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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
grub4DOS
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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Dave_Kimble

Joined: 06 Oct 2018
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sat 06 Oct 2018, 04:15    Post subject:  grub4DOS
Subject description: grub4DOS produces non-executable something
 

I used to use Puppy (5.2.5/5.2.8/5.7.1) only to untangle my multi-boot menus with grub4dos, but Recently I have come to try and get xenial-pup 7.5 to work as a proper desktop, and have got my boot menus in a mess again, and I think grub4DOS is responsible.

My configuration is a laptop with 60 GB SSD and 16 GB USB-drive. I couldn't get the installation on the USB-drive to work, and anyway it was far too slow, so now we are using grub4dos to put a boot menu on sda. It finds Lubuntu_18.04 on sda1, and xenial-pup64 7.5 on sdb1, saved OK to sda. When I reboot and choose Lubuntu, it produces a screen with a "wee" dialog(?) specifically a "wee 13>" prompt, but has complained about something being non-executable.

Sorry that is so vague, but I've not come across wee before. I haven't a clue what is the matter.

I should mention that I can't install grub2 and the version of grub4dos is 0.4.4 . It all seems to be a bit ricketty in the installation department.

I seriously need to find out how to disengage the Touchpad permanently. xinput doesn't see it like Lubuntu does.

I like lxpanel and have one (on the LEFT). How can I make the old panel go away?
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11125
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sat 06 Oct 2018, 04:36    Post subject:  

First make sure you are trying to use the latest version of Grub4dos Config to setup the boot loader.
Just released a new version with some bug fixes.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=51697
See if that helps.

In Xenialpup 7.5
Run Quickpet>Xenialpup Updates to make sure you have anything it provides.

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I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 3464
Location: holland

PostPosted: Sat 06 Oct 2018, 07:19    Post subject:  

Dave_Kimble wrote:
When I reboot and choose Lubuntu, it produces a screen with a "wee" dialog(?) specifically a "wee 13>" prompt, but has complained about something being non-executable.

The cause could be how the partition is formatted.
See here (great info by jd7654)
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=111376

Fred

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mostly_lurking

Joined: 25 Jun 2014
Posts: 272

PostPosted: Sat 06 Oct 2018, 11:16    Post subject:  

Dave_Kimble wrote:
I like lxpanel and have one (on the LEFT). How can I make the old panel go away?

Are you talking about the taskbar that comes with the JWM window manager? In that case, you have two options: you can enable the "autohide" feature to make it show up only when you move the mouse onto it, or you can delete it altogether. For the first option, go to Menu > Desktop > JWMDesk Manager, and set the autohide option on the "Tray" tab to 'standard'. If you want to get rid of the tray completely, open /root/.jwmrc-tray in a text editor and remove the <Tray>...</Tray> part, so that only the <JWM></JWM> one remains. In ROX Filer, you can show that hidden .jwmrc-tray file by clicking the "eye" icon. Then restart JWM (Menu > Exit > Restart window manager; JWM's menu is still available by right-clicking the desktop. Or type jwm -restart into a terminal).
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Dave_Kimble

Joined: 06 Oct 2018
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sun 07 Oct 2018, 03:08    Post subject:  

Thanks for all the assistance. The first linked post looked exactly like it, so I confidently updated all the apps, and there was an update for grub4dos. I ran it again and then rebooted and ... the same.

I've tried to fix this with:
Puppy 5.2.7
Puppy 5.2.8
Puppy 5.7.1
Knoppix 7.2
Gparted live
Ubuntu 16.04 live
System Rescue CD (new)
and they all failed - something wrong with unionfs, but it didn't say what, or how to fix it. Only solution is to start again from scratch.

Thank you Xenial-Pup 7.5 for completely stuffing up my Lubuntu OS - "it's safe enough to run as root!" Nobody tested it, I expect.

So I downloaded Ubuntu Server 18.04, burned it and installed it, updated it, installed LXDE, installed my apps and servers, and I'm now tweaking the apps.
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jafadmin

Joined: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 853

PostPosted: Sun 07 Oct 2018, 13:12    Post subject:  

I wonder it this is that ext4 64bit problem, again .. Confused
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11125
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sun 07 Oct 2018, 13:41    Post subject:  

It seems it could be the problem.
Grub4DOS Error 13, wee 13> due to 64-bit Ext4
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=111376

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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ITSMERSH


Joined: 02 May 2018
Posts: 352

PostPosted: Sun 07 Oct 2018, 17:29    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
It seems it could be the problem.
Grub4DOS Error 13, wee 13> due to 64-bit Ext4
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=111376

So, definitely NOT Xenial Puppy!? Very Happy

I'm using ext4 only inside the .sfs modules (as it is by default).

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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2684
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Sun 07 Oct 2018, 20:53    Post subject: Grub4dos Linux Ext4 "64-bit" work-arounds  

Active development of grub4dos by its creator stopped in about 2012, perhaps as a consequence of the major Linux distro having chosen Grub2 as their default bootloader. Anyone familiar with both is aware that Grub2 has some advantages, such as the ability to write to drives/partitions which were formatted with the "64-bit" option. For Puppies, Grub2 has the major disadvantage that it does not AUTOMATICALLY recognize any Puppy installation as an operating system.

Last year, two different "wee" problems surfaced using grub4dos. Shinobar's recent update addressed one having to do with re-installing a "Full" install. It apparently didn't address the other which is that grub4dos can not accurately write to a drive/partition which was formatted with the "64-bit" option.

As far as I know, only Linux Ext4 can be formatted with that option. In theory the option will allow management of partitions greater than 16 Terabytes in size. In order to format a partition with that option, the formatting program must be compiled with utilities not present in Puppies. So while Puppies' gparted can format partitions as Linux Ext4, those partitions will only be "32-bit" partitions with a maximum size of 16 Terabytes.

Recently, there have been posts questioning the reliability of partitions greater than 16 Terabytes which have been formatted with the '64-bit' option. Debian, Ubuntu and perhaps other major distros (not Redhat) do include the tools, and when you format a partition under such distros and choose the Linux Ext4 formatting option --or on installation to a drive choose not to change the default Linux Ext4 option-- the partitions so formatted will be Linux Ext4 with the 64-bit option. [Don't hold your breath waiting for posts on the debian/ubuntu forums regarding any problems about Linux Ext4. How many Linux users do you think actually have drives in excess of 16 Terabytes?]

Puppies, and most of the applications which run under them, can read and write to partitions formatted as Linux Ext4 with the 64 bit option. But grub4dos can't do so accurately. Hence, the generation of the unsolved 'wee' problem.

There are 3, perhaps 4 or 5, work-arounds.

(1) Use Grub2 as bootloader. Since it does not automatically recognize Puppies as an operating system, you will have to manually edit /etc/default/grub file to include listings for Puppies and then run the sudo update-grub command. [Any command usable in grub4dos' menu.lst can be used under Grub2. In manually writing a listing under Grub2 the major difference will be that the line under grub4dos which begins with the term "kernel" will begin with the term "linux" under Grub2].

(2) Format partition(s)* as Linux Ext4 using Puppy's gparted. Then install your major distro to such partition(s) BUT do not permit it to reformat the partition(s) it will use.

(3) Re-install Ubuntu/LinuxMint/Whatever, but select Linux Ext3 for the formatting of the partitions*, or at least that partition* on which grub2 will be located.

Perhaps (4) Place Puppies --or at least grub4dos-- on a separate, NOT Linux Ext4 with 64-bit option partition, and customize grub2 to chainload grub4dos. I have not tested this possibility nor the italicized part of (3). I know from experience that otherwise the previous three work.

WHATEVER YOU DO, DO NOT ALLOW YOUR MAJOR DISTRO TO PLACE PARTITIONS UNDER LVM (logical volume management). Why anyone thought it was logical to combine multiple drives into one big mess is beyond me. Puppies can't use any drive so formatted.

* From experience, when installing a major Linux distro, you have the option to choose "custom install". During a "custom" install, you can elect to place everything in one partition, or divide the operating system into several partitions. If I recall correctly, you have no choice regarding where its boot loader will be located, nor an option not to install a bootloader. The bootloader will always be installed to I think / [=root] partition of the distro being installed.

(5) Also untested is the possibility of using Puppies gparted to Linux Ext4 format a major distros' partition on which its bootloader will be located, but allowing that distro to reformat any other partitions it will use.
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Dave_Kimble

Joined: 06 Oct 2018
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sun 07 Oct 2018, 23:09    Post subject:  

ITSMERSH wrote:
bigpup wrote:
It seems it could be the problem.
Grub4DOS Error 13, wee 13> due to 64-bit Ext4
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=111376

So, definitely NOT Xenial Puppy!? Very Happy

I'm using ext4 only inside the .sfs modules (as it is by default).


Well, it came in a package call "Xenial-Pup64_7.5" and it only took Menu > System > Grub4DOS > to totally brick my drive and waste 48 hours of my life trying to recover things.
It would be better to just get rid of it.

Grub2 wasn't installed, and wouldn't install lots of times. When I finally got it and ran "update-grub", it complained about something - the error messages are absolutely useless.
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jafadmin

Joined: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 853

PostPosted: Sun 07 Oct 2018, 23:22    Post subject:  

@mikeslr

A nice solution that I use a lot is to format a small USB Flash drive to ext2 and just use it as a Grub4DOS boot thumb. Works pretty well for dual-booting.

I can have a main (Ubuntu, or whatever) install on the HD that usually uses Grub2, but I the Grub4DOS thumbdrive to boot the machine when I want to boot the puppies on the same HD.

This makes the main distro isolated from my puppies, and Grub2 updates, etc have no effect on the thumb drive.

I'll create the puppies as thumb drive installs, then copy them to their own directory on the main PC HDD. I run the G4D installer and tell it to use the bootthumb to install the bootloader, and then search the HDD for operating systems.

G4D finds the primary OS install, and all the puppies. Then I just use the boot thumb if I want to boot puppies ..
Cool
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11125
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sun 07 Oct 2018, 23:52    Post subject:  

Dave_Kimble wrote:
ITSMERSH wrote:
bigpup wrote:
It seems it could be the problem.
Grub4DOS Error 13, wee 13> due to 64-bit Ext4
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=111376

So, definitely NOT Xenial Puppy!? Very Happy

I'm using ext4 only inside the .sfs modules (as it is by default).


Well, it came in a package call "Xenial-Pup64_7.5" and it only took Menu > System > Grub4DOS > to totally brick my drive and waste 48 hours of my life trying to recover things.
It would be better to just get rid of it.

Grub2 wasn't installed, and wouldn't install lots of times. When I finally got it and ran "update-grub", it complained about something - the error messages are absolutely useless.

When you start mixing Linux operating systems together you can have problems.
That last statement indicates you had install problems before trying to install Puppy.

Quote:
it only took Menu > System > Grub4DOS > to totally brick my drive

No it did not brick it.
It was just the wrong boot loader for how you had your computer setup.

Puppy can not control all the changes, that other Linux operating systems make, to how they work and boot.

Those main stream Linux OS do not even try to work with another Linux OS installed.
They totally take over the computer.

Use the info provided to fix the boot loader issue.
Or Put Puppy on a USB flash drive and boot Puppy from that.
Never affects what is on the computers hard drive and works very well as a Puppy live USB.

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2684
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Mon 08 Oct 2018, 12:11    Post subject: Using a USB-Key to hold Puppy's Grub4dos  

jafadmin wrote:
@mikeslr

A nice solution that I use a lot is to format a small USB Flash drive to ext2 and just use it as a Grub4DOS boot thumb. Works pretty well for dual-booting.

I can have a main (Ubuntu, or whatever) install on the HD that usually uses Grub2, but I the Grub4DOS thumbdrive to boot the machine when I want to boot the puppies on the same HD.

This makes the main distro isolated from my puppies, and Grub2 updates, etc have no effect on the thumb drive.

I'll create the puppies as thumb drive installs, then copy them to their own directory on the main PC HDD. I run the G4D installer and tell it to use the bootthumb to install the bootloader, and then search the HDD for operating systems.

G4D finds the primary OS install, and all the puppies. Then I just use the boot thumb if I want to boot puppies ..
Cool


That's actually how I boot my desktop, the top of which is a convenient place to put the USB-Key when it is not in use. I've previously posted about it usually referencing my wife's Toshiba Satellite L775. Puppy worked great from a USB-stick, so I installed it locking her out of her beloved Window's 7. Eventually I had to install Ubuntu --wasting about 30 Gbs of hard-drive as it was never used-- just so that Grub2 provided access to Windows 7. I thought at the time it was just a Toshiba problem so left it at that. But when I was forced to acquire my own Window 7 refurbished computer, I didn't want to take the chance.

Booting Laptops with a USB-Key is a different story, Being mobile, there's really no one place for the USB-Key when not in use. [Shirt-pocket > Washing Machine more than once Shocked Laughing]. And having a USB-Key always sticking out seems an invitation to a disaster.

On the other hand, when a USB-Key serves only as a boot-loader --all required files on the hard-drive-- once Puppy reaches desktop there's no reason to leave the USB-Key plugged in.
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