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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge
FrugalPup 20 - Puppy frugal installer.
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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gyro

Joined: 28 Oct 2008
Posts: 1799
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec 2019, 01:03    Post subject:  

@bigpup,
The short answer is, I've no idea which version of "mokutil" I have. Or if there are any that are better than the one I have.
Installing "mokutil" from the PPM was simply the easiest way to give it a go.
I just wanted to check that I could actually "reset" the MOK, and hence remove that key from the machine.

gyro
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13981
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec 2019, 02:01    Post subject:  

That was the one thing I was going to complain about too.
Something, telling you to press enter, to make the directory, would seem to be needed.
That OK button just seems the logical thing to select.

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gyro

Joined: 28 Oct 2008
Posts: 1799
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec 2019, 07:52    Post subject:  

@bigpup, and @mikesir,

I've added:
Code:
 Note: If you use the "Create Folder" button,
 you need to hit the "Enter" key after typing the new folder name.
to the text at the top of the offending dialog in FrugalPup->Puppy.
And since DiskPup has a corresponding dialog, I've fixed that one too.
It will be in the next release.

Thanks for testing.

Your experiences confirm to me the value of the "confirm" dialog just before actually doing anything.

gyro
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13981
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec 2019, 17:49    Post subject:  

What are you doing putting useful information in a program Exclamation Rolling Eyes Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

Thanks for the added info!!

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gyro

Joined: 28 Oct 2008
Posts: 1799
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Sun 15 Dec 2019, 07:05    Post subject:  

FrugalPup 16, StickPup 16, DiskPup 16 and f2StickPup 16 - Puppy frugal installer.

Download extra sfs 'frugalpup_16.sfs' from http://www.mediafire.com/folder/rdyc5lgzpeij1/frugalpup (2.1 MiB).

No real surprises.

Changes:

1. Full support for locating Puppy install directory in f2fs partition.

2. Uses Grub2 for both uefi and non-uefi booting, compiled from source.
(Nothing is signed, no support for "SecureBoot".)

3. Changes to the GUI to improve ease of use.

4. Added "Help" and "Settings" facilities.

5. New frontends 'f2StickPup' and 'DiskPup'

6. Changed internals that make creating frontends easier.

gyro
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13981
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 03 Jan 2020, 08:55    Post subject:  

Here is a topic about problem using StickPup to install to a 1GB USB flash drive.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=117743

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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13981
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 03 Jan 2020, 08:59    Post subject:  

I have been testing and using FrugalPup 16.
So far, nothing for me to report, as a problem, for me.

Well, other than no more UEFI booting with secure boot enabled.
Still hopping UEFI booting, with secure boot enabled, can be figured out.

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gyro

Joined: 28 Oct 2008
Posts: 1799
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Mon 06 Jan 2020, 08:33    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
Here is a topic about problem using StickPup to install to a 1GB USB flash drive.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=117743
I've answered that question in that topic.
There is a problem in the code in that a nominal 1GB stick does not contain 1GiB of space, so the test should use a smaller number e.g. 800.
I pose the question, should the limit be a 1GB stick or 512MB stick?

I will modify the code for the next release.
Note: "f2StickPup" contains identical code, so it will also be modified.

gyro
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gyro

Joined: 28 Oct 2008
Posts: 1799
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Mon 06 Jan 2020, 09:10    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
Well, other than no more UEFI booting with secure boot enabled.
Still hopping UEFI booting, with secure boot enabled, can be figured out.
That is next on my list of things todo for FrugalPup.

A question is, what do we want to achieve with enabled "SecureBoot"?

1. Subvert it so that virtually anything (all unsigned) can be booted, e.g. FrugalPup v 15w.

2. Provide full MOK support so that a user can produce their own MOK and their machine will boot only things signed with their own MOK. i.e. honour the concept of "SecureBoot"

3. Something inbetween, i.e. Puppy is released with a MOK, and some significant files are checked to ensure they are signed with that MOK, thus making it difficult for a Puppy release to be used to completely subvert "SecureBoot".

Note: The "SecureBoot" stuff has been disabled in v16 by simply not including the file "/usr/local/frugalpup/grub2-sbm.tar.xz" in the ".sfs".

gyro
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gyro

Joined: 28 Oct 2008
Posts: 1799
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Mon 06 Jan 2020, 09:11    Post subject:  

@bigpup,
Thanks for testing.
gyro
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13981
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Mon 06 Jan 2020, 12:01    Post subject:  

Quote:
I pose the question, should the limit be a 1GB stick or 512MB stick?

My vote is 512MB.

People still want to try dumb things.
Putting Puppy on a USB, with little room to save Rolling Eyes

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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3913
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Mon 06 Jan 2020, 15:57    Post subject:  

gyro wrote:
...

A question is, what do we want to achieve with enabled "SecureBoot"?

1. Subvert it so that virtually anything (all unsigned) can be booted, e.g. FrugalPup v 15w.

2. Provide full MOK support so that a user can produce their own MOK and their machine will boot only things signed with their own MOK. i.e. honour the concept of "SecureBoot"

3. Something inbetween, i.e. Puppy is released with a MOK, and some significant files are checked to ensure they are signed with that MOK, thus making it difficult for a Puppy release to be used to completely subvert "SecureBoot"... gyro


Whichever provides the user of Puppy the most reliable method of booting Puppy. So, my vote is for "4": virtually any Puppy published with a UEFI key can be booted.

As I noted here, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=859079#859079 and in the post two down from that, Secure boot does not make an operating system more secure. It's real purpose was to leverage Microsoft's dominance as an operating system while it transitioned from a license seller to a license renter. We didn't ask for UEFI. But we have adapted. Puppies can, and currently are, published with a UEFI key. Let Microsoft and the manufacturers which toe the line it's created worry about preserving that dominance.

About USB-Size, whichever is easier. Considering the current size of operating systems and applications, about the only thing a 516 Mb USB-Key can be used for today is as a dedicated "boot" key: that is one which only contains the instructions (bootloader & associated files) to boot operating systems located on other drives.
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gyro

Joined: 28 Oct 2008
Posts: 1799
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Tue 07 Jan 2020, 09:20    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
Here is a topic about problem using StickPup to install to a 1GB USB flash drive.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=117743
I'm leaning towards the acceptance of a 512MB stick, but the rejection of a 256MB stick.
See the other topic for more detail.

I'm looking at providing a patch, but I haven't decided which form the patch should be in, yet.

gyro
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gyro

Joined: 28 Oct 2008
Posts: 1799
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Tue 07 Jan 2020, 09:42    Post subject:  

mikeslr wrote:
About USB-Size, whichever is easier. Considering the current size of operating systems and applications, about the only thing a 516 Mb USB-Key can be used for today is as a dedicated "boot" key: that is one which only contains the instructions (bootloader & associated files) to boot operating systems located on other drives.
Looking at various frugal installs of recent Puppies, a 512MB USB stick, should be big enough to contain a single frugal install and sucessfully boot.
So I intend to not stop users doing that with StickPup.
It just won't have much room left for "save" and/or local files.

I consider the smallest USB stick for a "useful" install of a single Puppy is 1GB.

When I produced a USB boot stick that contains only the bootloader, it used less than 10MiB, so even my ancient 16MB stick should be big enough for that.

gyro
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gyro

Joined: 28 Oct 2008
Posts: 1799
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Thu 09 Jan 2020, 10:53    Post subject:  

FrugalPup 17, DiskPup 17, StickPup 17 and f2StickPup 17 - Puppy frugal installer.

Download extra sfs 'frugalpup_17.sfs' from http://www.mediafire.com/folder/rdyc5lgzpeij1/frugalpup (2.1 MiB).

This is a bugfix release.

Bug:
StickPup and f2StickPup reject 1GB USB stick as being too small.

Fix:
Both should accept USB sticks as small as 512MB.

gyro
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