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Fatdog64-800 Alpha [16 Nov 2018]
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Billtoo


Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 3639
Location: Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Sat 17 Nov 2018, 02:17    Post subject: Fatdog64-800 Alpha [16 Nov 2018]  

I moved my SSD install to another computer, eth0 became eth1 so I
configured the network monitor in the tray to use eth1.
Working well, boots in about 15 seconds.
Have to call up the system boot menu and choose the SSD as the boot
device.
----------------------------------
EDIT:
I added Gkrellm system monitor.
----------------------------------
EDIT2:
Nexuiz242 works too, Smile
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Last edited by Billtoo on Sat 17 Nov 2018, 14:56; edited 2 times in total
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 5431
Location: GB

PostPosted: Sat 17 Nov 2018, 05:17    Post subject:  

Quote:
@Sage no need to set up wifi from Control Panel. You can click the wpa_gui icon in the tray and set up wifi and wired from there.

Appreciate your assistance, step, but, sadly, not! Most distros allow a simple wifi setup from a panel icon; most of them work (but there are a few that don't from developers that really ought to know better!). Unfortunately, I find the FD icon setup not only arcane but wouldn't work (at least, without some inside knowledge and guidance). Control Panel setup is indeed arcane, sufficient to baffle any neophyte. Really cannot think why it's necessary to get users to jump through all those hoops when all that's required is to select wifi and insert a p/w once a scan (which could've been automatic, anyway) has found your (instantly recognised) portal ready to click 'connect'. Afraid BK/Douglas got that one correct with their ancient SNS offering. Only other issues are likely to be obscure wifi units for which their driver is not loaded/recognised (BK/A.N.O. sent me detect/load/activate instructions for one of those around a decade ago, and which I've now lost!).
As a mere user, I must advocate for the great unwashed without your depth of cognisance!
Otherwise, FD is fantastic.
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LateAdopter

Joined: 27 May 2011
Posts: 306
Location: Reading UK

PostPosted: Sat 17 Nov 2018, 06:04    Post subject:  

Ha Ha at last I have a bug

After boot up the numlock light is ON but numlock is OFF. I have gb standard english keyboard.

With fd710 the light is on in the boot menu and goes OFF ON OFF during boot.

With fd8 the light misses the last OFF

The first press of the numlock key turns numlock ON and the light stays ON, the second press turns numlock OFF and the light OFF.
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Acodin

Joined: 15 Nov 2018
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sat 17 Nov 2018, 07:20    Post subject:  

SFR wrote:

Did you boot with 4G of RAM? And it worked this time, so you could use 'bugreport' tool?
As I understood, it produces hang at boot?

However, Acodin's issue seems to have something to do with RAM - booting sequence hangs at "Booting the kernel" line, but only with 3/4G of RAM (mixed modules).

In my case (HP) it was black screen for ~1 minute right before reaching the desktop, so much more later.


Everytime when I try to boot with 4G of RAM it does't work. Then I disconnecting laptop from power supply and battery if I don't forget that and removing one 2G module. With 2G of RAM fatdog is booting to desktop where i using bugreport.sh .

I don't understand what it has to graphics.

It hangs on default kernel of fatdog 721 same as on version 800, but on kernel 4.7.1 it produces bootloop, so it's not long loading i think.

I will try with others RAM dices. Do you know what else I could try?
Sorry for my crappy engslish.
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artsown

Joined: 12 Sep 2012
Posts: 297

PostPosted: Sat 17 Nov 2018, 07:32    Post subject:  

Sage spoke of being a advocate for the "great unwashed", and I find
myself having the same sentiment. The president of a company I once
worked for (as a engineer) liked to speak of engineering triumphs often
being marketing disasters. That's precisely the way I view Fatdog64. The
talented team of experts developing and supporting it don't seem to
have a interest in creating a marketable (easily useable) product.

For example, about two years ago, I asked about the apparent lack
of a time sync app. No problem, I was told. Simply go to Control Panel -
System - Manage Servers and Services. Scroll down and click on either
ntpd-boot or ntpd-client option and enable one of them. This obscure
thing is unfortunately still with us in 800 alpha.

Art
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quirkian2new

Joined: 06 Oct 2015
Posts: 123
Location: on the inter-planet train

PostPosted: Sat 17 Nov 2018, 08:02    Post subject:
Subject description: number lock & light
 

posting from 800a now, i've the same numberlock issue as LateAdopter .

Actually this issue also exist in FD721, but i've forgotten to report it for one reason or another. Thanks
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rufwoof

Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 2714

PostPosted: Sat 17 Nov 2018, 08:26    Post subject:  

artsown wrote:
For example, about two years ago, I asked about the apparent lack
of a time sync app. No problem, I was told. Simply go to Control Panel -
System - Manage Servers and Services. Scroll down and click on either
ntpd-boot or ntpd-client option and enable one of them. This obscure
thing is unfortunately still with us in 800 alpha

To me, that sounds a entirely obvious choice for easy access to setting up ntpd.

Quote:
The talented team of experts developing and supporting it don't seem to
have a interest in creating a marketable (easily useable) product.

Would be worth you having a read through the efforts that the FatDog team go through in order to share things with the community ... http://www.lightofdawn.org/blog/?viewDetailed=00192

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SFR


Joined: 26 Oct 2011
Posts: 1685

PostPosted: Sat 17 Nov 2018, 08:39    Post subject:  

p310don wrote:
Then I booted with initrd-nano. No save file, but gets to a login prompt for bulldog linux as pictured...

Where are FD system files (vmlinuz, initrd & initrd-nano) located and how your bootloader config looks like?
This is the default for initrd-nano from syslinux.cfg on the ISO:
Code:
linux vmlinuz
initrd initrd-nano
append rootfstype=ramfs mergeinitrd1=local:/initrd waitdev=3

If you've installed FD using the installer, the last line should be automatically modified to point to the location of initrd.
But otherwise you need to correct it manually.

http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/web/faqs/huge-initrd.html
___________

LateAdopter wrote:
The first press of the numlock key turns numlock ON and the light stays ON, the second press turns numlock OFF and the light OFF.

quirkian2new wrote:
posting from 800a now, i've the same numberlock issue as LateAdopter .

Actually this issue also exist in FD721, but i've forgotten to report it for one reason or another. Thanks

Hmm, there's no NumLock led on my current keyboard, so can't really test it.
Anyway, perhaps Control Panel -> Desktop -> Manage desktop startup programs -> System startup programs and either numlock-off or numlock-on would make it right..?
___________

Acodin wrote:
Everytime when I try to boot with 4G of RAM it does't work. Then I disconnecting laptop from power supply and battery if I don't forget that and removing one 2G module. With 2G of RAM fatdog is booting to desktop where i using bugreport.sh .

Well, if you boot with 2G RAM and everything works fine, there's nothing to debug...
The thing is to boot with 4G RAM (+ loglevel=7 option) and see if there's anything helpful in kernel's output before it hangs.

Acodin wrote:
I don't understand what it has to graphics.

That's another issue revealed by your dmesg's output.
If you're experiencing a substantial delay (black screen) before getting to desktop, adding video=SVIDEO-1:d to your bootloader may fix it.

Acodin wrote:
I will try with others RAM dices. Do you know what else I could try?

Yep, the best course of action would be to exclude the possibility of incompatibile RAM modules before proceeding any further, because at the moment this seems to be most obvious culprit.
You could also try, if you haven't already, to boot another distro(s) (Slax, Porteus, Slitaz, etc.) with 4G of RAM and see if the problem persists.

Greetings!

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step

Joined: 04 May 2012
Posts: 1120

PostPosted: Sat 17 Nov 2018, 09:00    Post subject:  

@LateAdopter @quirkian2new, I can reproduce the num-lock bug. You have already found and given us a work-around. We'll fix it for final release. Thanks.
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 2990

PostPosted: Sat 17 Nov 2018, 09:20    Post subject:  

Maybe I get something wrong but the whole “spot/browser/download location” thing may need a bit of work.
FD suggest to move downloads out of $HOME/spot, to /aufs/devsave which makes a lot of sense if you use a savefile and boot from a fat/vfat medium (is really of little value in an ext2-4/savefolder setting). However fat/vfat does not support linux permissions and gets the permissions of the mount point with in the /aufs/devsave case is root:users and thus can not be used by spot.
If indeed this is the case then either moving downloads should not be suggested when /aufs/devsave is not a “permissable” partition or spot should be able to somehow access the said location.

Coming to the infamous boot time from slow/old media, I can see the benefits of the humongous initrd in some very specific cases. However for most of the installation settings is just an annoyance. So what about going the other way around,ie use the small initrd/fd64.sfa as default and only instal a humongous initrd in recommended case. The fd installer should be doing a bit more work but may take away a bad first impression (this would be for fd900 of course)

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step

Joined: 04 May 2012
Posts: 1120

PostPosted: Sat 17 Nov 2018, 09:36    Post subject:  

Fatdog64 offers a lot of general (and sometimes specialized) functions via its Control Panel. My major gripe with the control panel was its slow start. But in Fatdog64-800 control panel is noticeably faster (thanks James), to the point that I've started to use it. I don't particularly like it (I prefer menus to icon grids) but I recognize that it offers a central access point to the system tasks and utilities that matter the most. Each new release adds new control panel applets. Growth could be organized differently, by changing some categories (tabs) and so on, but we don't have time for a complete overhaul.

Network setup in Fatdog64 has always been somewhat different, in that it's based on wpa_gui rather than SNM, freesbie, etc. We think that wpa_gui covers the needs of the vast majority of users, those who have a single wifi adapter and possibly a single wired network card on their PC. More complicated network connections need personalized setups.

There's also a Network setup applet in the control panel. Why the apparent duplication? Because it isn't. That applet offers a unique advantage:- it can configure the network without the need to start the desktop GUI (pfix=nox boot loader parameter).

But how can one start a control panel applet if the control panel isn't running because the desktop GUI (Xorg) hasn't started? From the shell prompt: type "network-setup.sh" (without quotes) and hit the enter key (this works also while Xorg is running). As a useful and general trick, when you are at the shell prompt, you can hit the Tab key twice to complete the current word automatically. So if "network-setup.sh" is hard to remember but you can remember "network", type "network" and hit Tab twice to see all possible completions.

Other control panel applet command names don't start with "network". Most of them share the same prefix. If you like to venture, guess which one?

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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 5431
Location: GB

PostPosted: Sat 17 Nov 2018, 09:52    Post subject:  

Quote:
But how can one start a control panel applet if the control panel isn't running ....From the shell prompt: type "network-setup.sh" (without quotes) and hit the enter key (this works also while Xorg is running). As a useful and general trick, when you are at the shell prompt, you can hit the Tab key twice to complete the current word automatically. So if "network-setup.sh" is hard to remember but you can remember "network", type "network" and hit Tab twice to see all possible completions.

That is very helpful advice. Frankly, despite my lack of SW talent, if it has to be the CLI, then I'd do that. But surely it doesn't have to be that way? SNS is a doddle, it always works, it passes the KISS test. If the wpa_ thing is destined to stay, then I'd recommend an instant pop-up window of helpful advice, even if it is the only such 'help window' because everybody wants -online- first, fast and bother-free. NIH isn't acceptable, prefer the MeToo - the BK/Doug thing comes free gratis and is well proven over many years.
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Acodin

Joined: 15 Nov 2018
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sat 17 Nov 2018, 10:24    Post subject:  

SFR wrote:
If you're experiencing a substantial delay (black screen) before getting to desktop, adding video=SVIDEO-1:d to your bootloader may fix it.


Good to know; I have this delay ^^


@edit:

I don't know how to save log from loglevel=7 if i don't reaching a desktop, but i can made a photos or something. Now I know little bit more - on 4G of ram it hangs at:

Code:
Trying to unpack rootfs image as initramfs...
rootfs image is not initramfs (no cpio magic); looks like an initrd
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 3186
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Sat 17 Nov 2018, 11:53    Post subject:  

mavrothal wrote:
Maybe I get something wrong but the whole “spot/browser/download location” thing may need a bit of work.
FD suggest to move downloads out of $HOME/spot, to /aufs/devsave which makes a lot of sense if you use a savefile and boot from a fat/vfat medium (is really of little value in an ext2-4/savefolder setting). However fat/vfat does not support linux permissions and gets the permissions of the mount point with in the /aufs/devsave case is root:users and thus can not be used by spot.
If indeed this is the case then either moving downloads should not be suggested when /aufs/devsave is not a “permissable” partition or spot should be able to somehow access the said location.
Thanks mavrothal. This warrants investigation and further action.

Quote:
Coming to the infamous boot time from slow/old media, I can see the benefits of the humongous initrd in some very specific cases. However for most of the installation settings is just an annoyance. So what about going the other way around,ie use the small initrd/fd64.sfa as default and only instal a humongous initrd in recommended case. The fd installer should be doing a bit more work but may take away a bad first impression (this would be for fd900 of course)
The thing is, when you go this way, there is another set of problems waiting, e.g. what p310don posted. The grass is not greener on the other side, unfortunately. We're just exchanging one problem with another.

Acodin wrote:
Trying to unpack rootfs image as initramfs...
rootfs image is not initramfs (no cpio magic); looks like an initrd

a) What's your bootloader?
b) Did you try SFR's suggestions to boot with other OS?

@Sage
Thank you for your feedback.

Wpa gui stays, because:
a) it works (and works very well once you've learned how to use it)
b) we don't have energy to maintain anything else.

It is indeed different from any other network managers, but that's why we have FAQ entry that provides step-by-step guide on how to use it - this FAQ entry is included both in Fatdog ISO and online (searchable by google).

Let me explain (b):
1) initial effort to convert it to make them work with Fatdog (Fatdog is similar to has enough difference from standard Puppies that unless the author has designed for Fatdog in mind, it probably won't work straight away).
2) the __on-going__ effort to maintain them as other parts of the network stack change from time to time.

Now all is not lost. Fatdog has mechanism to support multiple network managers - as step says, we have two already (wpa gui and network-setup.sh). It's easy to add 3rd, 4th, 5th ones. In fact, once upon a time I made peasywifi as the network manager (see http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=949465#949465). The mechanism is easy. But someone else needs to roll up their sleeves. Anyone who's interested to port and package SNS, Frisbee, or anything else can PM me and I'll let you know how to do it. But then they will need to be prepared to __maintain__ too (point 2), not only point 1.

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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 5431
Location: GB

PostPosted: Sat 17 Nov 2018, 12:56    Post subject:  

Thanks a bunch, jb. Would assist if I could! Will look for your FAQ. Guess it would help if the FAQ just popped-up on the opening screen, then? Probably contains lots of other goodies I don't know about, too?!
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