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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
Has anyone ever tried to build a FedoraPup?
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jd7654

Joined: 06 Apr 2015
Posts: 256

PostPosted: Mon 11 Sep 2017, 17:26    Post subject:  

mikeslr wrote:
I wondered what advantage a Fedora-Pup might provide. Labbe5's post, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=967376#967376 --better security-- seems to provide an answer.


A big part of the Fedora security is the SELinux component, but don't think you'd want that in a Puppy. It can be a pain to work with, completely opposite of the ease of use of Puppy and root for everything.(the security concerns of which have been discussed many times before)

The main benefit of a FedPup would be if you are going to do some work with Fedora/RPM packages. That would be a handy spin, especially since there really isn't a lightweight portable Redhat/Fedora spin like there is for all the other major distros.
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 371
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Mon 11 Sep 2017, 18:18    Post subject:  

mikeslr wrote:
I wondered what advantage a Fedora-Pup might provide. Labbe5's post, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=967376#967376 --better security-- seems to provide an answer.

mikesLr


There is another reason I know of why a Fedora Pup (or better a Dog because full multi-user would be required) would be very useful:

In education. Most professional Linux courses (for training/certification) use the following RHEL materials:

https://www.redhat.com/en/services/training/red-hat-enterprise-linux

So the huge number of students undertaking these Red Hat certification program courses globally need easy access to a Red Hat Linux system (though CentOS is pretty good for the purpose too). Though they get such access at their polytechic/university environment, it is good to have access at home (though often a home/training-institution remote login arrangement has been setup, which works quite well in these days of fast broadband connection).

Though other Linux's are fine for most of the work, many of the tools used (for security and otherwise) are RedHat specific. I used to be a trainer on such courses but haven't myself been near a RedHat system since I moved from that position four or five years ago.

wiak
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jd7654

Joined: 06 Apr 2015
Posts: 256

PostPosted: Mon 11 Sep 2017, 18:55    Post subject:  

wiak wrote:
There is another reason I know of why a Fedora Pup (or better a Dog because full multi-user would be required) would be very useful:

In education. Most professional Linux courses (for training/certification) use the following RHEL materials:


I don't think that would be a good use of a Fedora Pup. For professional training, you'd want the real thing.(or as close to it like CentOS) You'd want all the files and binaries and processes like systemd in the right place and functioning the exact same way.

A Fedora Pup would not be Fedora, it would be Puppy, just with Fedora binary package compatible. Just like UPup is not Ubuntu, just Ubuntu binary compatible. Maybe you could make a CentPup that might be closer, but then why not just use full CentOS? Its free.
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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 11157
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Mon 11 Sep 2017, 22:31    Post subject:  

belham2 wrote:
musher0 wrote:
Thanks for the valuable info, mikeslr.

A Fedora Pup would be worth trying, if only for that reason.


Musher my friend,

When it comes to the pack in front of the sled....I am the closest mutt to the driver because I don't know what I am doing, lol. You, you are out near the (if not thee) "lead" dog driving us. If Toni (or someone with similar skill) is not driving us, and you are not out front leading us mutts, we are gonna starve, fail & die a miserable death on the tundra Wink

Thanks for the kind words.

There you go, belham2, raw reindeer steak! Laughing
Don't worry, you won't starve!!!

But you still have some of those hunting wolf instincts, have you?! Laughing
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musher0
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« Il ne faut pas multiplier les entités logiques sans nécessité. » (Ockham)
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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 11157
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Mon 11 Sep 2017, 23:51    Post subject:  

Hello all.

On a more serious note:

like saintless mentioned on the mavrothal thread I referenced above (NOT
quoting verbatim, but I think this is the meaning of his intervention):
"What's the point of producing a carbon copy Puppy from a different repo,
if you won't maintain it?"

Pelo -- whether we generally like his comments or not, he sometimes
comes up with interesting insights -- has also been yapping at my calves
and at other people's about this for a while: maintenance and service of
our Puppies; "traveler" focus, to use Pelo's choice of words.

Certainly security is a concern; and just look at our founder go with his
"Easy Linux"!!! Very Happy BarryK is onto something good there, I'm sure.

But as jd7654 mentioned above, it may not be Puppy's role to get deep
into SELinux, etc.

Even as Puppy is, if a Puppyist does regular back-ups and uses minimal
vigilance and good computing practices, "Kiddo" better get up very early
in the morning to try to attack and compromise any Puppy's security.

I can testify, like Mike Walsh and some other forum members, that with
proper back-ups and a minimum of Internet vigilance
, if something
happens to your Puppy due to hardware failure or to Internet malware, you
can get your Puppy back on line, pretty much in the state it was before the
incident, in less than half an hour. That's not bad at all, considering that
Puppy is not expressly designed with security in mind.

Coming back to Saintless' statement, does Puppy really need to prove that
it can also get geany, ROX-Filer or mplayer from a Fedora repo? We have
already proven many times over that we can fetch them successfully from
Slackware, Ubuntu, and Debian repos, not to mention T2 repos.

I know, I'm taking a step back from my initial post. While one would feel
justified pride in being able to add a Fedora-Pup or a CentOS-Pup to our
woof-CE collection of builds, it would still be Puppy, with jwm as WM, geany
as text editor, leafpad as text reader, etc., etc.

Even building a Puppy entirely from source, a la Linux From Scratch, for
example, would that bring something more interesting to the user?

Has any one heard of "halibut"? Laughing This is not really off subject. I do like
fish occasionally for dinner, but I'm talking about this Linux fish: Smile
https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/halibut

What I'm getting at is I think we need to "renew the offer". Those are my
thoughts at present. I think we need to have a good discussion about
"renewing the offer."

How about we offer fish and chips once and a while instead of the usual
Puppy food?! Wink

(The thought just occurred to me that the expression "renew the offer" may
be a "Frenchism"? If so, I apologize, and hope you still get my meaning!)

I would like in conclusion to underline wiak's excellent work on his
automaton script.

I think his work nicely closes the cycle. At the beginning, the woof-CE
process was extremely difficult to go through -- now, thanks to wiak and his
script, it is easy for even a newbie to build the Puppy of his/her choice.

TWYL.

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musher0
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« Il ne faut pas multiplier les entités logiques sans nécessité. » (Ockham)
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3882
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep 2017, 03:49    Post subject:  

musher0 wrote:
did try saintless' template (or matrix or
seed or whatever it's called), but I can't get a connection to the fedora repos.

Wired network autoconnects for me on boot. Maybe there is something more to cleanup in the remaster script but I don't know what exactly. Try to use dhclient for your network interface:
Code:
bash-4.3# ifconfig -a
eth1: flags=4163<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST>  mtu 1500
        inet 192.168.100.2  netmask 255.255.255.0  broadcast 192.168.100.255
        inet6 fe80::2c0:9fff:fe57:76bc  prefixlen 64  scopeid 0x20<link>
        ether 00:c0:9f:57:76:bc  txqueuelen 1000  (Ethernet)
        RX packets 94259  bytes 113151873 (107.9 MiB)
        RX errors 0  dropped 16  overruns 0  frame 0
        TX packets 30724  bytes 2236719 (2.1 MiB)
        TX errors 0  dropped 0 overruns 0  carrier 0  collisions 0

lo: flags=73<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING>  mtu 65536
        inet 127.0.0.1  netmask 255.0.0.0
        inet6 ::1  prefixlen 128  scopeid 0x10<host>
        loop  txqueuelen 0  (Local Loopback)
        RX packets 2826  bytes 430476 (420.3 KiB)
        RX errors 0  dropped 0  overruns 0  frame 0
        TX packets 2826  bytes 430476 (420.3 KiB)
        TX errors 0  dropped 0 overruns 0  carrier 0  collisions 0

bash-4.3# dhclient eth1
dhclient(1104) is already running - exiting.

This version of ISC DHCP is based on the release available
on ftp.isc.org.  Features have been added and other changes
have been made to the base software release in order to make
it work better with this distribution.

Please report for this software via the Red Hat Bugzilla site:
    http://bugzilla.redhat.com

exiting.


Then you can see the beauty of working dnf (yum) package manager which will provide upgrades and user support years ahead as apt-get does for debiandog. No need to maintain anything if you keep the native package manager working:
Code:
bash-4.3# dnf update
Fedora 23 - i386                                3.5 MB/s |  39 MB     00:11   
Fedora 23 - i386 - Updates                      3.6 MB/s |  23 MB     00:06   
Last metadata expiration check: 0:00:29 ago on Tue Sep 12 02:45:28 2017.
Dependencies resolved.
Nothing to do.
Complete!


bash-4.3# dnf install xfe
Last metadata expiration check: 0:00:55 ago on Tue Sep 12 02:45:28 2017.
Dependencies resolved.
================================================================================
 Package                    Arch       Version              Repository     Size
================================================================================
Installing:
 fox                        i686       1.6.51-1.fc23        updates       979 k
 jbigkit-libs               i686       2.1-4.fc23           fedora         51 k
 libtiff                    i686       4.0.4-1.fc23         fedora        179 k
 mesa-libGLU                i686       9.0.0-9.fc23         fedora        183 k
 startup-notification       i686       0.12-10.fc23         fedora         44 k
 xfe                        i686       1.42-1.fc23          updates       1.4 M
 
Transaction Summary
================================================================================
Install  6 Packages

Total download size: 2.8 M
Installed size: 10 M
Is this ok [y/N]: y

Downloading Packages:
(1/6): startup-notification-0.12-10.fc23.i686.r 132 kB/s |  44 kB     00:00   
(2/6): libtiff-4.0.4-1.fc23.i686.rpm            758 kB/s | 179 kB     00:00   
(3/6): mesa-libGLU-9.0.0-9.fc23.i686.rpm        983 kB/s | 183 kB     00:00   
(4/6): jbigkit-libs-2.1-4.fc23.i686.rpm         533 kB/s |  51 kB     00:00   
(5/6): fox-1.6.51-1.fc23.i686.rpm               971 kB/s | 979 kB     00:01   
(6/6): xfe-1.42-1.fc23.i686.rpm                 1.3 MB/s | 1.4 MB     00:01   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total                                           997 kB/s | 2.8 MB     00:02     
Running transaction check
Transaction check succeeded.
Running transaction test
  Installing  : fox-1.6.51-1.fc23.i686                                      4/6
  Installing  : startup-notification-0.12-10.fc23.i686                      5/6
  Installing  : xfe-1.42-1.fc23.i686                                        6/6
  Verifying   : xfe-1.42-1.fc23.i686                                        1/6
  Verifying   : startup-notification-0.12-10.fc23.i686                      2/6
  Verifying   : fox-1.6.51-1.fc23.i686                                      3/6
  Verifying   : libtiff-4.0.4-1.fc23.i686                                   4/6
  Verifying   : mesa-libGLU-9.0.0-9.fc23.i686                               5/6
  Verifying   : jbigkit-libs-2.1-4.fc23.i686                                6/6

Installed:
  fox.i686 1.6.51-1.fc23                      jbigkit-libs.i686 2.1-4.fc23     
  libtiff.i686 4.0.4-1.fc23                   mesa-libGLU.i686 9.0.0-9.fc23     
  startup-notification.i686 0.12-10.fc23      xfe.i686 1.42-1.fc23             

Complete!


SELinux has nothing to do because I don't use official fedora kernel:
Code:
bash-4.3# sestatus
bash: sestatus: command not found

bash-4.3# rpm -qf $(which sestatus)
policycoreutils-2.4-21.fc23.i686

bash-4.3# dnf install policycoreutils
Last metadata expiration check: 0:01:20 ago on Tue Sep 12 02:45:28 2017.
Dependencies resolved.
================================================================================
 Package                 Arch        Version               Repository      Size
================================================================================
Installing:
 libselinux-utils        i686        2.4-4.fc23            fedora         143 k
 policycoreutils         i686        2.4-21.fc23           updates        921 k

Transaction Summary
================================================================================
Install  2 Packages

Total download size: 1.0 M
Installed size: 5.0 M
Is this ok [y/N]: y

Downloading Packages:
(1/2): libselinux-utils-2.4-4.fc23.i686.rpm     535 kB/s | 143 kB     00:00   
(2/2): policycoreutils-2.4-21.fc23.i686.rpm     1.4 MB/s | 921 kB     00:00   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total                                           434 kB/s | 1.0 MB     00:02     
Running transaction check
Transaction check succeeded.
Running transaction test
Transaction test succeeded.
Running transaction
  Installing  : libselinux-utils-2.4-4.fc23.i686                            1/2
  Installing  : policycoreutils-2.4-21.fc23.i686                            2/2
  Verifying   : policycoreutils-2.4-21.fc23.i686                            1/2
  Verifying   : libselinux-utils-2.4-4.fc23.i686                            2/2

Installed:
  libselinux-utils.i686 2.4-4.fc23       policycoreutils.i686 2.4-21.fc23     

Complete!

SELinux is disabled and I think you can't enable it unless you change the kernel with the one from Fedora:
Code:
bash-4.3# uname -r
4.4.1-pf3

bash-4.3# sestatus
SELinux status:                 disabled

Activating selinux in /etc/selinux/config or the link to it in /etc/sysconfig/selinux doesn't change this with kernel from other linux.

Systemd is another subject and this will be the real problem to find help from Puppy linux developers.. You have to use systemd or you will have to support the system yourself in the future.
Code:

bash-4.3# cat /proc/1/comm
systemd


Toni

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Pelo

Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Posts: 12591
Location: Mer méditerrannée (1 kms°)

PostPosted: Wed 13 Sep 2017, 11:52    Post subject: for people francophones  

présentation Fedora by Fedora France, for people francophones.
Fedora 27 La prochaine version de Fedora est prévue pour fin octobre 2017

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