Seeking solution to Windows messing with flash drive

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B.K. Johnson · #1 Post by **B.K. Johnson** » Tue 04 Dec 2018, 01:10

Hello
I have flash drive(s) that are used mostly in a puppy system as a storage device. I don't have a printer, so occasionally when I need to print a file, I take the flash drive to the library. The Windows machines used there always modify the drive, adding (1) a System Volume Information file (2) a null named directory in the root and (3) moving files in the root to the null named directory. [See screenshot - modified drive] I doubt that there is anything I can do to prevent this offficious behavior by Windiwsm but perhaps, I can persuade the administrator to implerment a change if there is a solution,

Does anyone know how this can be avoided?

#2 Post by **Flash** » Tue 04 Dec 2018, 02:40

Hmm. This probably won't be any help, but I recently bought a cheap "adventure" camera that wouldn't work with a micro SD card that I'd formatted FAT32 with Gparted. The camera wouldn't even see the card at all. Then I formatted the micro SD card FAT32 with Windows 10 and it worked in the camera but Puppy couldn't see it.

There is some difference between what Windows thinks the FAT32 standard is and what Gparted's developers think it is. They probably both think they're right.

What if you plugged a write-protected SD card into a USB adapter and plugged that into your library's computer? Would the computer crash?

#3 Post by **Makoto** » Tue 04 Dec 2018, 04:22

I think Windows defaults to running a quick (not deep) chkdsk/scandisk on a USB drive when you connect it to the system, these days (but I could be wrong). And maybe automatically 'optimizing' the drive for use with the system. Either one could be causing the issues.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure there's a way to bypass that, especially on a shared public system where the admins might not want you changing system settings. If it's not necessary for you to write anything to the drive, I'd recommend flipping the write-protect switch as well, if the drive has one. Or, just buy a cheap USB scratch drive for those occasions when you have to take files to the library computer, one you can just leave in the Windows-modified form.

bigpup · #4 Post by **bigpup** » Tue 04 Dec 2018, 16:02

I would also just get a USB flash drive and use it just for this purpose.

What format is the drive that does this?

Do you know if it is Windows 10 on the library computers?

Burn_IT · #5 Post by **Burn_IT** » Tue 04 Dec 2018, 16:21

I would be surprised if it was Windows itself doing this. It is far more likely to be something on the library's computer that they or the county have put there.

rockedge · #6 Post by **rockedge** » Tue 04 Dec 2018, 16:26

partition the USB drive into 2 parts
1. FAT32 as a small partition for GRUB4DOS and what ever windows 10 wants to think

2 the main partition as ext3 or ext4 for the Puppy Linux frugal install you will be booting into.

works in a similar situation for me

PS. I formatted the empty USB first as FAT32 with Win10
then using GParted resized and created the ext4 partition as the 2nd step. then created a directory in the ext4 and copied my Puppy Linux and save folder into that directory...then ran Grub4Dos and let it install the mbr in the FAT32 partition

then Windows 10 thinks all is good with the USB when in fact a Puppy is in the horse.

B.K. Johnson · #7 Post by **B.K. Johnson** » Tue 04 Dec 2018, 17:09

Flash wrote:

Hmm. This probably won't be any help, but I recently bought a cheap "adventure" camera that wouldn't work with a micro SD card that I'd formatted FAT32 with Gparted. The camera wouldn't even see the card at all. Then I formatted the micro SD card FAT32 with Windows 10 and it worked in the camera but Puppy couldn't see it.

No help,

but very interesting.

There is some difference between what Windows thinks the FAT32 standard is and what Gparted's developers think it is. They probably both think they're right.

Last week the library computer (Windows version unknown) couldn't open a SanDisk Cruzer 8Gb drive. This drive had the unnamed directory/folder. Their computer was able to access files on a SanDisk Cruzer 4Gb which doesn't have the null directory in the root. Both of these drives were originally factory formatted, so Gparted is not involved. Could the size have mattered? But I remember seeing the file arrangement changed after using the drive in a computer somewhere.

I saw the rearrangement happen recently on a Windows 7. I used puppy to move the files back to the root and delete the null named directory. I haven't noticed an adverse reaction yet when using puppy. Haven't used it in Windows since.

What if you plugged a write-protected SD card into a USB adapter and plugged that into your library's computer? Would the computer crash?

I don't have a SD card.

B.K. Johnson · #8 Post by **B.K. Johnson** » Tue 04 Dec 2018, 17:14

Makoto writes:

I think Windows defaults to running a quick (not deep) chkdsk/scandisk on a USB drive when you connect it to the system, these days (but I could be wrong). And maybe automatically 'optimizing' the drive for use with the system. Either one could be causing the issues.

Undoubtedly, Windows does the rearrangement in its own interest.

This is my drive, not Microsoft's.

It is the arrogance that whatever device that is used in their system is beholden to them, that irritates me. And it is done without notice

(rant off).

Unfortunately, I'm not sure there's a way to bypass that, especially on a shared public system where the admins might not want you changing system settings. If it's not necessary for you to write anything to the drive, I'd recommend flipping the write-protect switch as well, if the drive has one. Or, just buy a cheap USB scratch drive for those occasions when you have to take files to the library computer, one you can just leave in the Windows-modified form.

I know that a fix exists. I remember seeing it about a couple years ago. I gave it to the system admin, but he did not implement - laziness, not policy. In a public place like the library, where devices are plugged in all the time, it should be policy IMHO. But most users are content because they only use M$, at home or at the library . But for me, it is annoying when using my puppy.

None of my drives have a write-protect switch, so that suggestion is out. But I like the suggestion of a cheap scratch drive dedicated to use in Windows machines only. Thanks!

B.K. Johnson · #9 Post by **B.K. Johnson** » Tue 04 Dec 2018, 17:29

bigpup:

I would also just get a USB flash drive and use it just for this purpose.

Good idea.

What format is the drive that does this?

FAT32

Do you know if it is Windows 10 on the library computers?

I don't know the version, but I'm going there shortly and will find out if I remember to ask

.
[Edit @16:13]
It is a Windows 10.

B.K. Johnson · #10 Post by **B.K. Johnson** » Tue 04 Dec 2018, 17:32

Burn_IT
The thought of a virus either on their computer or the drive crossed my mind.

#11 Post by **Makoto** » Wed 05 Dec 2018, 07:00

B.K. Johnson wrote:Undoubtedly, Windows does the rearrangement in its own interest. This is my drive, not Microsoft's. It is the arrogance that whatever device that is used in their system is beholden to them, that irritates me. And it is done without notice (rant off).

Hey, Microsoft knows what's best.

There's probably still someone there who thinks "hiding file extensions for 'known' file types" is a good idea.

Burn_IT wrote:I would be surprised if it was Windows itself doing this. It is far more likely to be something on the library's computer that they or the county have put there.

Windows does attempt to do some 'housekeeping' (on a drive) when you insert a USB drive. I just don't know what that involves under more recent versions of Windows.

peterw · #12 Post by **peterw** » Wed 05 Dec 2018, 09:24

Interesting discussion. Since I very rarely use MS Windows then I have never seen this issue before. Googling it I see from https://www.howtogeek.com/282214/what-i ... delete-it/ that "On exFAT or FAT32-formatted drives, you can choose to delete the folder—but Windows will just recreate it in the future, since it needs it." And so I don't think that you can stop Windows doing what it does. It is nothing to do with gparted way of formatting the drive.

I sometimes use a Linux file system for Puppy on a USB drive with the addition of a small FAT32 partition for those occasions I need a file to be seen on a Windows system. Why not try that to see if the Linux partition remains OK, which I think it will.

rockedge · #13 Post by **rockedge** » Wed 05 Dec 2018, 13:20

peterw wrote:I sometimes use a Linux file system for Puppy on a USB drive with the addition of a small FAT32 partition for those occasions I need a file to be seen on a Windows system. Why not try that to see if the Linux partition remains OK, which I think it will.

exactly what I describe here -> http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 90#1012090

this method has worked for me in a similar scenario

B.K. Johnson · #14 Post by **B.K. Johnson** » Wed 05 Dec 2018, 13:43

peterw and rockedge

I sometimes use a Linux file system for Puppy on a USB drive with the addition of a small FAT32 partition for those occasions I need a file to be seen on a Windows system. Why not try that to see if the Linux partition remains OK, which I think it will.

partition the USB drive into 2 parts
1. FAT32 as a small partition for GRUB4DOS and what ever windows 10 wants to think

2 the main partition as ext3 or ext4 for the Puppy Linux frugal install you will be booting into.

Apologies guys for not commenting on your obviously sanguine solution. Just an oversight.

mikeslr · #15 Post by **mikeslr** » Wed 05 Dec 2018, 15:26

I agree with Rockedge. However, my wife just acquired a Windows 10. I'm only allowed to use it when she has a problem or needs something installed. Even though the USB-Keys I used to transfer files was formatted Fat32, her computer couldn't read them. I had to acquire a USB-stick (factory formatted Fat32) which could be read by both her computer and my Puppies.

I would assume that if I allowed her Windows 10 to format a USB-key it would also be readable by both.

Ananda98 · #16 Post by **Ananda98** » Wed 05 Dec 2018, 17:38

Well, maybe because Windows computer in your library has virus(es)?
In my country (Indonesia), there are so many viruses that make null folder in flash disk, and move any files in flash disk to it.

#17 Post by **Flash** » Wed 05 Dec 2018, 17:40

B.K. Johnson wrote:...Last week the library computer (Windows version unknown) couldn't open a SanDisk Cruzer 8Gb drive. This drive had the unnamed directory/folder. Their computer was able to access files on a SanDisk Cruzer 4Gb which doesn't have the null directory in the root. Both of these drives were originally factory formatted, so Gparted is not involved. Could the size have mattered? ...

Size does matter. Older digital cameras (and probably other older devices that use flash memory, if there are any) can't use newer large capacity flash memory cards. Sometimes a firmware upgrade will fix that.
Also, older SD card readers (SD-to-USB converters) won't work with newer SD cards above a certain size. I don't know if this is planned obsolescence or a boneheaded lack of forethought on the part of the designers.

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Seeking solution to Windows messing with flash drive

Seeking solution to Windows messing with flash drive

Windows and System Volume Information

Windows 10s Fat32 is different