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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Brexit Pup - Released 16th October 2017
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ETP


Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 1029
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu 19 Oct 2017, 08:37    Post subject: Brexit Pup - Released 16th October 2017  

Hi musher0,
You read my mind!
Please see PM.

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Kennels
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 3141
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Thu 19 Oct 2017, 13:30    Post subject:  

Hey, musher0.

Sorry for last night's diatribe. I'd been struggling with Chrome 62 all day. trying to 'tame the beast', and bring it to heel. I was rather frustrated, to say the least, and getting more than a bit cheesed-off with Nanny Google's 'We know better than you' attitude.

I was taking a break, and just having a browse (as you do!), and came across ETP's thread, and.....well, the frustration just came boiling out onto the 'paper', as it were.

The <*rant*> is well & truly over, mon ami..!

@ETP:- Sorry for hijacking your thread, mate..... Embarassed Eee, things were so much simpler back in the days of 'ChromeBook Pup', weren't they? Laughing


Mike. Wink

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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 11165
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Thu 19 Oct 2017, 15:26    Post subject: Re: Brexit Pup - Released 16th October 2017  

ETP wrote:
Hi musher0,
You read my mind!
Please see PM.

Got it, thanks.

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musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"Logical entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity." | |
« Il ne faut pas multiplier les entités logiques sans nécessité. » (Ockham)
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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 11165
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Thu 19 Oct 2017, 15:31    Post subject:  

Mike Walsh wrote:
Hey, musher0.

Sorry for last night's diatribe. I'd been struggling with Chrome 62 all day. trying to 'tame the beast', and bring it to heel. I was rather frustrated, to say the least, and getting more than a bit cheesed-off with Nanny Google's 'We know better than you' attitude.

I was taking a break, and just having a browse (as you do!), and came across ETP's thread, and.....well, the frustration just came boiling out onto the 'paper', as it were.

The <*rant*> is well & truly over, mon ami..!

@ETP:- Sorry for hijacking your thread, mate..... Embarassed Eee, things were so much simpler back in the days of 'ChromeBook Pup', weren't they? Laughing

Mike. Wink

No problem! Smile

If you want to mumble and grumble some more about Chrome62, belham2
is dedicating a thread to it!

BFN.

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musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"Logical entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity." | |
« Il ne faut pas multiplier les entités logiques sans nécessité. » (Ockham)
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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 11165
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Thu 19 Oct 2017, 18:20    Post subject:  

@ETP: Test report

Don't take any of the following personally! Wink

The ISO you provided installed and booted ok through grub4dos' menu.lst.

terminal font too wide (probably a fixed-width font is not specified in the
.Xdefaults or .Xresources files?). Still workable, though.

jwm cannot do full screen on my 1980x1080 monitor. jwm's idea of full
screen on my monitor is probably 1024x768, always starting from top left.
It's been that way since the new jwm version.

Which is why I installed wmii and pekwm from PPM (which works fine). It
turns out both of these WM's can do a "full" full screen with any window.

However computer froze when I tried to create the wmii menu. Of course
that may be caused by any number of things. I'll have to revisit that bug.

Execution of anything is as slow as molasses in winter with this 4.9 version
64-bit kernel.

Changing gtk and jwm themes, also font and font sizes, is ok.

Pupsave file created without a glitch.

I did not try the browser, but there was a valid ethernet connection (the
connection traybar icon was blinking every once and a while).

Superficially, French-Canadian localisation appears to be ok. I didn't write
anything of any length, though; more testing is needed.

Internet time sync also ok.

That's it for now. Have a great day!.

~~~~~~~~~~
PS. My hardware listing is attached.
lshw.lst.zip
Description 
zip

 Download 
Filename  lshw.lst.zip 
Filesize  866 Bytes 
Downloaded  13 Time(s) 

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musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"Logical entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity." | |
« Il ne faut pas multiplier les entités logiques sans nécessité. » (Ockham)
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april


Joined: 14 Sep 2013
Posts: 1009
Location: Off Lizard Island for a bit

PostPosted: Fri 20 Oct 2017, 04:35    Post subject:  

So ETP Any answers on my queries?
Looks like a remake of Precise with 64 bit and a new dialog program
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ETP


Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 1029
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri 20 Oct 2017, 06:44    Post subject: Brexit Pup - Released 16th October 2017  

April, I did reply at the bottom of the previous page but in the light of your comments together with musher0's comments
regarding his test on the WoofCE produced ISO used as a base for Brexit Pup, now intend to add a new recommendation
to the original post in this thread.

You have both found that this later kernel (k 4.9.15) runs like a sloth on mogadon on older hardware.
That does not bode well for Brexit's Internet TV features.

To avoid further disappointment I will suggest that Brexit requires a minimum of an i3 CPU or the AMD equivalent.
Thanks to you both for testing.

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Kennels
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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 11165
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Fri 20 Oct 2017, 11:27    Post subject:  

@ETP

Thanks for the confirmation.

Do you think the speed issue could be solved by a 32-bit edition with, say,
a 4.1 kernel? Or is it a waste of time to even think about it?

TIA for any pointer.

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musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"Logical entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity." | |
« Il ne faut pas multiplier les entités logiques sans nécessité. » (Ockham)
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ETP


Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 1029
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri 20 Oct 2017, 14:52    Post subject: Brexit Pup - Released 16th October 2017  

Hi musher0,

It seems to be the case that "Puppy" in general is slowing down with the newer kernels.

As an example I was shocked at just how much slower Barry's Quirky Xerus64 8.3 k 4.11.12 issued
in July 2017 was in comparison to to his Quirky Xerus64 8.0 Final k 4.4.7 issued April 2016.

The earlier Pup was faster running a full install from a USB2 stick than the later Pup installed on a USB3 stick.

They were full installs and of course you cannot get faster than running entirely in RAM.
Over the years I have also observed that for any given 64-bit hardware the 32-bit version of
any given Pup will in general out perform its 64-bit version.

We are currently between a rock and a hard place with browsers insisting on the latest kernels & security updates
which require faster machines and the need to keep Puppy running on old hardware.
To get back to your question:

Once you have a stick available you may want to try TV/PVR Pup V4 with your Turion 64X2 TL52.
That is a 32-bit Pup based on Xenial 7.0.4 with the k 4.1.31 (i686) kernel. It runs entirely in RAM.

In the release notes for that I recommended:
Quote:
Whilst this is a 32-bit Pup it's HD features really require a quick 64-bit PC (i3 or above), DDR3 memory and a largish monitor.
A wired connection is also recommended together with an Internet connection download speed of at least 10Mbps.

That was to ensure that the BBC HD TV streams could be handled.
Outside of the UK that panel can be toggled off by an option on the desktop menu.
That will then give you something very similar to Brexit with OB plus vlc & kodi.
The latest Chromium pet for that is 60.0.3112.78 which I do not propose to update further.
Palemoon & Thunderbird are updatable to their latest versions.

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Kennels
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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 11165
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Fri 20 Oct 2017, 16:17    Post subject:  

Thanks, EDP.

I might give your TV/PVR Pup a go when I have a minute. (I have a
translation to return Monday noon.)

Since you built this Brexit Pup, perhaps you know this:
is there a way to locate a 4.1 or even a 4.4 (ubuntu's original choice for
xenial) 32-bit kernel and swap it for 666philb's 4.9 in his 32-bit xenialPup?

I know that the 32-bit kernels are swappable without penalty for the
DPupStretch-7, but maybe it's the exception that confirms the rule?

For example, I switched my original 3.14 32-bit kernel (from late March)
with OscarTalks 4.4 kernel (from late Sept.) and then back to a 3.16.43
LTS kernel and this Dpup-7 kept humming happily. No glitches whatsoever.

Thanks in advance for any lead.

~~~~~~~~~~
In conclusion, if I may, a reaction to "Puppyists being caught between a
rock and a hard place because they have older computers trying to run
monster browsers", NOT to quote you verbatim!!!

-=> This may be a "business opportunity", so to speak, for the smaller
browsers, links2, NetSurf, qupzilla and the like, to fill the gap and show
their full capacities.
~~~~~~~~~~

Have a great day!

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musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"Logical entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity." | |
« Il ne faut pas multiplier les entités logiques sans nécessité. » (Ockham)
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ETP


Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 1029
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri 20 Oct 2017, 16:37    Post subject: Brexit Pup - Released 16th October 2017  

@ musher0,

Sorry, but I am not familiar with swapping kernels. 666philb has of late been active
again on the forum and would be best placed to answer that question.
Perhaps you could send him a pm?

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Kennels
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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 11165
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Fri 20 Oct 2017, 16:39    Post subject: Re: Brexit Pup - Released 16th October 2017  

ETP wrote:
@ musher0,

Sorry, but I am not familiar with swapping kernels. 666philb has of late been active
again on the forum and would be best placed to answer that question.
Perhaps you could send him a pm?

Has he? That's great news! Thanks. Will do.

BFN.

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musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"Logical entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity." | |
« Il ne faut pas multiplier les entités logiques sans nécessité. » (Ockham)
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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 11165
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sat 21 Oct 2017, 00:02    Post subject:  

Hello all.

A bit off-thread but still related:
a xenialPup-7.0.8 32-bits with kernel 4.1 is now available here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=971619&sort=lastpost#971619

BFN.

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musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"Logical entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity." | |
« Il ne faut pas multiplier les entités logiques sans nécessité. » (Ockham)
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 2588
Location: holland

PostPosted: Sat 21 Oct 2017, 18:08    Post subject:  

Maybe it helps someone, I have extremely slow boot with any kernel 4.8 or higher on a HP compaq 6710b laptop and found solution here:
https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1689914#p1689914
Adding this to kernel boot command line solves the problem for me:
Code:
video=SVIDEO-1:d

Seems like more older machines are affected by this kernel bug?

More reports:
https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/51703
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98810

Fred
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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 11165
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sat 21 Oct 2017, 20:06    Post subject:  

I just tried it. Is your trick supposed to do anything. fredx?

I still have to wait 15 seconds fro deadbeef to run, whereas on the xenialPup with the
4.1 kernel 32 bits, similar wait is only 5 seconds.

On the xenialPup kernel 4.9 64 bits, it's also a 15 seconds wait for abiword, gnumeric,
geany, etc., the first time your riun them.

This is unreal.

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« Il ne faut pas multiplier les entités logiques sans nécessité. » (Ockham)
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