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Boot up search for Tahr puppy files takes too long
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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 12329
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sat 25 Nov 2017, 11:56    Post subject: Re: Perhaps you need to learn how to communicate  

To stay off-topic: Wink
mikeslr wrote:

(...) To quote or paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld: "There are things we know. There are
things we don't know. And there are things we don't know we don't know."
(...)mikesLr
Which reminds me of: "All our knowledge, past, present and future, is nothing in
view of what we will never know." [Evgueni Evtouchenko, Wild Berries of Siberia]

Back on topic:
@nubc:
Please, nobody is trying to scold you.

There exists a boot loader in the ISO image of any Puppy.

For the tahrpup-6.0.5, it's isolinux. I just checked.

This is its configuration file:
Quote:

default puppy
display boot.msg
prompt 1
timeout 50

F1 boot.msg
F2 help.msg
F3 help2.msg

label puppy
kernel vmlinuz
append initrd=initrd.gz pmedia=cd

I have never done this, but I am pretty sure that we could add more boot parameters
after "pmedia=cd", such as psubdir. Then we could reburn the CD and hopefully
isolinux will locate the subdir quickly.

Any isolinux expert, please take a step forward?! Smile

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musher0
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« Il ne faut pas multiplier les entités logiques sans nécessité. » (Ockham)
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nubc


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 1932
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sat 25 Nov 2017, 12:48    Post subject:  

Making progress. I still say the CD is the bootloader, or perhaps the boot device. I wish the boot would follow the fsckme.flg file that keeps track of the location of the files found during the last boot.

http://www.syslinux.org/wiki/index.php?title=Config
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 10601
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sat 25 Nov 2017, 17:17    Post subject:  

You are basically booting with a live Puppy CD.
The boot loader files are on the CD.
The only files it will look for on a hard drive are the save and the main Puppy sfs if you put it on the hard drive.

Not sure why you put everything in a Directory on the hard drive.
The better option would be when making the save for the first time it also asks if you want the Puppy main sfs files also put on the hard drive.
That is suppose to make it boot quicker, because the hard drive access is faster than a CD drive.

Try this just to see what happens.

Copy the Tahrpup save and the Tahrpup sfs and zdrv sfs onto the first partition of the hard drive.
Just have them on the partition and not in any directory.

What happens??

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When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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nubc


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 1932
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sat 25 Nov 2017, 19:32    Post subject:  

All three files have been on the hard drive since the first "installation." For maybe the first 10 boots, the 3 Tahr files were not in a directory. Makes no difference. In fact, it was you who advised me to keep the files in their own Tahr directory, like you keep yours. Every time I change a file name, it claims next boot will be faster, but it's not faster at all. I put the three Tahr files in a directory because two Slacko files also reside here (in a Slacko directory).
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 10601
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sun 26 Nov 2017, 09:32    Post subject:  

I still think there is something you are not telling us, but i have no idea, what it is, at this point.

Tahrpup was being developed, around the time there was a lot of discussion, about how much searching for Puppy files would be done, when booting with a live Puppy CD/DVD.
Should it only search one directory(folder) deep?
Two directory(folder) deep?
Just search the entire hard drive, every possible place.

Tahrpup could be using the option to search every possible place on the hard drive.
That would take a lot of time with a 4TB drive.

Slacko may be using the option to search only two directories(folders) deep.

Can you put Puppy on a USB flash drive and boot with that?
It can be written to.
That way, you could modify boot options in the boot loader.
Also, you can frugal install any number of Puppies to a USB flash drive and use Grub4dos bootloader, installed on the flash drive, to boot it.

Example:
A 32GB usb flash drive with frugal installs of Puppy and Grub4dos as boot loader.
The menu.lst
Quote:
# menu.lst produced by grub4dosconfig-v1.9.2
color blue/cyan yellow/blue white/black cyan/black
#splashimage=/splash.xpm
timeout 10
default 0

# Frugal installed Puppy

title Puppy artfulpup 17.10.01 (sdd1/artfulpup171001+4)
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /artfulpup171001+4/initrd.gz
kernel /artfulpup171001+4/vmlinuz psubdir=artfulpup171001+4 pmedia=usbflash pfix=fsck
initrd /artfulpup171001+4/initrd.gz

title Puppy tahr 6.0.6 (sdd1/tahr606uefi)
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /tahr606uefi/initrd.gz
kernel /tahr606uefi/vmlinuz psubdir=tahr606uefi pmedia=usbflash pfix=fsck
initrd /tahr606uefi/initrd.gz

title Puppy xenialpup 7.0.8.1 (sdd1/xenialpup7081uefi)
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /xenialpup7081uefi/initrd.gz
kernel /xenialpup7081uefi/vmlinuz psubdir=xenialpup7081uefi pmedia=usbflash pfix=fsck
initrd /xenialpup7081uefi/initrd.gz

title Puppy precise 5.7.1 (sdd2/precise571)
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /precise571/initrd.gz
kernel /precise571/vmlinuz psubdir=precise571 pmedia=usbflash pfix=fsck
initrd /precise571/initrd.gz

title Puppy xenialpup64 7.0.8.5 (sdd2/xenialpup647085uefi)
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /xenialpup647085uefi/initrd.gz
kernel /xenialpup647085uefi/vmlinuz psubdir=xenialpup647085uefi pmedia=usbflash pfix=fsck
initrd /xenialpup647085uefi/initrd.gz

title Puppy xenialpup64 7.0.8.6 (sdd2/xenialpup647086)
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /xenialpup647086/initrd.gz
kernel /xenialpup647086/vmlinuz psubdir=xenialpup647086 pmedia=usbflash pfix=fsck
initrd /xenialpup647086/initrd.gz

# Full installed Linux

# Advanced Menu
title Advanced menu
configfile /menu-advanced.lst
commandline

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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foxpup


Joined: 29 Jul 2016
Posts: 463
Location: europa near northsea

PostPosted: Sun 26 Nov 2017, 11:58    Post subject: booting with usb  

On an efi machine I used to boot puppies with grub4dos on an usb. It seems to me this could be a good way for this 4T HDD machine (I didn't know that exists, mine has "only" 256M SSD !) also. It seems strange to me to boot from (slow) CD every time unless your machine cannot boot otherwise.

On my usb are grldr, menu.lst and x maps with the kernel and init of each x puppy in it. I just copy kernel and init from the iso's.
On my SSD I have a partition (sda9) with x maps named exactly as the x maps on my usb and containing the main.sfs, and other system .sfs if necessary, of each x puppy. The pupsave(s) for each x puppy are also placed in these directories. I use pupsave.fs, a file; I guess a pupsave directory would be placed in the same place.
I almost forgot: grub4dos installed mbr on the usb.
The menu.lst on the usb has a kernel lines with psubdir and pdev1=sda9 boot parameters as in my example in the second message of this post. You can add it in the menu.lst. First let grub4dos create a draft menu.lst.
I had to make changes in bios to make booting from usb the first boot option.

The mere size of your harddrive may well be the cause of the "long" boots. So I would certainly try if adding the pdev1 boot parameter helps. You can try it at the flash screen.

Btw
Quote:
Puppy bootloaders won't work.
I think grub2 will work on your large HDD though and it can boot puppy. You may consider installing it, if it is not on your HDD yet.
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nubc


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 1932
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon 27 Nov 2017, 15:41    Post subject:  

If you don't count the sda1 partition, the sought file, tahrsave-605, is only one directory deep. I think grub4dos does not recognize GPT partitions. I have been told grub2 works with GPT partitions. As far as size goes to explain the long boot, sda1 is only 30 GB. I see grub2 is available through PPM from an Ubuntu repo. What's the diff betwwen grub2-common_2.02 (a durectory) and grub_2.02 (a file)? Would there happen to be a .pet for grub2?

bigpup, what's actually on the thumb drive for each frugal install?

EDIT: I installed grub2 with PPM. Not only is it nowhere to be found in the menu tree, it can't be called from urxvt console.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 10601
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Tue 28 Nov 2017, 06:58    Post subject:  

Quote:
bigpup, what's actually on the thumb drive for each frugal install?

What is normally in a frugal install of a Puppy.
Each Puppy version, in it's own directory, with all the files from the iso in it.

I do them the easy way by using this program from a running Puppy.
Yapi
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=107601

I usually use the option to right click on a Puppy iso and select open with.... or send to.... yapi.
Yapi starts already with the iso selected and goes into the install process.
(This also makes sure the name of the directory, each frugal install is in, is a name that Grub4dos config recognizes.)

After installing to the USB drive.
When you run Grub4dos Bootloader Config
Select the USB drive as the location to install Grub4dos.
Select search only within this device.
(See image)

When you boot the USB drive
The normal Grub4dos boot menu pops up and select from it as to what to boot.
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I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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foxpup


Joined: 29 Jul 2016
Posts: 463
Location: europa near northsea

PostPosted: Wed 29 Nov 2017, 06:44    Post subject: installing grub2  

nubc wrote:
As far as size goes to explain the long boot, sda1 is only 30 GB.
I mean the size of 4T could be a problem, because puppy (init or kernel?) may be looking for the main.sfs on the entire disc. To narrow down this search, I think it is important to use kernel options like this:
Code:
 subdir=/DpupStretchOsc/ pdev1=sda9

Quote:
I think grub4dos does not recognize GPT partitions.
I am not sure, because one can put grub4dos on an usb and boot a puppy on the GPT harddisc. It may have difficulties if the harddisk is too large.
Quote:
I installed grub2 with PPM. Not only is it nowhere to be found in the menu tree, it can't be called from urxvt console.
Maybe you still have to install grub2, with a command like grub-install <partition> ? I would recommend to make a new small boot partition for this, vfat/fat32 with boot/esp flag.
I got grub by accident, installing Fedora Games on my harddisc. Embarassed It turned out all right.
Grub2 is also in the efi partition of an efi build, as bootloader. It is often called bootx64.efi. Look for efi.img in the iso of a puppy-uefi.iso and extract it. You can drag the content of efi.img to your new small boot partition and add a grub.cfg.

Your new boot-system on the small partition should show up in your bios where you can put it top of the list.
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nubc


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 1932
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri 01 Dec 2017, 16:17    Post subject:  

The reason I asked what exactly was on the thumb drive was to make a decision on the size of the drive. I still don't have any idea how much space might be taken up by two frugal installs, especially when one Puppy version seems to auto-adjust size according to its needs. Right now Slacko is 2.2 GB and Tahr is 1.0 GB, for a total of 3.2 GB. I'm inclined to choose an 8- GB flash drive. Be advised I will not be using YAPI. Just a reminder, I have been a full install Puppy user for 10 years, and I am not a fan of frugal installs. Meaning, I don't know much about frugal installs. Both Slacko and Tahr are 32-bit versions.
Last edited by nubc on Fri 01 Dec 2017, 16:43; edited 1 time in total
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 10601
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 01 Dec 2017, 16:40    Post subject:  

That size all depends on what you add to the Puppy.
If using a save file how big you made it.

Just the frugal install with no save and no added stuff is going to be around 300 to 500 MB.

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I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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nubc


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 1932
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri 01 Dec 2017, 17:32    Post subject: Re: installing grub2  

foxpup wrote:
Maybe you still have to install grub2, with a command like grub-install <partition> ? I would recommend to make a new small boot partition for this, vfat/fat32 with boot/esp flag.


How small is "small"?

The boot partition is inside sda1? Or inserted as the first partition? How will new boot partition be designated, as the new sda1?
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foxpup


Joined: 29 Jul 2016
Posts: 463
Location: europa near northsea

PostPosted: Mon 04 Dec 2017, 11:04    Post subject: Re: installing grub2  

nubc wrote:
foxpup wrote:
Maybe you still have to install grub2, with a command like grub-install <partition> ? I would recommend to make a new small boot partition for this, vfat/fat32 with boot/esp flag.


How small is "small"?

The boot partition is inside sda1? Or inserted as the first partition? How will new boot partition be designated, as the new sda1?

Sorry for being so short.
You should have some unallocated space on your hard disc to make an extra boot partition. You can check with Gparted.
In gparted you can also see what is your boot partition now. It should be flagged boot/esp. There should be an EFI directory with subdirectories if you have a look.
You can decide to add grub in this partition, if it does not have grub already in it. Maybe in one of the subdirectories of EFI you already have grub (look for grub.cfg). If not you can install it in the partition and after installation you should find it as a new subdirectory.
You could also decide to install grub in its own boot partition. Then you have to have some unallocated space on your hard disc to make an extra partition. Gparted will give it an appropiate number (sda3?). 100M is enough, make it 256M to be safe. Also give it a label and name to better identify the partition. Then you install grub to it. You could "populate" it with another bootloader, like rEFInd, also. Fatdog for example uses both refind and grub next to each other.
The first time I got some pretty good and useful understanding of efi and booting was after reading this from Barry:
http://bkhome.org/news/201612/quirky-installed-on-asus-e200ha.html
Barry uses syslinux as bootloader here.
After installing grub to the new boot partition, you will have to go into bios to choose grub as the first boot. Installing grub in a new partition makes it more sure that the bios will find the grub as a new possibility for booting.
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nubc


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 1932
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon 04 Dec 2017, 18:21    Post subject:  

Assuming that you know I wish to install grub2 to the hard drive in order to do a full install of Tahr 605 to sda1 (30 GB partition), there is no reason for an EFI directory to be present on this hard drive. Partition sda1 has been flagged boot partition from a previous full install that failed because legacy grub does not work with GPT partitions. (The remnants of that failed install have been manually removed.) A Slacko directory, a Tahr directory, and a fsckme.flg file are present on sda1 and nothing else. There is a boot directory in both the Slacko and Tahr systems. in both, the boot directory contains a grub directory and a system.map file. Both grub directories contain only a single file gfxblacklist.txt and nothing else.
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foxpup


Joined: 29 Jul 2016
Posts: 463
Location: europa near northsea

PostPosted: Mon 04 Dec 2017, 19:20    Post subject:  

nubc wrote:
Assuming that you know I wish to install grub2 to the hard drive in order to do a full install of Tahr 605 to sda1 (30 GB partition), there is no reason for an EFI directory to be present on this hard drive.
Hi nubc
At the moment you boot Slacko and Tahr from CD, probably with syslinux, or whatever is on the CD. That works because it boots from the classic small medium.
I propose to you to boot from your hard disc. Since it is GPT, very large and your computer is an EFI machine, I suppose, your first choice to do that is grub2 in EFI. Grub2 and not legacy grub.
The "boot installation" in EFI should be on a separate small partition, and not in a big partition like 30G. I do not know however if this is absolutely necessary, but it is always done like that. It has to be on vfat anyway to be detected as a boot partition; the flags esp/boot are not enough.
The remnants of earlier attempts to install on and to boot from your hard disc are unlikely to work.
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