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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge
FrugalPup 20 - Puppy frugal installer.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13981
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sun 20 Oct 2019, 11:25    Post subject:  

For sure, this time, using FrugalPup_15.sfs

Installed Bionicpup64 8.0 to a USB flash drive.
Installed the UEFI boot loader.

grubx64.efi is not in the boot files in this install.

The USB drive will not boot if secure boot is enabled.

So, seems if you do this using Frugalpup V11.
It puts grubx64.efi in the boot files.
With that in the boot files.
The USB drive will boot with secure boot enabled.
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gyro

Joined: 28 Oct 2008
Posts: 1799
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Sun 20 Oct 2019, 11:42    Post subject:  

@bigpup,

Thanks for testing.

All FrugalPup's v13 or less, seem to have secure boot support, (all quite by accident).
FrugalPup v15, and subsequent versions, have uefi support but not secure boot support.

My plans do not include going back the the uefi code of the earlier versions, it's a kind of dead end, but rather to move forward using grub2 compiled myself for both uefi and non-uefi booting so I can fully support "normal" frugal installs on f2fs partitions.

Hmm...., maybe a special FrugalPupZ, that uses that old uefi code??

gyro
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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 13129
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Sun 20 Oct 2019, 11:56    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
So, seems if you do this using Frugalpup V11.
It puts grubx64.efi in the boot files.
With that in the boot files.
The USB drive will boot with secure boot enabled.

Where did grubx64.efi come from? Is it acting as the "shim" that provides authentication for whatever loads next?

I would like to hear from jamesbond on this situation.
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foxpup

Joined: 29 Jul 2016
Posts: 1141

PostPosted: Sun 20 Oct 2019, 15:20    Post subject: confirmation  

I finally got my EFI laptop for myself to mess up the boot Wink
(I see some people are afraid to mess up, I don't mind. Smile
My precaution is
to copy the content of the boot partition that is working,
to have a bootable usb with a Puppy
and to know the key for entering BIOS interface on startup.)

I had a frugalpup 11, so decided to install the boot with it ad rebooted with secure boot.
To my surprise no mess up, but perfect boot of Puppy! Smile

My suspicion is also that it is the second efi binary in /EFI/boot that does this. (bootx64.efi is shim)
The origin is zilla-efi.tar.xz in frugalpup 11. (In frugalpup 15 this is debian-efi.tar.xz)

In this topic on clonezilla the suspicion is confirmed:
Quote:
It's a little complicated... You have to use shim and grub for uEFI secure boot.


I will try out some ideas now:
- does shim work with another (any) grubx64.efi?
- shim from the fedora I had installed once upon a time (wanted to do that earlier)
...

It would be nice if someone with more knowledge about shim would step forward and help out here.

@gyro, by the way
One thing I liked about grub4dos was that it recognizes frugal Puppys very well and makes a nice configfile.
With grub2 I would have to install grub2+prober (+ ...?) and that I find to much.
I am impressed your script does so well finding Puppy and making the configfile for grub2.
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gyro

Joined: 28 Oct 2008
Posts: 1799
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Sun 20 Oct 2019, 17:34    Post subject:  

@foxpup,
The way "Grub4Dos bootloader config" can create boot entries for multiple Puppy installs, was one of the inspirations for my developing FrugalPup.

As to the Secure Boot thingo, I pleed complete ignorance.
I was looking for an alternative to the uefi code in Puppy because it paused on a useless screen before getting to the boot selection screen. I found the one I call "zilla-efi" that went staright to the boot selection screen, and got it to work, so I "borrowed" it.

gyro
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13981
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sun 20 Oct 2019, 18:34    Post subject:  

gyro,

For right now.
Could you keep the FrugalPup V11 on the download web site.
It seems to make a working UEFI boot loader.
Whatever code you put in it by accident (on purpose), is working!

You have followed the 1st law of coding.
I do not know why it works, but it does Shocked Laughing
Well, I could explain it to you, but you would not understand!

Tweak away all you want to on FrugalPup.
I am using it more and more.
I like it! Very Happy

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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13981
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sun 20 Oct 2019, 19:49    Post subject:  

When using FrugalPup and you get to this window.
It really needs some information on what these options do and why you need to use them.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13981
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sun 20 Oct 2019, 20:05    Post subject:  

It would be good if the first window would close when you select one of the buttons.
So you only see what you selected and not this.
Maybe make the first window go to the tray, until it is needed again.
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gyro

Joined: 28 Oct 2008
Posts: 1799
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Mon 21 Oct 2019, 08:32    Post subject:  

@bigpup,

Thanks for your suggestions.
Your are right the FrugalPup GUI could do with a bit of work.
I intend to revisit the GUI in a, hopefully not too distant, future release.

1. The "kernel boot parameters" dialog is quite confusing if you don't already know something about them.
There are lots of "kernel boot parameters" defined for the Linux kernel, the few that appear in the dialog are specified in the file '/root/.config/frugalpup.conf'.
So my idea would be to have text that encourages folk who don't have a clue, to simply accept the defaults and click "OK",
plus a url reference to some web page in the Linux kernel documentation explaining the available kernel boot parameters. Clicking on this link in the dialog should open the 'defaultwebbrowser' and show the page.

2. The main screen remaining is a yad thing, this is what happens when you use buttons in a form.
Yes, it would be nice if it went away or minimised to the tray, when not in use, and then reappearing again when the sub-facility is finished.
But I think the higest priority for the GUI, is to optomise the clarity of the other dialogs.

3. The latest FrugalPup that includes "zilla-efi" is v13, so that is what I should keep, rather than v11.
v11 is only in play because it is embedded in the Bionicpup64 updates.

4. I have a fix for your problem with FrugalPup v11 on Bionicpup64.
See my next post announcing "clear-save".

gyro
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gyro

Joined: 28 Oct 2008
Posts: 1799
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Mon 21 Oct 2019, 09:04    Post subject: clear-save - a CLI utility ro remove files from save layer  

I have attached 'clear_save-1.sfs'. This is meant to be loaded as an "extra sfs".

This script makes files simply dissapear from the save layer, so that old files in the underlying layers can "shine through".

An example:

Bionicpup64 includes FrugalPup/StickPup v11 in it's updates.
These updates get written to the save layer, the top of the stack.
If 'frugalpup_15.sfs' is then loaded as an "extra sfs", it's files get appended to the bottom of the stack.
So running FrugalPup still results in the v11 files in the save layer being executed not the v15 files in the sfs file.

So, load 'save_clear-1.sfs' as an "extra sfs" file, then in a console run:
Code:
clear-save -mi
Then run FrugalPup again. Now it should show as v15.
'clear-save' has "cleared" any files in '/usr/local/frugaloup' and '/usr/local/mi-utils' from the save layer, so the v15 files in the 'frugalpup_15.sfs' can "shine through".
(It worked for me.)

To see a "usage" message for 'clear-save', in a console run:
Code:
clear-save
Don't worry about the reference to "and reboot", that only happens sometimes when using overlayfs for the stack.

gyro
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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 13129
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Mon 21 Oct 2019, 09:28    Post subject:  

I used frugalpup_13 to set up a UEFI flash drive. It had both .efi files.

I booted it on a machine with SecureBoot ON. But I got the same "failure to authenticate" error.

So I don't think that this is a one-size-fits-all solution to dealing with SecureBoot.
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3913
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Mon 21 Oct 2019, 11:00    Post subject:  

gyro, "plus a url reference to some web page in the Linux kernel documentation explaining the available kernel boot parameters."

I know you are 'brain-storming'. Just wanted to mention that the 'web page' could/should be an htm in /usr/share/doc opened by /usr/local/bin/defaultwebrowser /usr/share/doc/NAME_OF_FILE.htm

Alternatively, as some Puppies are being published without a default web-browser [just a module to download your choice] but still include abiword, perhaps an rtf file (rtf can change fonts etc for emphasis] in /usr/share/doc.

SFS vs. Pet: You can find several of my posts where I've recommended the use of SFSes rather than pets because a problem SFS can be unloaded returning the system to its prior state while uninstalling a pet may break something; and using an SFS allows you to keep a SaveFile small. That, however, is no longer the extent of my practice.

Current and recent computers have multiples of both the RAM and hard-drive space compared to the computers available at Puppy's origin. And that will always be true of computers employing the UEFI mechanism.

Although I build SFSes to test applications, once tested and found not to conflict with other applications I convert SFSes to pets, unless they are of 'substantial' size. [Substantial is intentionally vague. But anything under 20 Mbs is converter into a pet]. Since files in a SaveFile/Folder have priority in the 'merge file-system' installing a pet would avoid the problem you encountered.

Advances in Puppy's remaster applications now make it fast and almost painless. A remaster combines the contents of the SaveFile/Folder and the Puppy_VERSION.sfs. Using the remastered Puppy I can, once again, operate with only a "small" SaveFile -- at least until you guys publish some more 'must have' applications or updates. Smile
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gyro

Joined: 28 Oct 2008
Posts: 1799
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Mon 21 Oct 2019, 12:01    Post subject:  

@rcrsn51,
I'm not trying to address the SecureBoot issue.
My expectation is that FrugalPup's uefi stuff will work with SecureBoot disabled.
I will not be pursuing the issue as to why v11 seemed to work for bigpup and v13 did not work for you.

@mikesir,
I had something more like https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v4.14/admin-guide/kernel-parameters.html in mind.

gyro
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13981
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Tue 22 Oct 2019, 07:44    Post subject:  

What about just adding the needed information to the window that gives you kernel options for parameters.

This is the needed info:

Usually these are not needed.
Normally do not select any of these.
Just click OK.

1. acpi_osi=Linux
BIOS's usually disable functionality if Windows is not detected.
By default the kernel responds Windows when asked if Linux is running.
acpi_osi=Linux tells the kernel to respond Linux.
Bios workarounds for Windows can cause unnecessary performance penalities and other problems for all later Linux versions.

2. libata.noacpi=1
This may fix some problems with older or incompatible Bios / UEFI
unable to resume correctly from suspend.
Very often this also turns ACPI off.
However, disabled acpi is not recommended,
because ACPI is to communicate with the hardware.
Especially in laptops ( to turn off, to change the brightness, to change the volume ).

3. intel_pstate=disable
Intel processors by default use cpu-frequency scaling driver intel_pstate.
It only supports powersave and performance frequency-scaling-governor.
Use this to allow other frequency-scaling-governors to be used.
However, this may affect newer Intel processors in ways you do not want affected.

4. net.ifnames=o
Make predictable network interface names work consistently.
If you want to default to using the old method (i.e. "eth0").
The Linux kernel may default to using predictable network interface names (i.e. "p4p1").


I tried to add it to the FrugalPup code.
I edited frugalpup-puppyfies starting at line 253.
But I am guessing how to do it.

_________________
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
YaPI(any iso installer)

Last edited by bigpup on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 09:21; edited 1 time in total
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gyro

Joined: 28 Oct 2008
Posts: 1799
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Tue 22 Oct 2019, 09:11    Post subject:  

@bigpup,

I don't want to hard code the help information for the current list of kernel boot parameters, because the contents of the list can easily be changed by editing '/root/.config/frugalpup.conf'.
To do this properly there would need to be a "database" that holds help for all the possible kernel parameters and then displays only those that belong to the ones in the selection list.

That's why my intention is to hard code a message that basically says:
If you have no clue, accept the defaults and click "OK".
If you have some clue make selections and click "OK".
If you really want to know more about "kernel boot parameters" then view this web page.

gyro

Last edited by gyro on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 09:17; edited 1 time in total
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