a plug-in USB model on those same apps), then I would simply say this; yes, it's galling to not be able to use built-in hardware.....but from the sound of things, you do at least have a working camera.

Sure - but the problem is I cannot really 'control' it ie with the USB webcam plugged in I can use apps like skype or hangout etc ...but IF the camera settings are not quite right (blurry or too bright for the surroundings..whatever), then I cannot change any of the settings.
If I try to use guvcview then it only 'sees' the integrated cam on /dev/video0 and will not let me select the other cam on /dev/video1

If I try to use videoview it detects my external cam on /dev/video1 but when I try to select that device it asks me "if I want to restart or start another session.." When I try to do that it just goes into a loop with the same question. The result is that I cannot change any of the settings using videoview.

I have even tried renaming /dev/video0 to /dev/video0_not working, and creating a symlink called /dev/video0 pointing to /dev/video1 ; but no success. Neither gucview or videoview will let me change the settings.

Is there any way you know of to actually point either of these programs to /dev/video1 on the command line ..or as a start option?
Is there any other piece of software which will let me control the camera settings?

perdido · #12 Post by **perdido** » Fri 28 Dec 2018, 06:04

just a thought
if you disable the integrated video in BIOS maybe it will turn the /dev/video1 into /dev/video0...

.

Mike Walsh · #13 Post by **Mike Walsh** » Fri 28 Dec 2018, 11:25

@ mow9902:-

Mm. What I'd like to do is to check out this USB webcam of yours, and figure out why you can't access any of the settings controls.

I generally find with my Logitech c920 HD Pro that wherever you set the controls (in any one of 4 different webcam apps; Guvcview, Luvcview, UCView, or VideoView), that those settings will persist across the other apps.

My guess is that the USB webcam is not UVC-compatible, and therefore is not taking advantage of the kernel's built-in UVC module. If it was, then any of the above-mentioned apps could make those adjustments for you. Can you let us have the readout from

Code: Select all

lsusb

...please? (It's the chipset's hardware identifier I'm interested in here; it can be used to do a comparison in the UVC compatibility listings. If it's not there, that'll explain a lot.)

Re-naming or using sym-links won't really help; since it's the hardware identifier that the kernel works with, it still sees the same MAC address. Unless you can totally disable the built-in webcam in the BIOS, that is. If your USB cam is UVC-compatible, then it would make no difference whether it was '/dev/video0' or '/dev/video1'. Either would be seen.

Mike.

mow9902 · #14 Post by **mow9902** » Fri 28 Dec 2018, 22:11

I appreciate the discussion thus far...thanks

@ perdido:-

just a thought
if you disable the integrated video in BIOS maybe it will turn the /dev/video1 into /dev/video0...

I tried this suggestion. It does as you say ie it turns /dev/video1 into /dev/video0
I tried skype and hangouts and both worked fine showing the video input.

@ Mike Walsh
Mike - I've attached 2 zip files with 4 screen shots:
1. dmesg output with both cams ie integrated webcam enabled in bios and USB cam attached
2. lsusb output with both cams ie integrated webcam enabled in bios and USB cam attached
3. dmesg output with integrated cam disabled in bios but USB cam attached
4. lsusb out with integrated cam disabled in bios but USB cam attached

I can also report that:
I have found that I can control the USB cam (/dev/video1) settings from VLC (extended settings) both with the integrated cam (/dev/video0) enabled OR disabled.
If I have the integrated cam disabled (and the USB becomes /dev/video0) I cannot get guvcview or videoview to produce any output at all. guvcview 'sees' the USB cam and allows me to select it, but when I do, it shows nothing at all. Not even a black screen. It just doesn't show any camera output all.
videoview just has a blank in the 'video device' box where you can select your devices. Nothing is listed, and hence it cannot run at all

So - at least I have something I can work with ie I can control the USB cam settings with VLC and therefore use skype/hangouts etc using the USB cam.

Oh ..one more snippet of information. I found that with the integrated cam enabled in bios - if I fired up VLC and captured /dev/video0 it actually gives a darkened (but clearly discernible image) from the webcam for about a second before it goes completely black.

Mike Walsh · #15 Post by **Mike Walsh** » Sat 29 Dec 2018, 14:05

@ mow9902:-

Well, your USB cam (the Logitech Quickcam, yes?) doesn't actually show in the UVC-compat listings, but I'm not too worried about that; my c920 doesn't either, and it still works fine! Logitech produce new chips so rapidly I don't think the UVC Project can keep up with 'em.....

However, many of the Quickcams that are listed have a warning against them. Apparently first- and second-generation models used chips that were essentially 'unstable' with the UVC kernel driver module, and results were totally on an individual basis, dependent on your hardware combinations (seems it was a timing issue, so was related closely to actual CPU speed...

)

Still, it sounds as though you've found a 'work-around' that allows you to control it; that's the main thing. As long as you're able to do what you want, that's all that matters!

Mike.

greengeek · #16 Post by **greengeek** » Sun 30 Dec 2018, 20:25

Any chance of posting a clear photo of the integrated webcam? On some models you can see a small "eye" next to the Webcam lens.

The purpose of the eye is to sense environmental light intensity and lighten or darken the Webcam output accordingly. I think I have a utility somewhere that overrides this intensity detector and streams the Webcam output regardless of background light intensity. I will post back if I find it.

mow9902 · #17 Post by **mow9902** » Mon 31 Dec 2018, 05:05

..thanks greengeek - certainly worth a try.

Bit difficult to get clear photos, but here's a couple which I think shows what you want to see.

greengeek · #18 Post by **greengeek** » Mon 31 Dec 2018, 18:49

One of your comments suggested that you did see a flash of image at one point (unless i read it wrong). When i was making a security webcam script i encountered something similar when using ffmpeg to grab images from webcam. It seemed that you had to trap multiple frames and collect the best of them as the darkness/intensity settings "warmed up"

Just for interest sake maybe you could try my webcam image trapper here:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 750#969750

If you load the pet it creates a directory called /root/jpglooprecorder_portable

Inside that directory you can see a start script and a stop script.

Start it and let it cycle for about 20 seconds, then stop it and inspect the images it accumulates in the /root/jpglooprecorder_portable/jpgstore directory.

Are they all still black?

(the script contains a parameter defining which camera we want to trap so try it first with the usb cam unplugged at boot time. We can change the parameter manually if necessary - i have not built a gui yet)

(no menus or other files are installed so just delete the directories from /root once testing is finished and that leaves everything tidy)

EDIT : Also, this discussion starting here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 994#959994 may offer some ideas and test syntaxes that could help understand what your webcam is/isnot doing - especially if this is an issue with calibration of environmental backlight sensing.

Your webcam looks like it uses the light intensity sampled through it's own lens/CCD, rather than having a separate light intensity sensor.
(maybe this functionality has gone faulty on your webcam hardware)

EDIT : what happens if you try this syntax:
mplayer tv:// -tv driver=v4l2:device=/dev/video0
or:
mplayer tv:// -tv driver=v4l2:device=/dev/video1

EDIT : what happens if you try MochiMoppel's test here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 402#960402?
(Look in /tmp for the trapped images)

mow9902 · #19 Post by **mow9902** » Mon 31 Dec 2018, 20:49

@ greengeek:-

One of your comments suggested that you did see a flash of image at one point (unless i read it wrong). When i was making a security webcam script i encountered something similar when using ffmpeg to grab images from webcam. It seemed that you had to trap multiple frames and collect the best of them as the darkness/intensity settings "warmed up"

Yes - about a half second of dark (but discernible) output before it goes all black.

Just for interest sake maybe you could try my webcam image trapper here:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 750#969750

Tried it first after boot without the USB cam plugged in: all images produced were completely black
Plugged in USB cam and retried it with video1: all images perfectly normal

EDIT : what happens if you try this syntax:
mplayer tv:// -tv driver=v4l2:device=/dev/video0

all images produced were black

mplayer tv:// -tv driver=v4l2:device=/dev/video1

All images produced were perfectly normal

EDIT : what happens if you try MochiMoppel's test here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 402#960402?

All images produced were black

Mike Walsh · #20 Post by **Mike Walsh** » Tue 01 Jan 2019, 13:53

Hm.

I think all of the above confirms that the integrated web-cam is definitely "stuffed". After trying so many different things with both that and the USB webcam, you're finding that nothing does what it should with /dev/video0, yet everything's behaving itself with /dev/video1.

All credit to greengeek for sticking with you & trying out alternatives, but I really don't see what other conclusion you can draw...

(*shrug*)

Mike.

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I think my integrated webcam is stuffed

I think my integrated webcam is stuffed