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 Forum index » House Training » Users ( For the regulars )
How to change default user when browsing. Fatdog64 <SOLVED>
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dcung

Joined: 13 Jul 2018
Posts: 229
Location: Down Under - 3rd rock from Sun.

PostPosted: Sat 11 Aug 2018, 01:34    Post subject:  How to change default user when browsing. Fatdog64 <SOLVED>
Subject description: i.e. not spot <SOLVED>
 

Hi,

When browsing the net, and you want to download something, puppy only let you save it to "Downloads" folder (link to /home/spot/downloads). I take it it has to do with security/permission of 'spot'?

I want to avoid having to move the downloaded stuff afterward.

I want to add a USB disk (or any other location), and let the browser save to that location, how do I do that?

I'm using Fatdog64_721, but I assume the procedure would be similar to many puppies?

Thank you.
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Last edited by dcung on Wed 15 Aug 2018, 23:35; edited 4 times in total
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trapster


Joined: 28 Nov 2005
Posts: 2115
Location: Maine, USA

PostPosted: Sat 11 Aug 2018, 07:38    Post subject:  

It should be a setting in your web browser.
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 4370
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Sat 11 Aug 2018, 08:12    Post subject:  

@ dcung :-

Chrome has for years allowed you to choose where to download to. Until recently, Firefox didn't.....but Quantum now allows you to do this too.

Just look through Chrome's 'Settings', or Quantum's 'Preferences'. You'll find it. For Chrome, you'll need to extend the settings page into 'Advanced Settings'....


Mike. Wink

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Smithy


Joined: 12 Dec 2011
Posts: 948

PostPosted: Sat 11 Aug 2018, 08:26    Post subject:  

Mike Walsh wrote:
@ dcung :-

Until recently, Firefox didn't.....but Quantum now allows you to do this too.




Mike. Wink

Mike, it has always been there in Firefox.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11260
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sat 11 Aug 2018, 08:30    Post subject:  

You seem to be running your browser as spot.
When you do that you are limited to working in the browser as spot user.
Quote:
you can choose to run some Internet applications as the restricted user spot.
This means that you have unfettered access to your local system, all the benefits of root, no hassles with file/directory ownerships and permissions, no restrictions on access to all hardware.
But, you can run, for example, SeaMonkey (browser, Composer, mail&news, IRC-chat suite), as spot. The home directory for spot is /root/spot, and SeaMonkey will only be able to (normally) edit/create/write files inside /root/spot.

Normal Puppies have spot in /root
Seems Fatdog64_721 has spot in /home
However the same restrictions to running a browser as spot should apply.

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perdido


Joined: 09 Dec 2013
Posts: 1043
Location: ¿Altair IV , Just north of Eeyore Junction.?

PostPosted: Sat 11 Aug 2018, 09:31    Post subject:  

Howdy dcung,

Easy. Make a directory where you want to save your files.

After making the directory, right click the directory using rox filer.
A menu opens up, navigate to "permissions"
Type 777 in the "command" box
Click yes.

You just changed the permissions for that directory. The whole world can read, write and execute files in that directory, including limited user spot.

By the way, do you use xfe file manager?



.
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 4370
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Sat 11 Aug 2018, 10:51    Post subject:  

Hi, Smithy.

Smithy wrote:
Mike Walsh wrote:
@ dcung :-

Until recently, Firefox didn't.....but Quantum now allows you to do this too.


Mike. Wink

Mike, it has always been there in Firefox.


Fair enough; thanks for the info. I've only recently started spending any amount of time with Firefox since Quantum came out. I gave it up as a bad job years ago, when all it seemed to do was crash all the time.....and Chrome had just been released. So I never really bothered with learning the settings on it.

Quantum, of course, is now what FF could have been a long time ago (if it weren't for all the constant back-biting and in-fighting among the Mozilla devs).

Q.E.D.


Mike. Wink

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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2775
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Sat 11 Aug 2018, 15:30    Post subject: Much confusion about Spot
Subject description: Maybe just by me
 

Until Google went all agrophobic, I happily ran web-browsers –both firefox and its spawn and google-chrome and its spawn-- configuring their download settings to default to /mnt/home/Download by default but “Ask every time”. Although Puppies have long offered the choice to “run as Spot” web-browsers [and other applications], it was a choice I didn't take. Firefox can still be run as Root with it download mechanism configured to provide those choices. But since about November of 2017 devs report that it is impossible to build a current Chrome-or-clones browser which will run with root privileges.

All recent Puppies have responded by utilizing the Spot device. Doing so is optional for most Puppies hence under them firefox and its spawns can still run as Root, while Chrome and its spawn must be run as Spot. As I don't run FatDog64, I'm uncertain to what extent that choice remains. I do know that FatDog64 took a slightly different approach to working with Spot. On most Puppies, Spot is set up as a folder in /root, while under FatDog64 Spot is a “Top-Level” folder: that is at the “root” of system-tree parallel to such folders as bin, initrd, lib, mnt, root and usr.

From my view-point, the problem with either arrangement is that under Puppy's “merge-file-system” whether Spot is at the Top of the system-tree or in a folder under /root, it occupies Random Access Memory. Even though my surviving computers have 6 Gbs of RAM or more, from my prospective the purpose of RAM is to provide “work-space” – the place where things happen, changes are made-- not Storage. Hence, my preferences for the use of SFSes, AppImages, External Applications and configuring web-browsers to download to /mnt/home/Downloads and moving /root/.cache to /mnt/home/web-stuff/.cache. Under Puppies' merge-file-system, the only locations which does not occupy RAM are those under /mnt/home. Having been forced to utilize the limited user Spot, I would have thought Devs would have configured the Spot to be located on /mnt/home, e.g. /mnt/home/Spot or perhaps function like the portable-applications Shinobar and the Japanese Team created: Wine-portable, firefox-portable, seamonkey-portable, chrome-portable. Those are folders on /mnt/home containing a SFS of the application, a folder for datafiles created or downloaded or (in Wine-portable, the installation of applications) only linked to the operating system by a script in that operating system. Had that been the workaround, of course, it would have been necessary to build Chrome-and-clone web-browsers to operate from /mnt/home.

But it wasn't. So, Spot is in /root (or otherwise in RAM) and the problem is how NOT to have downloaded files be, or remain in, the Spot folder. Perdido suggests it's as simple as creating a folder elsewhere and giving it the proper permissions: 777 – read, write and execute. But I don't think so. The mechanism “Spot” is, AFAIK, designed as a limited user. That's why chrome-and-clones find it acceptable. The limitation is that an application running as Spot can neither read-from nor write-to any folder beyond the folder where it resides. At least that has been my experience. (a) Desiring to import bookmarks, I've had to first copy them into the Spot folder using Root's power; and (b) even when I've configured a Chrome-browser to enable choice of download locations, if I chose other than within the Spot folder, “Chrome” would run thru the motions of downloading, but nothing got written to the chosen location.

In devising a work-around, Mike Walsh created Spot2Root. [Sorry, can't find the link to it right-now]. It is an application, running as root, which moves a file from /Spot/Download into a temporary folder, changes the files permissions, copies it into /root/Downloads and then deletes the temporary file. But, of course, the file ending up in /root is still in RAM. I suspect Spot2Root could be modified to have the file end up in /mnt/home/Downloads and perhaps it would suffice if /root/Downloads was merely a symbolic link to /mnt/home/Downloads.

The real question I have pertains to any need to change permissions. Before Mike Walsh published Spot2Root, blissfully unaware of any permission concerns I just opened my file-manager to two folders, one the location where I wanted the file to end up and the other to /root/Spot/Downloads, and moved the file from the latter to the former. Among the files so moved were pets, sfses, debs, and tgzs. I even went so far as using UExtract to decompress packages while they were still in /root/Spot/Downloads, and merely moved just those files I wanted. I did nothing to change any file's permissions and in no instance did I have any difficulty installing such packages or using such files. So despite that others might think there was some permission concern involved, I've continued that practice without any ill effects.

From my experience, I see no evidence that the use of Spot has any effect on the permissions assigned to a file. As far as I can tell, Spot under Puppies is just the same kind of “limited user” as a User is under any other Linux Distro: One whose access to files and folders is limited by the system it runs under/code which creates it. On other Linux systems to move a file from the User Folder, you'd open your file browser as Administrator. Under Puppies, your file-browser already has such "root permissions".

Perhaps part of the confusion is that we use the term "Spot" to refer to both the device by which an application is limited to read-write access to a particular folder, and the folder so designated.

I don't have the skill-set to examine the code used to create the Spot device. Perhaps I'm mistaken and/or have been lucky. And, as I mentioned at the beginning, how Spot functions under FatDog64 may be different than how it operates under other Puppies. So I wonder whether anyone with adequate programming knowledge has actually examined the code which creates Spot and can identify the pertinent provisions in that code imposing restrictions on Spot and what each such code provision does.

mikesLr
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perdido


Joined: 09 Dec 2013
Posts: 1043
Location: ¿Altair IV , Just north of Eeyore Junction.?

PostPosted: Sat 11 Aug 2018, 16:06    Post subject: Re: Much confusion about Spot
Subject description: Maybe just by me
 

mikeslr wrote:
Perdido suggests it's as simple as creating a folder elsewhere and giving it the proper permissions: 777 – read, write and execute. But I don't think so.




Hi mikeslr,
Here is a llittle something to try using rox as spot user that will verify that 777 permissions work for spot.

Open rox and navigate to /mnt/home/
create a directory named testing-spot
close rox

Open a terminal.
Code:
su spot

Code:
whoami

that will show you that you are now "spot" in the terminal.
Code:
rox

opens rox as spot
Now navigate to /mnt/home/ and try to create a file or directory in the testing-spot directory
Does not work, you don't have permission.
Ok, now leave the terminal open with your "spot" rox running
then
Start a 2nd rox like you normally would as root
Navigate to /mnt/home/
right click the testing-spot directory using rox filer.
A menu opens up, navigate to "permissions"
Type 777 in the "command" box
Click yes.
You just changed the permissions for the testing-spot directory.
you can close the root version of rox, the rest is done in the spot version of rox (thats why leave terminal open)

Using rox as user spot
Navigate to /mnt/home/testing-spot directory
Try to make a file or directory in the testing-spot directory now. Smile

.
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dcung

Joined: 13 Jul 2018
Posts: 229
Location: Down Under - 3rd rock from Sun.

PostPosted: Sat 11 Aug 2018, 16:43    Post subject:  

Hi All,

I did more tests since I posted earlier.

Irrespective of which browsers, it appears that Fatdog64_721 is more restrictive/secure than others. Depends on one's perpective.. Smile
(I tried few my other puppies and I could save anywhere I like - this is not necessarily good or bad, again depends...).

I think you browse as 'spot' by default in Fatdog. Maybe you could elect to browse as other user (root) somehow, I don't know yet. This is what I was asking. Maybe I should have put this thread in Fatdog (?).

Someone changed the title of the thread. I changed it back, as this is really about permission, not location Smile. Certainly not about how to use a browser Smile .
(BTW - How to find out who changed the title in this thread/forum?)

For the time being, I just created a directory where I want to put my download, run chmod 777 and save there (and change permission again once I'm done). I only do this for large download, like 50GB, as it's a hassle to move it from spot's home.

@perdido,
Not able to do it from GUI (Roxy), only has drop down list not suitable for my need.
I remember chmod vaguely, so I did it from command line and it works.
I can now save at the location I desire.

So, for now, it's ok.
I asked, only since, I sort of have setup most of my stuff in Fatdog, so I use it more than other flavour (at least at the moment... Laughing).

I'll continue to look for other ways to browse 'not as spot' in Fatdog when I can.

Cheers all.

Last edited by dcung on Sat 11 Aug 2018, 17:45; edited 8 times in total
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dcung

Joined: 13 Jul 2018
Posts: 229
Location: Down Under - 3rd rock from Sun.

PostPosted: Sat 11 Aug 2018, 17:01    Post subject:  

Correction to what I said
dcung wrote:
Not able to do it from GUI (Roxy), only has drop down list not suitable for my need.


In Fatdog64_721, You can do it from GUI.
Not in RightClick/permission. But thru RightClick/Preperties/Permission, and put ticks where you want.
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perdido


Joined: 09 Dec 2013
Posts: 1043
Location: ¿Altair IV , Just north of Eeyore Junction.?

PostPosted: Sat 11 Aug 2018, 17:10    Post subject:  

Excellent, way to go dcung Smile
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
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Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Sat 11 Aug 2018, 19:04    Post subject:  

Thanks, perdido, for the tests to run. ASAIC, I'll do some further exploring and try to get a better handle on this.

mikesLr
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step

Joined: 04 May 2012
Posts: 1096

PostPosted: Sun 12 Aug 2018, 01:37    Post subject:  

Hi cdung,

yes, Fatdog runs the browser as spot by default for security reasons. You can change that setting by changing the definition of BROWSER in [**] control panel > Desktop > Fatdog64 Edit Default Programs. Change "seamonkey-spot" to "seamonkey". This will run seamonkey as the current user (root, usually). You can also replace seamonkey with your fav browser brand.

The downloads folder is handled specially. [**] In Fatdog 72x it's located in /home/spot and linked from /root/Downloads. /home/spot/Downloads is owned by spot and actively coerced to be spot's. Anything inside this download folder is also actively coerced to be spot's.

Security - If user spot runs the browser (default) the browser can't read/write files/folders for which spot has no appropriate permissions. If you want to upload root's files as user spot, copy the files to /root/Downloads and spot will be able to access the copy. You can use any other path for this gimmick, as long as spot can read the path. For instance you can use /tmp BUT DON'T for large files, as you will run out of RAM because /tmp is a RAM file system.

[**] Fatdog-specific feature or procedure.

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dcung

Joined: 13 Jul 2018
Posts: 229
Location: Down Under - 3rd rock from Sun.

PostPosted: Sun 12 Aug 2018, 03:33    Post subject:  

@step

Thanks step. Very handy info there...

From there, I figured out firefox follows same logic.
I just edit the 'firefox-spot', got rid of the '-spot' and I can save anywhere now. i.e. run as root (current user).

Cheers.
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