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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
A Puppy Version kinda in the middle for older hardware
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Linux NOOB

Joined: 02 Mar 2018
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Wed 21 Nov 2018, 22:14    Post subject:  A Puppy Version kinda in the middle for older hardware  

First I used 4.3.1 on an HP OmniBook XE3 circa 2000/1 with a blazing fast PIII 800 and a whopping 128 megs of RAM. Live was a dead horse due to the amount of RAM. Setting up a swap of 300 MEGS and permanently mounting on the HHD solved this to perform better than the orig Win 2000 Pro it was sold new with. My next candidate after realizing the HP was too limited due to the crappy amount of supported RAM and a shot battery is an IBM ThinkPad around the Windows XP vintage. This IBM has an Intel 1500 processor and 1280 of RAM installed so it is perhaps something to work with BUT it has a 32 bit processor and an attempt to run Zorin 12.4 Lite 32 BIT gave the error CPU PAE is disabled so scratch that idea! 4.3.1 sings on this ThinkPad but has limitations due to being quite early. What newer versions are available but are not too new or heavy for this IBM? Also the CPU nag with Zorin might be a problem.
Now I might mention the 4.3.1 I had problems with the network and WIFI possibly just not knowing what to set up? Also even though XP isn't supported anymore I'm not quite ready to totally nuke the HHD until I find something that will kick the crap out of it for usability. I tried Win7 but drivers were a sad situation whereas 4.3.1 seems to be spot on.
This ThinkPad is a Model or type 1829 and if need be I can get a list of hardware on the XP device manager because the drive hasn't been erased.
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nosystemdthanks


Joined: 03 May 2018
Posts: 621

PostPosted: Wed 21 Nov 2018, 22:21    Post subject: Re: A Puppy Version kinda in the middle for older hardware  

well first things first, you should be able to boot with "forcepae" to take care of that problem.

second, 128 is a tiny amount of ram these days, try booting puppy with "textmode" or "text" (i think it was originally textmode in puppy, but lots of other changes have happened) and go from there?

youll probably want a swap partition or a swap file to run puppy on that. this page still claims puppy can run on half the ram you have: https://www.puppylinux.org/wikka/MinimumSystemRequirements

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Linux NOOB

Joined: 02 Mar 2018
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Wed 21 Nov 2018, 22:37    Post subject:  

Actually the boot etc. on the HP was okay except slow to install other than that ran good but just limited with 128 megs and possibly only 256 supported.

The IBM on the other hand has WIFI, boots on USB so PLop wasn't required to try Pup so it's something to work with. I think it is a 04/04 vintage and it used to be used at our local health district and hospital but was retired and as a result it came with a docking station and good battery with a staggering price of $10 at the local charity thrift shop. They tinkered with it and locked up the BIOS with a password by mistake trying how to get around the XP password so I got it for $10 knowing if I removed the CMOS bat this would be solved and reinstalled XP. Nope the Force boot didn't work on Zorin. Also due to the age of the 4.3.1 updates etc. are prob a thing of the past? Also due to the 32 bit I'm limited on choices as well except for
http://releases.ubuntu.com/16.04/
Ubuntu 16.04.5 LTS (Xenial Xerus)
but again just downloaded this as it is both 32/64 bit and still supported.

Something newer and fancier than good old 4.3.1, 32 bit, and capable of being updated like all the new 64 bit flavors. Otherwise other than not having a network connection 4.3.1 works great on the ThinkPad
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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 1559

PostPosted: Wed 21 Nov 2018, 23:23    Post subject:  

If 4-series puppies work well for you then you migth want to five AnitaOS a try:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/anitaos/

It supports Palemoon 27.8.3
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 4860
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Thu 22 Nov 2018, 08:47    Post subject:  

@ Linux NOOB:-

The reference to an 'Intel 1500' processor is a little vague. Really need slightly more detailed info.

Any chance you could run

Code:
cat /proc/cpuinfo


.....in the terminal, and post the output, please?

----------------------------------------------

There's probably several Pups that would do what you want, but information is like gold dust in this game.....priceless (and means we can tailor advice a bit more accurately, too). If you've got a no-PAE processor (sounds like a Pentium M to me; probably the 'Banias' variant - PAE is in fact there, but is not 'enabled' for some weird reason only known to Intel, and usually causes havoc with Linux distros, which need the PAE flag set in the kernel):-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_M#Banias

..... then the alternatives could be:-

a) To try and 'enable' PAE, in which case I'd recommend trying Precise 5.7.1:-

http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/precise-5.7.1/

Precise-retro comes with a whole load of additional drivers for older networking gear. Or:-

b) To try a no-PAE Puppy, such as Slacko 5.7/570.

http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/puppy-slacko-5.7/

You've got sufficient RAM for both of 'em, and these two are rock-solid & well-supported. Just my two-penn'orth, FWIW.

--------------------------------------------------

(Your 'nag' about PAE with Zorin (which is based on Ubuntu) could be due to the fact that the 'forcepae' argument in recent Ubuntu releases apparently now needs to be added twice on the installer's 'kernel line'.....instead of only once, which was formerly the case.

Linked from the Wikipedia article:-

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PAE )


Mike. Wink

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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 12022
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Thu 22 Nov 2018, 11:08    Post subject:  

Quote:
IBM has an Intel 1500 processor and 1280 of RAM

If you could tell us exactly what Intel processor?

I would try Xenialpup 7.5
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/puppy-xenial/32/xenialpup-7.5-uefi.iso
Just do not try to run too many programs at the same time.
But 1GB of memory should still be fine.

It is the 32bit version of Xenialpup not PAE.
But I do not know why Zorin complains about PAE.
PAE only lets more than 4GB of memory to be accessed.
You only have 1GB.

Xenialpup should have everything needed for WIFI.

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YaPI(any iso installer) http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=107601
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Linux NOOB

Joined: 02 Mar 2018
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Thu 22 Nov 2018, 11:45    Post subject:  

Here are the specs and the Intel CPU is classified as a Centerion M
https://www.cnet.com/products/ibm-thinkpad-r50-1829-15-pentium-m-win-xp-pro-512-mb-ram-40-gb-hdd-series/specs/
The PAE disabled print is AFTER I boot the flash drive only seeing the keyboard and man with arms spread out logo at the bottom of screen. Then the PAE nag pops up with no options except start over with something else. No PAE nag on both the HP and IBM with 4.3.1.
Both are 32 bit processors compared to the enemic 455 Atom bomb 1.66 ghz that is 64 bit in my Acer Aspire One 533 circa 2009/10. I tried Ubuntu 18.04 live on it last night on USB and a bit slow but this is running in 2 gb of RAM now take the HP running 4.3.1 live was an exercise of futility in 128
Megs but installed on the HHD with 300 meg swap made it perform like a very usable PC faster than Win 2000 on that PIII 800 with 128 megs. This is one reason why I don't believe in live and running in RAM on a stick!! What is the HHD for?
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Linux NOOB

Joined: 02 Mar 2018
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Thu 22 Nov 2018, 12:37    Post subject:  

And my Acer Aspire One 533 with the single core could possibly be a so called dual as I believe it has Hyperthreading capabilities and shows up as two. Otherwise the IBM appears to be not a slouch prob because of 1280 megs of Ram and a processor a bit bigger. The HP in its day appears to be a very fine quality laptop but that 128 megs sucks and from what I gathered supports only a pair of 128's. I ordered a pair of 256 and a 512 at a very low price practically nothing and placing them in is very temperamental but if it boots recognizes all of it but it's glitchy. If it is recognized perhaps it is shoddy ram as I have received this from across the pond before. What are RAM capacities? Well here is a good example! I have a Gigabyte M68MT-S2 Rev 1.3 AM3 and Gig swears up and down it is an 8 GB max board. Guess what? It has a pair of 8GB Kingston Hyperx Fury 1600 RAM in it running stable and at the proper frequency and Win7/64 Pro and Ubuntu 18.04 /64 bit recognize 16 GB of Ram while running stable. Just like this HP they say 256 max but a 128 with a 512 at the same time are recognized by bios. One stick works one doesn't which leads me to suspect defective or poor quality RAM. And my Acer 2 is supposedly the max but I would have to try 4 to see what it does. A horrible job just for RAM not for the faint hearted! A little hatch at the bottom would make toooooo much sense! Remove the keyboard, remove six screws to remove a small panel on the bottom.
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Linux NOOB

Joined: 02 Mar 2018
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Thu 22 Nov 2018, 13:39    Post subject:  

s243a there is an ISO that is dated 2017 hopefully this is the one and I'm downloading it now. I will try the other suggestions as well.
I had Ubuntu 18.04 on my Acer Aspire One 533 with the N455 Atom @1.66 ghz before i partitioned the SSD into 3 partitions Win7, Win10, and the third for a future Linux and seems to me the 64 bit 18.04 wasnt all that bad compared to 7 starter edition and better than 10 with all of the crap running needlessly!! At least this Atom Bomb is 64 increasing my options for software. Because I don't want to possibly screw up my already installed OS's and don't have an external USB HHD I think I will use a pair of USB thumb drives, one for the installation OS and one to use as a hard drive with a swap for a more accurate test!! Just for laughs I will try the original 4.3.1 on the Acer but I suspect will be a crash and burn due to drivers but perhaps not?? Seems to me it is only slightly older than the Aspire which is 209/10 vintage so perhaps most drivers will be available? WIFI might be the issue? Now these older versions? What would happen if I opened a terminal and typed "sudo apt update"? Any hope for updating these at all? Bare with me as my CLI commands are quite limited.
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8Geee


Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 1879
Location: N.E. USA

PostPosted: Thu 22 Nov 2018, 14:14    Post subject:  

My condolences on the Aspire One 533 model... the SD card-reader cannot read a SDHC card at all. Must use SD 2Gb or less. If you have an old digi-camera, you might have one kicking around somewhere. USB is OK up to 32Gb.

For this computer, you might try AtomicPup-XIX.

Regards
8Geee

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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 12022
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Thu 22 Nov 2018, 14:25    Post subject:  

I am now confused about what computer you want a newer Puppy for.
Make the topic about only one specific computer and talk about nothing but that computer.
Please!

If you want to talk about a different computer.
Make a new topic about it and only it.

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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3102
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Thu 22 Nov 2018, 14:31    Post subject: forcepae on menu.lst  

Hi Linux NOOB,

Noobs are allowed some leeway. But for future reference, please start a different thread for each problem: you actually have two computer --two problems. It makes it easier to keep track of how to help you and for us to find relevant posts among the 1,000,000 +/- already on this Forum so that we don't have to keep typing the same thing whenever someone else asks.

For example, just to be sure you understand what we mean by "adding forcepae" to your boot argument, see this post: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=999358#999358. Rockedge's post shows how to add forcepae to a stanza on the menu.lst created when grub4dos is the bootloader. Ask here --as it pertains to both your computers-- if you need instructions on how to add it when using some other bootloader or booting from a CD/DVD.

Regarding your Thinkpad, it is pretty much like my T42. By including the 'forcepae' argument it can boot any 32-bit Puppy except IIRC upupbb (based on Ubuntu Bionic Beaver). Like Mike Walsh, I'd recommend a Precise or Slacko since, even with your 1.5 Gbs of RAM, these will use fewer resources (RAM and CPU) and provide snappier performance than Xenialpup and Tahrpup.

I would, however, recommend either Sailor Enceladus's Slacko 5.7,1, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=976794#976794 or darry19662018's "barebones" verison, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=998242#998242 or 8Geee's AtomicPup, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=943460#943460 These have the latest security fixes, but read the entire threads. They can use any application that was built for Slacko 5.7. Consequently, 'fleshed out', there's not very much you can't do running them. Mike Walsh and I consider the Slacko 5.7's our "Work-horses" -- the Puppy you boot into if you just want to get things done.

Despite its 1.5 Gbs or RAM, I recommend adding a 2 Gb Swapfile or Partition.

Regarding the OmniBook -- I'm guessing. That said, with only 128 Mbs of RAM, this is one of the few occasions when I think a Full Install is required. And I'd add a 500 Mb Swapfile or Partition. (Twice RAM is 'common knowledge' without any basis in fact). If you're interested in accessing the Web, I don't think you can do better than the 4.31 which can run watchdog's special build of palemoon: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=948200#948200. But if you just want to use the Omnibook for anything other than accessing the Web, I'd suggest trying John Bile's LegacyOS: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=966748#966748. Previous versions were named "Teenpup". For further info see, https://puppylinux.org/wikka/TeenPup
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Linux NOOB

Joined: 02 Mar 2018
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Thu 22 Nov 2018, 16:36    Post subject:  

Sorry for the mixup as I have too many little toys to test Puppy on Embarassed !

I placed the HP in mothballs Arrow ,

am installing Ubuntu 18.04 totally on a 64gb thumbdrive to test on Acer Aspire One (turned out to be a snail process and is prob a poor test!) Ubuntu 18.04 is put on hold for testing Puppy

and using Rufus created a bootable USB thumb drive for the newer 2017 4.3.1 for the IBM.

Acer is slowly booting up so this is a poor test being on a usb thumb drive on the Acer

Anyway I'm now using the IBM ThinkPad with the 2017 version of 4.3.1 and it fliiiiiiiiies fast, detects the WIFI without a hitch, everything seems to run smoothly, fast and stable BUT the internet browser on the task bar at the bottom refuses to open so currently I have no internet browser. Otherwise it looks fantastic! At first I thought I used the oldest version as the boot loader looks the same but was greeted with a Bonsai Plant on the desktop. It detected all of my WIFI routers so I know my WIFI card is set up and my ethernet is configured properly.

Now I will have to download an internet browser and transfer it with a thumb drive so I have something and meanwhile the Acer booted on the drive and went through the motions of starting just to go to a black screen so for now I will forget about 18.0.4 on that puter and test the 4.3.1 on the Acer to see what it does. If the IBM flies that fast the newer Acer should love it as well. The full version of Ubuntu is perhaps a bit too heavy but thats for another day.

Off to the Acer with 4.3.1 2017 version after discovering how well it does on the IBM and if it works this good Acer should do better if drivers are not an issue.
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Linux NOOB

Joined: 02 Mar 2018
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Thu 22 Nov 2018, 16:52    Post subject:  

Acer was very comparable to the IBM in speed and performance with the same deficiencies. Now I'm going over to the downloads and see how they do on the latest and greatest since all WIFI cards were detected and properly set up "right out of the box" The only difference between the two is the screen is half the size on the netbook. The IBM is a higher end laptop as well.
Since the latest Ubuntu is a bit heavy and only 32 bit is supported on the IBM I will see what and how things work before going back to 4.3.1
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ITSMERSH

Joined: 02 May 2018
Posts: 911

PostPosted: Thu 22 Nov 2018, 18:37    Post subject:  

I just didn't read the whole topic, so I don't know if anyone mentioned it.

Regarding the amount of RAM, there's a boot option for Puppy pfix=nocopy. This avoids the main .sfs being tried to load into RAM, so even newer Puppies like Tahr or Xenial should boot then into the graphical desktop.

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