Puppy Linux Discussion Forum Forum Index Puppy Linux Discussion Forum
Puppy HOME page : puppylinux.com
"THE" alternative forum : puppylinux.info
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The time now is Sat 18 Nov 2017, 04:51
All times are UTC - 4
 Forum index » House Training » Users ( For the regulars )
Are Anorexic Puppies possible?
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
Page 1 of 1 [15 Posts]  
Author Message
LenseOnLife

Joined: 12 Oct 2017
Posts: 18
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Sun 15 Oct 2017, 14:58    Post subject:  Are Anorexic Puppies possible?
Subject description: restrict User Access to - well almost nothing!
 

Hi,

Wondering am I on the right road.

BACKGROUND:
1. Working with group of elderly people, all have intellectual disabilities and none have ever used computers before. We have developed a number of computer games to stimulate the brain. These have been well received and we are now looking at platforms to use. Android works well for some people, but for others the touch screen is a big difficulty. Some like the desktop PC with assistive technology USB mice.

2. Some of the users like to press everything and see what happens. Nothing unusual to get into a file browser and inadvertently delete, rename - generally screw up the system.

REQUIREMENT:
1. An iron clad system that will have a number of icons on the desktop and the users can basically do nothing else but click on those icons.

2. An ability to replace some of the programs over time with updates so it must be possible to browse the file system and replace files. It is OK if this is done by booting a live system from CD to do the changes.

I am new to this technology but did cut my teeth on Unix back in the 70's 80's so not a complete novice - although it does seem a little alien to me right now having been an Android / Windows programmer in the last couple of decades.

I'm using TahrPup on a group of 2005 Fujitsu Siemens 1GB RAM, <3GHz P4 CPU with a HDD around 30GB.

Like the look and feel of Tahrpup, and have worked out that it is possible to delete all the icons on the desktop. Not fully sure what effect this has. Does it just delete the icons or does it also delete the underlying applications?

I have not been able to disable the menu options - which I think will be essential. Have a feeling that it should be possible (without necessarily deleting the application). Is it?

finally - and I am sure that all you seasoned forum members are sick to your back teeth on newbies like myself asking this question - but bear with me - I am a bit of a geriatric Crying or Very sad

If I set a Full system to FIDO, is there any way of making it an administrator at a later stage - and back again as well?

If you've read this far - thanks!

If you have managed to think of some suggestions / answers - great!

Cheers for now,

Oliver
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
rockedge


Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 402
Location: Connecticut, United States

PostPosted: Sun 15 Oct 2017, 15:07    Post subject:  

there is a kiosk version of Puppy Linux floating around and also I believe one Puppy derivative made for a school classroom environment that would fit into your requirements. I think these versions do not allow anything else to be run or be deleted or moved other than what you allow.

some links to get you going.

http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Education
http://felicityjones.us/puppy-linux-kiosk-mode.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
LenseOnLife

Joined: 12 Oct 2017
Posts: 18
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Sun 15 Oct 2017, 15:21    Post subject:  

Hi,

Greetings The US of A and much appreciate that quick reply.

I'll get started on experimenting with them - will save me a load of hassle and grief

Thanks again,

Oliver
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
Keef


Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 869
Location: Staffordshire

PostPosted: Sun 15 Oct 2017, 16:19    Post subject:  

This one by ETP might be worth a look:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=82607
It is not locked down, but the large icon interface is available to try on something else if needed. There is a link in the page above.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
LenseOnLife

Joined: 12 Oct 2017
Posts: 18
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Sun 15 Oct 2017, 17:10    Post subject:  

Hi,

Thanks for all those suggestions but I'm now totally lost Confused

The link to PuppyLinux.org .... Education and the felicity Jones link didn't bring me to any ISOs or anything that I recognised as being downloadable. Is the Puppy Linux Kiosk mode a special distribution or something that can be switched from a standard distribution - or have I missed it completely?

Tried that link by ETP and the same thing - couldn't find an iso download. found 3 img files which I'm presuming might be iso (?) but the filenames didn't really mean anything to me. So, while Magoo looked great - I've just no idea how to proceed.

for the time being I think I'll play around with configuring the tahrpup version and see what works / doesn't work on the PC. And see how far I can get down teh road I want to travel.

Thanks for the suggestion - I think I need to learn some more and be more knowledgeable re terminology etc.. Confused

Cheers,

Oliver
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2005
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Sun 15 Oct 2017, 17:47    Post subject:  

Hi LenseOnLife,

The great thing about Puppies is their adaptability. They are what you make them.

Making them what you want just requires a little orientation. A "Frugal" install "runs in RAM". Frugal does not mean "cut down" -- no program or capability has been left out. Frugal, rather refers to not requiring an entire hard-drive partition. Originally, Puppies ran from a CD. They were then ported to hard-drives to run from a folder. When you've done a Frugal install, Puppies continue to act as if they are running from a CD --reading files into RAM as and when you need them.

The first time you shut-down a frugally installed Puppy, it will ask if you want to create a SaveFile (option SaveFolder on newer Puppies). The SaveFile/Folder will be written to your Storage Media (in your case, hard-drive) and, thereafter, preserve the changes you've made to the system including its settings and any applications you've installed or the automatic loading of SFSes you've loaded. SFSes are Squash-File-Systems which are analogous to Window's portables. They are not installed, but only loaded or unloaded. This enables you to try out newer versions without deleting older versions: 'though you'll still have to unload the older version to give the newer version a fair test.

Many of us run Frugal Puppies with "Automatic Save" turned off. With Automatic Save turned off, no further changes are preserved unless you do so manually. On newer Puppies, this is easy to do. See this thread, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=662326#662326. Read it from the end, backwards. On newer Puppies, all that's necessary is to change the kernel boot parameter form "kernel...pmedia=atahd..." to "kernel...pmedia=ataflash..." then open Menu>System>Puppy Event Manager, click the Save Session Tab and set the Save Interval to Zero (0). If you do not check the options "Ask at shutdown" box, the casual user will not be able to make any changes to the system. You, however, will still be able to by opening a terminal and typing the code: "save2flash".

Alternatively, you might want to consider using nic007's technique: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=944470#944470. I haven't used it myself. But, I'm sure that if you have any questions nic007 will be happy to answer your posts to that thread or your email.

For your purposes, I do not recommend "Full Installs". With a Full Install, the above procedures do not work and any change is automatically written to storage.

On every Puppy of which I'm aware, desktop application icons are merely shortcuts. Removing them (Right-Click >Remove Item(s)) does not disturb the program itself.

You can also remove/restore Start Menu listings to applications. In Tahrpup and XenialPup, you can do that via the menu: Menu>Desktop>JWMDesk Manager, Click the Menu Manager Panel, Click "Show-Hide".

Slacko 6.3x has a similar application about which I'll edit this post once I boot into Slacko 6.3.

On every recent Puppy, you can also remove Menu entries manually. To generate a Menu Entry, Puppy reads the arguments of the desktop files found at /usr/share/applications. In order to show up on the Menu, an application has to have a Category argument Puppy recognizes. Desktop files are simple text files you can open by right-clicking them and selecting either "open in geany" or "open in text editor". If you open the file abiword.desktop, you'll see the line reading "Categories=WordProcessor". If you edit that to read "Categories=zWordProcessor" --note the "z", as Puppy does not recognize zWordProcessor as a valid argument, no menu listing for abiword would be generated. Later, of course, you could restore the listing by re-opening abiword.desktop and removing the z.

FYI, you can also start any application by browsing to its desktop file at /usr/share/applications and Left-Clicking it. You can also place a icon of any application on the desktop by browsing to /usr/share/applications and dragging its desktop file to the desktop. Once you've done that, you can Right-Click it and change its name or the Icon which appears.

Changes you make may not show up immediately. Often, you have to "Restart-X/Restart Graphical Server": Menu>Exit "Restart-X/Restart Graphical Server". This causes a Puppy to re-catalog what is then on its system. If you've removed the Menu entry, you can perform the following:

Ctrl-Alt-Backspace --which will drop you out of the window server; followed by
xwin --which will restart it.

Sometimes, however, it is necessary to Save-to-Storage and reboot. Remember, if you've turned off the Automatic Save, you'll have to do a Manual Save.

mikesLr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
LenseOnLife

Joined: 12 Oct 2017
Posts: 18
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Sun 15 Oct 2017, 18:04    Post subject:  

Hi,

That was a really informative post and written in words shorter than marmalade which I can understand - thanks.

I had an idea about what the savefile was doing but great to see it written down and explained. I'll have to experiment with that for a while to understand fully the facility because I think I need to make more use of it so that I can experiment with the configuration without screwing up everything - which is what I'm doing at the moment Rolling Eyes

You seem to have answered all my questions so, reinstall tahrpup for hundredth time (OK a slight exaggeration) but this time Idea , if I follow the instructions properly and the suggestions above, it should be the final time Very Happy

Thanks to everyone who took the time to read and come up with suggestions - a great support forum - thanks.

Oliver
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
Keef


Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 869
Location: Staffordshire

PostPosted: Sun 15 Oct 2017, 18:18    Post subject:  

Here's a link to the Magoo pup:
https://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_Magoo_pup
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2005
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Sun 15 Oct 2017, 19:49    Post subject: Further considerations  

Hi again LenseOnLife,

One of the reasons Puppy is so adaptable is that it runs as root, i.e. administrator; as do all its applications although some web-browsers can be setup to run as "spot" with limited privileges.

For your purposes, a "user" running as root can be dangerous. For example, the desktop drive icons are short-cuts which open your hard-drive in rox file-manager. With it so opened, right clicking any file --or all files-- will allow the user to delete them. Shocked Bye, Bye everything.

Suggest you do the following: Menu>Desktop>JWMDesk>Icon Manager, uncheck the boxes for Show desktop icons for each Drive, and uncheck Show desktop icons for each Partition. [Out of sight, out of mind]. This may not prevent problems. If any desktop drive icon remains, Right-Click it, click App Dir sd(whatever), Click Properties and Uncheck Write by Owner. Clicking the Drive icon will then open it in Pmount, which won't be able to do anything.

You might also consider removing the Menu entry and any Taskbar and Desktop Icons for Rox. You can still open rox by opening a terminal and typing "rox", without the quotes.

Bye the way, in addition to removing stuff, you might want to consider adding games and drawing programs. See the Additional Software Forum about that. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/index.php?f=63.

It may also be helpful that you know about the "Wellminded Search". Its a dedicated google search of things Puppy. Just open your webbrowser to http://wellminded.net63.net/ and type in some keywords, such as the version of your Puppy, e.g. Tahrpup, and the application or other thing you're interested in: e.g. typing in "tahrpup" and "mypaint" generated this link, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=834137#834137.

Moreover, adding Wine, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=725128#725128 may open up a lot of Windows applications to be considered. WineHQ provides discussions of which programs work well. https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=category&iId=2&sAction=view&sTitle=Browse+Applications. As a general rule, many Windows applications packaged as portables work well but aren't discussed by WineHQ.

Getting Wine to run under Puppies is easy, but not obvious. So, don't be afraid to ask.

mikesLr

p.s. Removing Menu entries under Slacko 6.3.2: Menu>Desktop>Desktop Settings, Click Menu, Click Add/Remove Icon.

p.p.s. Rockiedge had a good idea. Unfortunately, many links to older Puppies aren't functional or completely functional. Fortunately, ally has archived many of the old Puppies at archive.org. Among them are several version of Puppy Arcade, https://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_Puppy_Arcade and can_bike_os_kiosk_edition, https://archive.org/details/can_bike_os_kiosk_edition-5.5.iso
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
hamoudoudou


Joined: 24 Jul 2014
Posts: 172
Location: rabat

PostPosted: Sun 15 Oct 2017, 21:18    Post subject: I consider Puppies as books.
Subject description: Magoo.pup on stage (puppy_precise_5.4.1.1.sfs: 199 M) right now
 

I consider Puppies as books. Technologists say this book is old. I say this book has been written a long time ago. Technologist speak about the paper, the pencil, i speak about the story.
Technologists are Idiots. They can only update the support.
new Puppies are on new supports, but writers are gone. they give you bluetooth or 3D, or 64bits, or color TV sets, but there is no stuff written for these technologies.
About Puppies for school, they are a dozen. They use Lucid. Writers are gone. Some are still in use in schools. They were not perfect. But nobody has been able to do better, even to try to do better.
Technology is still here, but artists are gone. The show must go on.. They produce cd players, but singers are dead. Auditors has moved elsewhere. They produce, again an again, just because they don't know to do anything else than to produce media players.
Somebody downloads attack pup for ally's stores, ask a question, the idiot tell him 'look at the date of birth'. 'attack pup' as example, not sure attack pup has a future (I have a CD of it in my drawers). But it was not a cloned Puppy.

Last edited by hamoudoudou on Sun 15 Oct 2017, 22:53; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
rockedge


Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 402
Location: Connecticut, United States

PostPosted: Sun 15 Oct 2017, 21:47    Post subject:  

rather deep but okay........ anyway no need to reinstall Tahr! just delete the save file or folder and reboot....make a new save file/folder...the main code will remain untouched.

I can perhaps help you develop a Puppy Linux tahr version that fits your needs. I think if we strip down the menus and modify the keyboard bindings so it will not be easy to drop out of the window manager and if we re-master the customized Puppy Linux Tahr with all the changes and create an ISO file to make it very easy to install and no save file/folder needed. Although it may be possible to include a save feature or create one that can save small changes and one version that is what it is. We will make sure that the open access to the file system is extremely limited and that crazy clicking and exploring will not break the system or let hackers steal anyones brain cycles.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
LenseOnLife

Joined: 12 Oct 2017
Posts: 18
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Mon 16 Oct 2017, 00:51    Post subject:  

Hi Lads (or are the any lassies present),

Wow - what a response. Now I really need to get my reading glasses on and rekindle a couple of them old grey cells to try and digest all these ideas. Please don't anyone think I'm not appreciative or ignoring you - it will just take me time to assimilate all this information - although you may not realise it, and I am very grateful that abbreviations were not used, but the various flavours of Puppy are still alien to me, as are the applications so it will take me a while to get up to crawling speed on my trainer puppy bike.

Thanks again folks for everything

Oliver
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 3131
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Mon 16 Oct 2017, 09:21    Post subject:  

@LenseOnLife:-

Good thing keef found you that link, as that will give you the ISO files. ETP has for sometime been providing his 'Puplets' as.img files.....intended for writing direct to a USB drive using 'Disk Destroyer' (the 'dd' command.) Great for those who are aware of the possible pitfalls of not using 'dd' very carefully. It's all too easy to wipe stuff you want to keep..!

For your purposes, the ISO file should be far less fraught with danger..... Laughing


Mike. Wink

_________________
If I've helped you.....please say 'Thanks'!
MY PUPPY PACKAGES
--------------------------------------

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
LenseOnLife

Joined: 12 Oct 2017
Posts: 18
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Mon 16 Oct 2017, 17:48    Post subject:  

Hi,

To be honest I've not had an opportunity to do anything since yesterday. That storm struck early this morning and power, mobile and land-line all out since mid morning.

Have driven to nearby town (15 miles) to get mobile broadband and catch up with emails and news. Seemingly about 350,000 homes without power, and since my shack is somewhat off the beaten track I think it might be quite some time before I'll be online again.

Cheers all,

Oliver
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2005
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Mon 16 Oct 2017, 19:03    Post subject:  

Hi Oliver,

We've given you a lot to digest. Take your time. Try any suggestion you received which you think might be helpful/workable. When, and if, you run into a snag or feel you need further advice, post again. The way the Forum software works is that a recent post to an old thread moves it to the top of the Section, just below any "Sticky". We'll be here.

That is, we'll be here if the virus I seem to have spread doesn't wipe us out. Shocked Not sure how I did that. Thought it was just something SciFi writers cooked up as plots. But I had a head cold a couple of days ago when posting to the forum and now several Puppians, although scattered all over the globe, have mentioned they are down with something.

To all affected, my sincerest apologies. Rolling Eyes

mikesLr

Edit-- The next day.

To all effected by "My" virus: Sudafed*, drink a lot of fluids, stay warm, don't drive a car. 3 days, sinuses no longer in flood-mode, throat & wind-pipe no longer covered with wallpaper-paste, chest and my head almost clear.

I mention this because it has only just occurred to me that LenseOnLife's objective --a Puppy initially configurable but thereafter almost indestructible by a user-- already exists. Either greengeek's banksy3, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=899307#899307 or gjuhasz's puli 6.1.0, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=816340#816340 could serve as a base.
puli is a based on Tahpup 7.0.5; banksy3 on Slacko 5.6, which is almost identical to Slacko 5.7. The above reference to banksy3 is to the special edition which enables saving of ALL customizations made on first bootup. For general information, see http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=813562#813562.

mikeslr

* I've touted sudafed because I'm diabetic. Among warnings on its label is "If diabetic, consult your physician" -- which, being near impossible, results in sudafed being left on the shelf. Researching the internet revealed that warning exists because sudafed's use might result in a higher blood-sugar condition --but probably not as high is that caused by the malady. The work-around is to carefully, perhaps more frequently, take blood-sugar readings.

Caution: I did the research while mentally impaired. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 1 of 1 [15 Posts]  
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » House Training » Users ( For the regulars )
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.0681s ][ Queries: 13 (0.0056s) ][ GZIP on ]