Puppy Linux Discussion Forum Forum Index Puppy Linux Discussion Forum
Puppy HOME page : puppylinux.com
"THE" alternative forum : puppylinux.info
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The time now is Sun 19 Aug 2018, 06:18
All times are UTC - 4
 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Tahrpup 6.0.6 with the 4.1.30 Kernel & updated apps
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
Page 2 of 3 [32 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3 Next
Author Message
mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2523
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Sat 10 Mar 2018, 17:16    Post subject:  

Hi Mike,

I took 8Geee's post to mean that in future compilations of the series 4 kernels by Linux.org support for the ath5k/9k and the ath ethernet wasn't planned. Of course, we're not limited by that, if by "we" one means that some one or more persons within the group care to compile their own kernel from scratch and is generous enough to publish it.

While someone who knows with he or she is doing can easily compile a kernel for Puppies using the kernel-kit after modifying the config file, unless I've got it all wrong (a likely possibility) there seem to ba about 7,000 lines of code involved in compiling and I would think before modifying the config file a basic understanding of what each of those lines does would seem prudent. That seemed a little daunting.

By the way, have you tried running Tahrpup 6.0.6 with the 4.1.30 kernel on your Dell Lappie? Was it able to make use of the 'ath5k' driver?

Thanks,

mikesLr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 12574
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sat 10 Mar 2018, 23:51    Post subject:  

Hello mikeslr and all.

I apologize for the late reply. Recently, I have been busy compiling and testing
csvfix (a csv processor) on Puppy -- to beef up Puppy's databasing capacity --,
and assembling and testing the "youtube-viewer" perl script for a member on the
French side. I mention it in case there would be interest in those apps.

If I may add a few infos:
-- the alternative kernel for the xenialPup-7.0.6 is the 4.1.2-EmSee-32-pae kernel,
i.e. a 4.1.2 kernel 32 bits with PAE capability, built by Stemsee. I found it
amongst the kernels he built during his research here.

-- the Spectre malware cannot affect the Linux OS; the Meltdowm cannot affect
computers with an AMD CPU. So if you are running Puppy on a computer
powered with an AMD chip, two-thirds of the danger is already mitigated.

The third member of that trio is blocked by using the no-[java]script extension in
Firefox and similar browsers, which is good "computer hygiene" in any case.
[Above sentence corrected, 2018-03-11, 18h17.] I am not sure if this "no-script"
extension exists for the family of Chrome browsers. This info I hold from one of
our forum members.

-- some ARM CPUs (e.g. Raspberry machines) are unaffected. Source: the
subtitle "Current CPUs Unaffected by Spectre and Meltdown" at
https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/computers-unaffected-meltdown-spectre
However... https://developer.arm.com/support/security-update

-- One thing that we tend to overlook to is that those malwares are somewhat
theoretical. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but they were discovered in The
Register
webzine's computer lab
, so they are not in the wild yet, AFAIK. Also,
from what I have read, it is apparently utterly difficult to program them to achieve
the spying they are said to be capable of.

-- Because of that difficulty, it will likely be a while before Intel or anyone comes up
with a efficient corrective. As we all know, a few rushed attempts -- from MicroSoft,
in particular -- ended in failure.

BFN.

_________________
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
Siempre será canción nueva... (V. Jara, Manifiesto)

Last edited by musher0 on Sun 11 Mar 2018, 18:20; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2523
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Sun 11 Mar 2018, 13:46    Post subject: meltdown, smeltdown  

Hi musher0,

Apology unnecessary, but accepted.

I agree. The theoretical thread of meltdown and spectre are just that, theoretical; even less possible on Puppies in general, and especially Puppies running web-browsers as Spot. Part of the reason I'm not motivated to undertake the learning curve required to compile a Kernel, regardless of how easy those who already 'speak the language' consider it to be. [Stemsee's recent revision of ubuild ran about 1800 lines of code].

Puppies are an 'after-market product'. Nobody manufactures computers with Puppy as the intended operating system. It's niche in the world of computing is to provide an operating system enabling one's computer to perform satisfactorily as software (especially web-browsers) continues to evolve; defraying the need and expense of replacing a computer as long as possible and the environmental impact of relegating old computers to land-fills, leeched toxic materials or the costs of recycling.

I have little for concern relatively new computers capable of running relatively new Puppies. Peebee, at least, continues to publish new Kernels capable of handling current rich graphic content while, coincidently, keeping pace with security insights. albeit he publishes them for his own projects, changing kernels is an easy procedure. At the other end are 'rather old' computers for which neither an easy fix nor an expectation of long life seems likely. It is only in the middle-range that I consider the axiom 'If something can be done, it should be done' comes into play.

For those, it would be nice were there a new compilation of the 3.16 or 4.1 kernels.

mikesLr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 12274
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Sun 11 Mar 2018, 14:13    Post subject:  

musher0 wrote:
-- the Spectre malware cannot affect the Linux OS;

Citation please.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 12574
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sun 11 Mar 2018, 17:57    Post subject:  

rcrsn51 wrote:
musher0 wrote:
-- the Spectre malware cannot affect the Linux OS;

Citation please.

Hello, rcrsn51.

Thanks for calling me on this. Following your short remark, I did more research on
the subject.

IMO, the following is the most serious information round-up on the subject.
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/414786/how-to-mitigate-the-spectre-and-meltdown-vulnerabilities-on-linux-systems

In short,
-- There seems to be a consensus around the fact that AMD CPUs approach zero
vulnerability to Spectre and Meltdown malwares; They are not totally protected, but
they seem to be less exposed than the Intel CPUs.

-- Again a consensus around the use of ad-blockers and no-[java]script extensions
or add-ons in all browsers, and avoidance of sites that use javascript.

Everybody understands, I hope, that javascript, the computer language, is not at
fault. But it would be an easier vector with which to trigger those CPU vulnerabilities.
I say "easier" because it is not the only vector. Perhaps I did not dig deep enough,
but I found virtually no information on what those other vectors can be.

-- As to the Linux OS being protected, I stand corrected. If well-known Linux kernel
maintainer Greg Kroah-Hartman, as well as developers at RedHat, Debian and
Ubuntu, have been composing patches against the Spectre and Meltdown malwares,
then I must conclude that the latter potentially have an effect on the Linux OS.

I apologize for inadvertently contributing to the confusion on the subject.

Puppyists may also wish to read the wikipedia article on the matter, at
url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectre_(security_vulnerability)[/url].

BFN.

_________________
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
Siempre será canción nueva... (V. Jara, Manifiesto)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 12574
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sun 11 Mar 2018, 18:09    Post subject: Re: meltdown, smeltdown  

mikeslr wrote:
(...)
At the other end are 'rather old' computers for which neither an easy fix nor an expectation of long life seems likely. It is only in the middle-range that I consider the axiom 'If something can be done, it should be done' comes into play.
(...)

Hello mikeslr.

As an indirect counter-echo to your sentence above, here is something that I
understand as saying that CPU chips built before 2010 are somewhat immune to the
Meltdown malware:
Quote:
Meltdown is a CPU vulnerability. It works by using modern processors' out-of-order
execution to read arbitrary kernel-memory location. This can include personal
data and passwords. This functionality has been an important performance feature.
It [i]s present in many modern processors, most noticeably in 2010 and later Intel processors.
Source: http://www.zdnet.com/article/the-linux-vs-meltdown-and-spectre-battle-continues,
top of the article.

BFN.

_________________
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
Siempre será canción nueva... (V. Jara, Manifiesto)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 4024
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Sun 11 Mar 2018, 19:54    Post subject:  

Hello, Mike.

mikeslr wrote:
By the way, have you tried running Tahrpup 6.0.6 with the 4.1.30 kernel on your Dell Lappie? Was it able to make use of the 'ath5k' driver?


No, mate. I've performed the swap on the 'big' Compaq desktop, and everything's running nicely (apart from a minor 'hiccup'; it seems to 'hang' during the shutdown process occasionally, but I'm not entirely convinced the kernel swap's responsible for that....I make so many modifications to my Pups, it's a wonder they keep running sometimes..!)

Both Tahr and Xenial on the Compaq are currently running the 4.1.30 kernel. And yes; it does seem a bit more responsive.

The Xenialpup kernel swap for the Dell will be restricted to Xenialpup itself. I cannot get Tahr 6.0.6 to even run from a LiveCD, for some reason; there seems to be some sort of basic incompatibility there which I just can't work round. Can't be the UEFI stuff, 'cos Xenial is using the same setup......and it works fine on the Dell.

But if Xenial will run the NetGear CardBus wireless adapter when I carry out the minor 'surgery' this week, then I guess that ought to answer your question, yes?

Sorry it won't be a more exact test than that. I do apologise for the old girl's 'inconsistencies'..!

Mike. Wink

_________________
MY PUPPY PACKAGES | 'Thanks' are always appreciated!
--------------------------------------

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
tallboy


Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 1009
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Sun 11 Mar 2018, 23:15    Post subject:  

Mike wrote:
I cannot get Tahr 6.0.6 to even run from a LiveCD, for some reason; there seems to be some sort of basic incompatibility there which I just can't work round.


Thank you for that info, Mike, it was lodged somewhere in the back of my braincell #2 that some puppies had problems with that.

_________________
True freedom is a live Puppy on a multisession CD/DVD.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 4024
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Thu 15 Mar 2018, 18:27    Post subject:  

Hiya, tallboy.

tallboy wrote:
Mike wrote:
I cannot get Tahr 6.0.6 to even run from a LiveCD, for some reason; there seems to be some sort of basic incompatibility there which I just can't work round.


Thank you for that info, Mike, it was lodged somewhere in the back of my braincell #2 that some puppies had problems with that.


2 of 'em? Oh, if only.... Ooh, I am so jealous! Laughing Laughing

A-hem. Moving on.....

No, it's strange. Tahr 606 is the only Pup I've never been able to run on the old Dell lappie; Dell's stuff is normally very Linux-friendly indeed.

Even in the early days, the CDs would always boot. I simply wasn't aware of the magic incantation to make the graphics work (at that time).

"All together now..."

Code:
i915.modeset=0


.....tacked on the end of the bootloader's kernel line. It works...

Never had any problems with Tahr 605 (well, 6.0 CE as it first was when I installed it on the Dell, just before Xmas 2014). It was the very first Pup to boot on the Dell without needing any tweaks; everything just worked.....

But, er, 606? Complete mystery, mate; no idea what's happening there. (Mind you, I haven't tried that hard; there's hundreds of Pups that will boot on there without issue. Why struggle unnecessarily?)


Mike. Wink

_________________
MY PUPPY PACKAGES | 'Thanks' are always appreciated!
--------------------------------------

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2523
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Thu 15 Mar 2018, 22:08    Post subject: Re Problem with 6.0.6 on 'old Dells'  

Hi Tallboy, Mike Walsh,

I'm not sure why there's a difference between Tahrpup 6.0.5 and 6.0.6 on these machines. So I'm not going to make suggestions on how to fix it.

But you can have pretty much the same Puppy as this one by doing the following:

1. Boot into Tahrpup 6.0.5.
2. Via PPM install the latest openssl if not already present.
3. Install Remasterx, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=780345#780345
4. Download, unpack and read the instructions regarding "Updates to Puppy Standard Apps + some other stuff", http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=982927#982927
4.a. Optional: You'll find vicmz' Openbox Plus for Tahrpup and Openbox Themes here: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=703730#703730
5, Remaster, using Remasterx.

See if it runs. Then change kernels, but copy the original ones to a folder "just in case". The difference between 6.0.5 and 6.0.6 may have to do with their different drivers and firmware.

The 4.1.30 Kernel I used was from here: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=949679#949679.

Suggest trying the Alternate 4.1.30 kernel by stemsee musher0 mentioned: http://augras.eu/puppy_linux/musher0/xenialPup-706-k41/distro/AutreNoyau/ALTxenialPup706-PAEkrnl+zdrv.zip after unpacking the zip.

If you find a new kernel which works, remasterX again.

mikesLr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
tallboy


Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 1009
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Fri 16 Mar 2018, 19:54    Post subject:  

Thank you, mikeslr.
_________________
True freedom is a live Puppy on a multisession CD/DVD.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
8Geee


Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 1630
Location: N.E. USA

PostPosted: Fri 16 Mar 2018, 20:19    Post subject:  

I'm glad to see I'm wrong about the ath 5k/9k & eth0 drivers in k4.x.y setups. Ubiquitous is a good word. Thanx muchly.

Regards
8Geee

_________________
Linux user #498913

Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
xyz

Joined: 17 Mar 2018
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Thu 22 Mar 2018, 01:27    Post subject: Tahrpup 6.0.6 installed by Grub4dos  

Tahrpup 6.0.6 installed by Grub4dos. Not special feedback to do. That means it is a good version, not slow as some kernels where you feel like hanbrake is preventing your Puppy Linux to be fast.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
Posts: 223

PostPosted: Sat 31 Mar 2018, 04:16    Post subject:  

Looking forward to trying this on a Dell Inspiron 6400 and see how it goes.

From the brief time I had played with it , it seemed very solid.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
Posts: 223

PostPosted: Sat 31 Mar 2018, 21:21    Post subject:  

Mikeslr thank you for this spin - running pretty well so far on this Dell with a series 4 kernel all sound and video and wireless working smoothly a good daily workhorse.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 2 of 3 [32 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3 Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.1738s ][ Queries: 14 (0.0115s) ][ GZIP on ]