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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
puppy linux USB install [SOLVED]
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bushrat

Joined: 20 Apr 2018
Posts: 38
Location: Brisbane Australia

PostPosted: Fri 20 Apr 2018, 22:48    Post subject:  puppy linux USB install [SOLVED]
Subject description: creating a bootable Puppy linux USB from Windows 10
 

I'm sure the topic of creating a bootable USB for Puppy Linux has been done to death, but I can't find a solution to my install problem anywhere.

1. I'm using Windows 10 to try to create a Puppy Linux bootable USB
2. USB is 64GB Samsung.
3. My laptop is Acer Aspire ES15, 64-bit, UEFI 'bios', Safe Boot disabled.
4. Downloaded Puppy 64-bit from Linux source.

Every account of how to get from that ISO to a bootable USB goes as follows:
(a) download ISO image.
(b) use any of a deluge of installers e.g. Rufus, Universal USB installer, Unetbootin etc. to simply pick up the ISO image.
(c) press 'OK' and hey presto you'll have a bootable USB...
(d) RUBBISH!

I have tried all USB installers I can think of, using various combinations of partitioning schemes NTFS, FAT, ex-FAT... and all that happens when I check the supposedly 'bootable' USB with Windows disk management tool is a single Primary partition on the USB has been created which simply looks like an extracted copy of the ISO. There is no EFI boot partition on the USB, hence the USB is simply not bootable.
(Yeah, I know to change the boot sequence in Windows between devices - so that's got nothing to do with it.)

Maybe it's the case that some machine's firmware is such that no other bootable O/S is possible? more on that later...
I've previously failed to install Linux Mint on this machine (goes through the install sequence from a DVD I bought from Linux) but ends up in software rendering mode - so that's useless too.

In order to see if my theory is correct I downloaded Tails which is a stand alone USB O/S and wouldn't you know - it installed perfectly (pity I've got no use for it).

So I don't know what's going on here. If anyone has any suggestions on how I can get Puppy-on-a stick installed I'd be grateful.

Thanks.

Last edited by bushrat on Wed 25 Apr 2018, 09:14; edited 3 times in total
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11023
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 20 Apr 2018, 23:46    Post subject:  

Quote:
Downloaded Puppy 64-bit from Linux source.

Not specific enough.
There are several 64bit Puppy versions.
They are all different.

Quote:
(b) use any of a deluge of installers e.g. Rufus, Universal USB installer, Unetbootin etc.

If you did use the installers correctly.

Puppy is not that UEFI bios perfect and not all UEFI bios is the same.

Go into the UEFI bios and disable secure boot
That should let it boot something other than Windows 10.
Windows 10 will still work.

Some UEFI bios has the legacy boot option in their setup.
This is suppose to let it boot the old way.
Enabling it may help.

To boot Puppy on my computers UEFI bios.
I disable secure boot.

Should be able to get into the bios setup by holding the F2 key down just as the computer boots.
Release the F2 key when the bios setup screen pops up.

Look for secure boot setting under something like security section.
May have to do some digging to find the secure boot disable, but it will be someplace in the bios setup.
Just remember to save the change when you close the bios setup.

If Puppy is still not booting.
Give us a specific Puppy version.
A specific install program you used.
Tell us what you specifically see as it tries to boot.

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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bushrat

Joined: 20 Apr 2018
Posts: 38
Location: Brisbane Australia

PostPosted: Sat 21 Apr 2018, 00:00    Post subject:  

I've tried many versions
slacko-6.3.2-uefi
slacko64-6.3.2-uefi
puppy-tahr
ubuntu-16.04.4-desktop-amd64

and thanks for your remark about my use of installers - I've only been around PC's for 30 years....

I also said in my post I had disabled safe/Secure boot so I'm not sure why you went to great lengths to explain it to me?

I have successfully installed Mint and Ubuntu on other machines with no problem so it's not as if I'm attempting some first time effort to install another O/S.

thanks for your reply anyway....
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11023
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sat 21 Apr 2018, 00:10    Post subject:  

Quote:
If Puppy is still not booting.
Give us a specific Puppy version.
A specific install program you used.
Tell us what you specifically see as it tries to boot.

We can only troubleshoot one specific Puppy version at a time.

We have no idea what you see as it boots.
You are our eyes.
We only know what you tell us.
You do what?
You see what?

You would be surprised how many times someone says they did it correctly and it turns out they did not! Shocked

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11023
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sat 21 Apr 2018, 00:12    Post subject:  

Quote:
I've only been around PC's for 30 years....

I must have missed that in your first post.

I got you by one year! Laughing

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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bushrat

Joined: 20 Apr 2018
Posts: 38
Location: Brisbane Australia

PostPosted: Sat 21 Apr 2018, 00:38    Post subject:  

my reply to your last post just vanished?...

in reply to your "what do you see?" the answer is I see nothing.

as I said, when I check the "bootable" USB the installers are supposed to have made, the Windows Disk Management tool reports that a single partition has been created on the USB, reported only as "Healthy, Primary Partition". It should report it as "Healthy, Boot, Primary Partition". Unless the partition is bootable it just won't boot? And that's the core of my problem. The installers are not making a bootable USB. None of them.

So what happens when I cold boot the machine is that Windows installs itself in the usual way totally ignoring the presence of the USB as if it wasn't there.

I can't figure why the installers are not doing their job, and I'm a bit frusrated at this point so I'm giving it a rest.

thanks again for your reply.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11023
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sat 21 Apr 2018, 01:15    Post subject:  

Running in Windows 10.

I downloaded and installed the latest version of Unetbootin for Windows.
Downloaded the xenialpup64-7.5-uefi.iso.

Used Unetbootin to install xenialpup64 7.5 to a usb flash drive.

The flash drive has one partition on it formatted fat32 and flagged boot.
I used fat32 format, because every computer will see that format.
Some computers will not boot a usb flash drive unless it is fat32.
The flash drive was partitioned and formatted by using a separate program.
Did not use the installer to do the partitioning and format.

Boot my computer.
Bring up the boot device option screen.
Select the usb drive.
Get the boot menu from the usb drive.
Select the normal boot of xenialpup64 7.5
Boots to desktop.

I am running from it right now.
Booted OK for me.


Quote:
reports that a single partition has been created on the USB, reported only as "Healthy, Primary Partition". It should report it as "Healthy, Boot, Primary Partition".

That could be the problem it is not flagged as boot.

I will assume you know how to use a partitioning and formatting program to flag a partition boot. You understand that the first partition is flagged boot and the boot files need to be on it.
With only one partition on the usb flash drive.
Where to put stuff is easy to figure out. Laughing Laughing


I never let a installer program partition and format a device.
I always partition and format by using a program made to do that.
The usb flash drive is already partitioned and formatted when I use Unetbootin.

This is what should be on the flash drive if you install xenialpup64 7.5 using Unetbootin.
capture22151.png
 Description   
 Filesize   32.67 KB
 Viewed   404 Time(s)

capture22151.png


_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked

Last edited by bigpup on Sat 21 Apr 2018, 01:37; edited 3 times in total
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bushrat

Joined: 20 Apr 2018
Posts: 38
Location: Brisbane Australia

PostPosted: Sat 21 Apr 2018, 01:24    Post subject:  

thank you for that detailed reply.

I have to go to work right now so can't try the same thing, but will when I return and I'll let you know what happened.
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bushrat

Joined: 20 Apr 2018
Posts: 38
Location: Brisbane Australia

PostPosted: Sat 21 Apr 2018, 07:42    Post subject:  

@bigpup - as Arnie said "I'm back..."

I need to clarify a few points from your previous post because I still can't get a bootable USB.

Quote:

The flash drive has one partition on it formatted fat32 and flagged boot.... The flash drive was partitioned and formatted by using a separate program.


The tricky bit is "and flagged boot" - so would you care to reveal what Windows compatible program you used to flag the USB as 'boot'?

My flash drive now has one partition on it, formatted FAT32, recognised by Windows Disk Management tool as "Healthy, Active, Primary Partition"
I achieved this with Diskpart, but it would appear that an 'active' partition is not necessarily a bootable partition.

I used Unetbootin as the installer and downloaded a fresh copy of the same Xenialpup distro you previously mentioned.

Unetbootin has copied the extracted ISO files but I'm still not achieving a bootable disk.
The boot device is set to the correct option - but when I check the Boot Option Menu only the Windows Boot Manager appears - that is to be expected of course since the USB device remains unbootable....

If you would advise what software you are using to create a bootable flash drive I'd be very grateful, maybe then I'd get somewhere.

Thanks.
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bushrat

Joined: 20 Apr 2018
Posts: 38
Location: Brisbane Australia

PostPosted: Sat 21 Apr 2018, 11:01    Post subject:  

@bigpup

I'm posting this from xenialPup after I got the damn thing to boot up straight from the USB.

It's 1:00 am where I am and I've reached the limit of my perseverance with all things 'computer' for tonight.

I'll get back to you to explain how I did it later on today if you're interested.

Found quite a few problems with Unetbootin even though I downloaded a fresh copy but I'll explain later.

Really happy to have got the thing going even if it's another day out of my life I'll never get back.... LOL.

thanks for all your effort.
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 4148
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Sat 21 Apr 2018, 16:18    Post subject:  

Hallo, bushrat. And 'Welcome' to the kennels.

bushrat wrote:
...and thanks for your remark about my use of installers - I've only been around PC's for 30 years....


bigpup wrote:
I got you by one year! Laughing


Mm. I reckon I can probably add another 6 or 7 to that, 'cos I started frying the old grey cells with these here 'boxes of black magic' right at the very beginning of the home computer revolution, at the start of the '80's.....

It's true that MyCrudSoft initiated a whole raft of extra complications when they introduced UEFI, along with the infamous FastBoot/SecureBoot combo. Certainly for those of us who wanted to use Linux on newer hardware.

---------------------------------------

Personally, the way I would have approached this would have been to download and burn the GParted-Live.iso to a CD (or to another USB 'stick' - you wouldn't have any problems doing that with UNetbootin), then boot from that. I would then have used that to partition & format the USB stick you want to use for Puppy, along with setting the boot flag.

After which procedure I would then have used the UNetbootin installer (Windoze version) to install the Puppy of choice to the USB stick. UNetbootin is one of the few installer tools to install the contents of the Puppy .iso file in such a way that everything is recognisable, and, therefore, bootable. It's fine with most Linux 'full' installs, but it's the Puppy 'frugal' install' that even other Linux software often has trouble with.....in particular, the GRUB2 bootloader that just about all the 'mainstream' distros use (one of the most bloated, over-complicated monstrosities of a thing it's ever been my displeasure to have to use).

It goes without saying, of course, that once you have one Pup up-and-running it's a piece of cake to create as many other Puppy USB installs as you like, given that Pup has all the necessary tools for this procedure 'built-in' as standard. There's even what we call the 'quick & dirty' method, once you're a wee bit more familiar with Pup in general.....which always works, without fail.

Be interested to hear how you did manage to get Pup running. I'm eagerly anticipating your response to all this..!


Mike. Wink

_________________
MY PUPPY PACKAGES | 'Thanks' are always appreciated!
--------------------------------------


Last edited by Mike Walsh on Sat 21 Apr 2018, 20:33; edited 1 time in total
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11023
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sat 21 Apr 2018, 16:22    Post subject:  

Yes! Please report on what you did to get it working!!!!!!
This may help others Very Happy

Your time was spent learning something new.
That is always a good thing!

Get ready to learn Puppy Linux and how it does things. Be opened to learning and do not get into the Windows did not do it that way way of thinking Laughing

Now you know why my computer is in a room that has no windows!
Computers do not want to work when they get thrown out a window
! Shocked Laughing

Unetbootin is a little strange to use until you use it a few times.

I use Gparted to do any partitioning and formatting.
It is in all Puppies.
The programs that come in Windows are too simple and dumbed down.

You can make a Gparted live usb or CD that boots an OS to just use Gparted.
Gparted live CD or USB.

You can download a free version to make your own Gparted live CD or USB.
It is up to date and specifically made to run Gparted.
Info:
http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11023
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sat 21 Apr 2018, 16:33    Post subject:  

If you have 30 plus years working with computers.

Part of Puppy is helping to support it.
Help to test new releases.
Help to solve problems.
Code some new programs or clean up old code, if you know how to code.
Really, anything to help.

We are Puppy!
Resistance is futile!

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 4148
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Sat 21 Apr 2018, 16:58    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
Get ready to learn Puppy Linux and how it does things. Be opened to learning and do not get into the Windows did not do it that way way of thinking Laughing


Agreed. TBH, long-time Windows 'power-users' are actually the very folks who have the most trouble learning Linux, period. Old habits and ways of doing things become so ingrained that they resent the time it takes to learn a whole new way of doing things.

And even long-term Linux users have problems getting the hang of Pup's unique way of doing stuff.

Have a read of this. It's quite insightful, and explains just a few of the concepts Windows users seem to have trouble with when they decide to try and tackle Linux:-

http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm


Mike. Wink

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drunkjedi


Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 897

PostPosted: Sat 21 Apr 2018, 17:37    Post subject:  

Well he has used Ubuntu and mint, so I don't think he is unfamiliar with Linux.

He just have to see how puppy does things differently.

For example, there's no "sudo" this or that.
No apt-get....

Have fun.

Umm.... I've only been around this world for 35 years.... last 3 of them were around computers whenever I am not working..... does that count?

I only once used a "installer" from Windows when I found Puppy, if I remember correctly it was from pendrivelinux.com
Since then I manually create my drives by coping files and installing syslinux bootloader.
Here's an old howto for that
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=96187
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