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 Forum index » House Training » Users ( For the regulars )
"files" that can't be deleted
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Saladin

Joined: 27 Aug 2011
Posts: 87

PostPosted: Mon 13 Aug 2018, 22:51    Post subject:  "files" that can't be deleted  

I googled and found this thread, but unfortunately no solution. I'm having a very similar problem. I have a directory filled with these "files", which rox filer labels with orange exclamation point danger sign icons. They don't seem to take up any space, but I can't change the permissions on them or delete them--either from rox filer or from the terminal. I've tried in three different linux distros now, and none of them seem to be able to affect these things. When I open up a properties window, it shows "Error: input/output error", which is the same error I get from rox filer and from the terminal when I try to affect them in any way. It also shows a completely blank permissions table.

What does this mean? Is my hard drive going bad?
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 12966
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Tue 14 Aug 2018, 02:15    Post subject: Re: "files" that can't be deleted  

Saladin wrote:
I googled and found this thread, but unfortunately no solution. I'm having a very similar problem. I have a directory filled with these "files", which rox filer labels with orange exclamation point danger sign icons. They don't seem to take up any space, but I can't change the permissions on them or delete them--either from rox filer or from the terminal. I've tried in three different linux distros now, and none of them seem to be able to affect these things. When I open up a properties window, it shows "Error: input/output error", which is the same error I get from rox filer and from the terminal when I try to affect them in any way. It also shows a completely blank permissions table.

What does this mean? Is my hard drive going bad?

Hello Saladin.

Could be...

Are you getting a "stat" message as well? Something like: "cannot stat file
or directory so-and-so."

However, before myself or anybody else here can help you, please state breed
and version of your PuppyLinux and a short description of your PC, and in this
case, of your hard drive, too.

A few questions:
Is your HD really old?
What is the format of the HD? ext2, ext3, ext4,vfat, ntfs?
As mentioned in the other thread, do you have a recent back-up?

If the file system is ext-something, maybe it just needs a refresh with the
fsck utility.
If ntfs, then use the equivalent WhineDose utility, defrag or something.

But please provide requested info before we can go further. TIA.

IHTH.

_________________
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
Je suis né pour aimer et non pas pour haïr. (Sophocle) /
I was born to love and not to hate. (Sophocles)
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 2675
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Tue 14 Aug 2018, 04:26    Post subject:  

These could be: files that do not exist; links to files that do not exist anymore or incorrect links to files that still exist. Anyways - if you are running a savefile you should be able to "delete" these most probably resulting in hiding them from view. If they are part of the base sfs file or any other loaded sfs file, the only way to physically remove them is to edit/remaster that sfs file.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11263
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Tue 14 Aug 2018, 07:59    Post subject:  

Do they look like this image?
capture8704.png
 Description   
 Filesize   5.61 KB
 Viewed   206 Time(s)

capture8704.png


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When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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Saladin

Joined: 27 Aug 2011
Posts: 87

PostPosted: Tue 14 Aug 2018, 09:47    Post subject:  

Yes, they look just like those icons, except they don't have the symbolic link arrow.

I do have a directory with broken links in it, so I can compare them. The broken links say "Sym link 'file'" when I right-click on them. The other files say "Unknown 'file'". The broken links give me lots of information on the properties window, like owner, size, change/modify/access times and so on. The other files just say "Error: input/output error" and give me a blank permissions table. And of course I can delete the broken links.

But the icons are the same between the two, and both have the red letters instead of the usual black.

I haven't seen any "cannot stat" message, but maybe I'm not looking in the right place.

I've seen these icons on Xenial 64 7.5, 32 bit Precice , and on Tiny Core--they don't seem to be tied to the OS, just the hard drive. The hard drive is about ten years old, and formatted as ntfs.

I do have recent backups of everything irreplaceable, but there's more than 200 gigs that isn't backed up that I'd rather not lose if I can avoid it.
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rockedge


Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 849
Location: Connecticut, United States

PostPosted: Tue 14 Aug 2018, 12:49    Post subject:  

are there more of these icons sprinkled throughout the file system?
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Saladin

Joined: 27 Aug 2011
Posts: 87

PostPosted: Tue 14 Aug 2018, 13:01    Post subject:  

I hope not. I haven't seen any others, but there's no way to be sure without deleting everything or opening up every directory to look.
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rockedge


Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 849
Location: Connecticut, United States

PostPosted: Tue 14 Aug 2018, 14:32    Post subject:  

unmount the ntfs drive and then in a terminal try:
Code:
/sbin/mount.ntfs-3g /dev/sda1 /mnt/sda1


replace the /sda1 with your drive.

did this change anything?
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11263
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Tue 14 Aug 2018, 16:06    Post subject:  

If you can boot Windows.
Use Windows defrag and chkdsk programs on the ntfs partition.
See if they find and correct anything in the ntfs file system.

Could try a check of the save.
To test for and repair errors in Linux file system, use "e2fsck".

Reboot Puppy, using boot option " puppy pfix=ram"

The save file can not be in use.

Mount the partition the save is on.

Open a terminal, and enter:

e2fsck /path to savefile

For example:
e2fsck /mnt/sda1/pupsave.2fs

/mnt/sda1 is the partition the save is on.
pupsave.2fs is the name of the save.
Yours will be different names.

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 12966
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Tue 14 Aug 2018, 17:17    Post subject:  

Hello Saladin.

Do these files have names? Please mention them if you can.

That could give us a clue as to what type of files they are:

From WhineDose OS?
From Linux OS?

Document files?
Executables?
Libraries?

TIA

I once had the exact same problem after formatting an USB key in UDF. A
couple of files appeared from nowhere, and I was not able to erase them.
The only solution was to reformat the key in ext2. (Just a thought.)

BFN.

_________________
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
Je suis né pour aimer et non pas pour haïr. (Sophocle) /
I was born to love and not to hate. (Sophocles)
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slavvo67

Joined: 12 Oct 2012
Posts: 1570
Location: The other Mr. 305

PostPosted: Wed 15 Aug 2018, 13:25    Post subject:  

Unfortunately, I think the easiest workaround is to save any imprortant files or docs and create a new Linux installation. They don't seem to harm anything but those trianglea are annoying.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11263
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Wed 15 Aug 2018, 17:21    Post subject:  

If everything is working.
Stop looking at those files.
If it is not broken stop trying to fix it.

A file system check may correct this.
Probably some fragments in the file allocation table in the file system.

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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Saladin

Joined: 27 Aug 2011
Posts: 87

PostPosted: Wed 15 Aug 2018, 22:35    Post subject:  

rockedge wrote:
unmount the ntfs drive and then in a terminal try:
Code:
/sbin/mount.ntfs-3g /dev/sda1 /mnt/sda1


replace the /sda1 with your drive.

did this change anything?


No, it doesn't seem to have changed anything.

bigpup wrote:
If you can boot Windows.

...

Could try a check of the save.


Don't have Windows or a save file. The files are on the actual hard drive.

musher0 wrote:
Do these files have names? Please mention them if you can.


I don't use a save file for booting Puppy. Instead, remastered with a symlink to the hard drive for wine to save its "drive_c" files there. I recently upgraded to a new version of Puppy, and deleted the old "drive_c" directory--except that some of the files inside didn't go away. They're named: "America" and then there's a directory named "Africa" with the following inside:

Quote:
Malabo
Maputo
Maseru
Mbabane
Mogadishu
Monrovia
Nairobi
Ndjamena
Niamey
Nouakchott
Ouagadougou
Porto-Novo
Sao_Tome
Timbuktu
Tripoli
Tunis
Windhoek


bigpup wrote:
A file system check may correct this.
Probably some fragments in the file allocation table in the file system.


So it's not a warning sign that the hard drive is going bad, or anything like that?
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 12966
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Wed 15 Aug 2018, 23:17    Post subject:  

Hi Saladin.

Those names are cities in various African countries. Looks like the
leftover of a timezone app.

In any Puppy, have a look at (cd to)
/usr/share/zoneinfo/Africa
Very similar. It's used mostly by the date utility, but also (not 100 %
sure) by the ntp protocol (when its utilities are installed).

But the good news is: they are info (data) files, not executables and
certainly not malware.

Maybe the leftover from a incomplete formatting or partitioning. A power
outage occurred while formatting was going on, maybe? Do you recall
anything like that? If not yourself, perhaps the previous owner of the hard
drive? That would explain it.

BFN.

_________________
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
Je suis né pour aimer et non pas pour haïr. (Sophocle) /
I was born to love and not to hate. (Sophocles)
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 12966
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Wed 15 Aug 2018, 23:36    Post subject:  

Hello again, Saladin.

Could you please jot down somewhere the complete path of those
zoneinfo files, please?

Then could you please open a console and type:
Code:
probepart
you should get something like this:
Quote:
/dev/sda1|ext4|163840000
/dev/sda2|swap|5120000
/dev/sda5|ext3|59979776
/dev/sda6|ext4|59979776
/dev/sda7|ext3|98981888
/dev/sda8|ext4|80945152
/dev/sdb1|ntfs|15361984
/dev/sdb2|ext4|73728000
/dev/sdb5|ext4|74752000
/dev/sdb6|ext4|74364928
/dev/sdb7|ext4|74362880
/dev/sdc1|none|204800
/dev/sdc2|swap|4096000
/dev/sdc3|ext4|153600000
/dev/sdc5|ext4|153600000
/dev/sdc6|ext3|221184000
/dev/sdc7|ext4|221184000
/dev/sdc8|ext4|222894080
/dev/zram0|ext2|4790272
probepart gives you the raw info about your drives:
name when not mounted, type of format and size.

Look in 1st column, 2nd part: the sdXY part.

Do you have a similar sdXY part in the path of your weird files?
This comparison will tell us the name of the partition and its format.

Also if a fsck from the Linux OS will solve the problem... if it's a
Whinedose partition such as ntfs or even vfat, we may be out of luck.

BFN.

_________________
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
Je suis né pour aimer et non pas pour haïr. (Sophocle) /
I was born to love and not to hate. (Sophocles)
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