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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Many questions about using Puppy.
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davids45


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 1101
Location: Chatswood, NSW

PostPosted: Thu 17 Aug 2017, 04:33    Post subject: Frugal install to sda3 + small swap partition
Subject description: Leaves room to try newer Pups and keep your first one
 

G'day,

I think 9GB is plenty to play with Puppy for starters.

Only issue before installing a Pup could be to use GParted (Puppy's built-in partition tool - in the System menu) to make a small linux swap partition. Do you have a live-CD of 4.2?
The swap works as a 'poor man's RAM' when you're limited with real RAM. Re-size your 9GB to 8.5GB (sda3) and create a new 500MB swap partition (sda4) in the empty space.

This small extra partition will use up your four primary partitions quota but I don't think that matters as you don't need more partitions than this?

Go the Frugal Pup install route to sda3. This way, you may add another Pup or two if you are happy with your first Pup. Frugals allow sharing of a partition by multi-Pups whereas a Full doesn't.

And in playing with your Pup, mucking up a Full Pup means doing it all again (wiping the partition and re-installing) whereas mucking up a Frugal means deleting just the mucked-up save file and booting the Pup again - no re-installing since the Frugal Pup OS files are read-only and still good to go.

Of course, compared to installing or re-installing Windows, even a Full Pup install is a doddle to re-do.

( Shocked Oh! I've just read latest nic007's post which is on the same Grubby process I've written of below - try whichever seems more fun Very Happy )
Once you have a Pup installed (actually during the install process you should be prompted to do this next bit), you need to install the Grub or Grub4Dos boot-loader so you can boot either XP or Puppy (or one of your Puppies if go multi-Frugal). Otherwise, XP will still be in charge of your computer.

Adding other Pups to try later just means editing the list of Pups in the bootable OS list file "menu.lst" that should appear in the C: (sda1) root directory if you install Grub to the MBR - I've not had a problem doing this despite the Puppy installer's warnings.

If you are worried, install Grub to sda3 which should equally be OK (once sda3 is flagged as the boot partition by GParted and this will be where the menu.lst file now turns up).

Always back-up the menu.lst file BEFORE you edit it - it's what tells the computer which to boot so is pretty important it's error-free.

David S.

Last edited by davids45 on Thu 17 Aug 2017, 04:41; edited 1 time in total
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 2393
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Thu 17 Aug 2017, 04:40    Post subject: Re: Frugal install to sda3 + small swap partition
Subject description: Leaves room to try newer Pups and keep your first one
 

davids45 wrote:
G'day,

I think 9GB is plenty to play with Puppy for starters.

Only issue before installing a Pup could be to use GParted (Puppy's built-in partition tool - in the System menu) to make a small linux swap partition. Do you have a live-CD of 4.2?
The swap works as a 'poor man's RAM' when you're limited with real RAM. Re-size your 9GB to 8.5GB (sda3) and create a new 500MB swap partition (sda4) in the empty space.

This small extra partition will use up your four primary partitions quota but I don't think that matters as you don't need more partitions than this?

Go the Frugal Pup install route to sda3. This way, you may add another Pup or two if you are happy with your first Pup. Frugals allow sharing of a partition by multi-Pups whereas a Full doesn't.

And in playing with your Pup, mucking up a Full Pup means doing it all again (wiping the partition and re-installing) whereas mucking up a Frugal means deleting just the mucked-up save file and booting the Pup again - no re-installing since the Frugal Pup OS files are read-only and still good to go.

Of course, compared to installing or re-installing Windows, even a Full Pup install is a doddle to re-do.

Once you have a Pup installed (actually during the install process you should be prompted to do this next bit), you need to install the Grub or Grub4Dos boot-loader so you can boot either XP or Puppy (or one of your Puppies if go multi-Frugal). Otherwise, XP will still be in charge of your computer.

Adding other Pups to try later just means editing the list of Pups in the bootable OS list file "menu.lst" that should appear in the C: (sda1) root directory if you install Grub to the MBR - I've not had a problem doing this despite the Puppy installer's warnings.

If you are worried, install Grub to sda3 which should equally be OK (once sda3 is flagged as the boot partition by GParted and this will be where the menu.lst file now turns up).

Always back-up the menu.lst file BEFORE you edit it - it's what tells the computer which to boot so is pretty important it's error-free.

David S.


You don't have to install grub4dos with my method, it's not installed to any boot record anywhere, just copied to the drive. Fail proof/ safest method. In fact, I strongly urge NOT TO INSTALL IT TO THE BOOT RECORD.
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 2393
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Thu 17 Aug 2017, 05:06    Post subject: Re: Frugal install to sda3 + small swap partition
Subject description: Leaves room to try newer Pups and keep your first one
 

davids45 wrote:
G'day,

I think 9GB is plenty to play with Puppy for starters.

Only issue before installing a Pup could be to use GParted (Puppy's built-in partition tool - in the System menu) to make a small linux swap partition. Do you have a live-CD of 4.2?
The swap works as a 'poor man's RAM' when you're limited with real RAM. Re-size your 9GB to 8.5GB (sda3) and create a new 500MB swap partition (sda4) in the empty space.

This small extra partition will use up your four primary partitions quota but I don't think that matters as you don't need more partitions than this?

Go the Frugal Pup install route to sda3. This way, you may add another Pup or two if you are happy with your first Pup. Frugals allow sharing of a partition by multi-Pups whereas a Full doesn't.

And in playing with your Pup, mucking up a Full Pup means doing it all again (wiping the partition and re-installing) whereas mucking up a Frugal means deleting just the mucked-up save file and booting the Pup again - no re-installing since the Frugal Pup OS files are read-only and still good to go.

Of course, compared to installing or re-installing Windows, even a Full Pup install is a doddle to re-do.

( Shocked Oh! I've just read latest nic007's post which is on the same Grubby process I've written of below - try whichever seems more fun Very Happy )
Once you have a Pup installed (actually during the install process you should be prompted to do this next bit), you need to install the Grub or Grub4Dos boot-loader so you can boot either XP or Puppy (or one of your Puppies if go multi-Frugal). Otherwise, XP will still be in charge of your computer.

Adding other Pups to try later just means editing the list of Pups in the bootable OS list file "menu.lst" that should appear in the C: (sda1) root directory if you install Grub to the MBR - I've not had a problem doing this despite the Puppy installer's warnings.

If you are worried, install Grub to sda3 which should equally be OK (once sda3 is flagged as the boot partition by GParted and this will be where the menu.lst file now turns up).

Always back-up the menu.lst file BEFORE you edit it - it's what tells the computer which to boot so is pretty important it's error-free.

David S.

No, it's quite different. You are installling grub4dos to the MBR (you are altering the boot record windows created). You can do it that way but it's not as safe.
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davids45


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 1101
Location: Chatswood, NSW

PostPosted: Thu 17 Aug 2017, 18:58    Post subject: Grub, not Grub4Dos  

G'day nic007,

Thanks for your clarifications.

I was assuming that starting with a 4.2 Pup, it would only have Grub with the Universal installer as the in-built 'automatic' offering to enable dual booting after Pup-4.2 was installed via the Live-CD.

If I gather correctly, your method would avoid using Puppy's Universal Installer. So a better way to see how things work, of course.

Good luck fiskrond, let us know what you try and how you go.

David S
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2432
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Thu 17 Aug 2017, 19:36    Post subject: Lin'N'Win vs. Grub4dos  

Hi nic007,

If I recall correctly, the method you propose for establishing a bootloader was that provided by Win 'n Lin --the first method I used 9 years ago. And you're correct about it being the safest because the Window's bootloader hasn't been overwritten; only its name changed which makes it easy to revert by deleting the renamed-grldr (now appearing as ntldr) and changing ntldr1 back to ntldr.

What makes just installing grub4dos 'unsafe' is that it would be difficult to later recover ntldr. The thing is, however, I've never had grub4dos fail to recognize and list Windows XP as an operating system, don't know of anyone who did; and can't think of any reason why I'd want to revert to ntldr even if I removed all Puppies and only ran XP.

9 years ago I had to use the method Lin'N'Win specified as I had no choice. But it's not something I'd recommend to noobs. Grub4dos does what its supposed to do --establish a boot-loader and a menu.lst of (almost every) operating system I've thrown at it other than on a UEFI screwed computer. It even creates an Advanced-Menu enabling me to boot into Puppy if I've screwed up while editing menu.lst. And that human error is more likely to occur while renaming grldr than ever having to revert to nltdr.

Indeed, on the several times I've written ntldr on this post, I've had to go back and correct it, having mistakenly typed nltdr.

Linux is about choice. I choose simple.

mikesLr
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fiskrond

Joined: 13 Aug 2017
Posts: 29
Location: Wales (UK)

PostPosted: Thu 17 Aug 2017, 20:20    Post subject: Re: Grub, not Grub4Dos  

davids45 wrote:
G'day nic007,

Thanks for your clarifications.

I was assuming that starting with a 4.2 Pup, it would only have Grub with the Universal installer as the in-built 'automatic' offering to enable dual booting after Pup-4.2 was installed via the Live-CD.

If I gather correctly, your method would avoid using Puppy's Universal Installer. So a better way to see how things work, of course.

Good luck fiskrond, let us know what you try and how you go.

David S


Okayy...
I've got PupWary_5.5 installed to the 9Gb partition.

The Grub that came with Pup_4.2 must have been easier to install as I bumbled my way through the install (OK to everything) but it gave me options of Windows/Linux when powering up the PC.

I thought I had messed up the whole PupWary installation, but when I went to re-install PupWary to the relevant HDD partition was informed that it was already installed.. overwrite y/n..
So, I over-wrote it and went through it again (fortunately this is so quick as to cause no stress)..

Current status:
Have re-set BIOS to boot from HDD..
Power on the PC... no boot options given... boots to Windows

So... need non-tech advice on getting GRUB to run from power-up

I am extremely grateful to all help from all posters so far by the way... (far more friendly than Ebay forums.. whole load of ego stuff going on there.. who's got the biggest white van mentality.. one poster answers question, 10 others use it as excuse to start a fight!!!)

Please remember I'm still on the teat (as it were)...
Very Happy
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 2393
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Thu 17 Aug 2017, 21:53    Post subject: Re: Lin'N'Win vs. Grub4dos  

mikeslr wrote:
Hi nic007,

If I recall correctly, the method you propose for establishing a bootloader was that provided by Win 'n Lin --the first method I used 9 years ago. And you're correct about it being the safest because the Window's bootloader hasn't been overwritten; only its name changed which makes it easy to revert by deleting the renamed-grldr (now appearing as ntldr) and changing ntldr1 back to ntldr.

What makes just installing grub4dos 'unsafe' is that it would be difficult to later recover ntldr. The thing is, however, I've never had grub4dos fail to recognize and list Windows XP as an operating system, don't know of anyone who did; and can't think of any reason why I'd want to revert to ntldr even if I removed all Puppies and only ran XP.

9 years ago I had to use the method Lin'N'Win specified as I had no choice. But it's not something I'd recommend to noobs. Grub4dos does what its supposed to do --establish a boot-loader and a menu.lst of (almost every) operating system I've thrown at it other than on a UEFI screwed computer. It even creates an Advanced-Menu enabling me to boot into Puppy if I've screwed up while editing menu.lst. And that human error is more likely to occur while renaming grldr than ever having to revert to nltdr.

Indeed, on the several times I've written ntldr on this post, I've had to go back and correct it, having mistakenly typed nltdr.

Linux is about choice. I choose simple.

mikesLr

But if you install grub4dos it writes to the bootrecord and I have had to re-install windows at times because something went wrong and I couldn't get Windows started because I couln't fix the MBR. You right the method I propose does require renaming two files. Really don't know how this can be a problem since I've been using this method for over 10 years now. Really, if you want to rename the files to its original stateafter some disaster just pop in a puppy cd and do it (your windows os and original MBR at least will be intact). There is of course another method to do this without renaming anything and still not install grub4dos but it requires an additional step. In the latter case you do my method but instead of renaming any files , you add and entry for grub to your windows boot.ini. The disadvantage of this is that you will start with the windows bootup screen, then select grub to bring up the menu.lst (thus an extra screen but still you keep the original MBR intact). Anyways, choices as you say. Personally I don't like messing with the original boot record when doing dual-booting as I have had bad experiences before and it's not fun to re-install windows. I'm out of here, too many cooks spoiling the broth.
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fiskrond

Joined: 13 Aug 2017
Posts: 29
Location: Wales (UK)

PostPosted: Thu 17 Aug 2017, 23:19    Post subject:  ffs...  

okay guys.. let's cool this one down and get back to getting me using Pup!

The stuff you are now talking about (various GRUB installs) is not helping ME in the slightest! Keep on track.. agreed! Rolling Eyes

STATUS
- PupWary installed to partition, is operative, I like it.
- Have supposedly installed the GRUB that came with the above
- Power-on takes me straight to WinXP
- Have previously installed Pup4.2.. the GRUB that came with that worked on power-up and gave me option of which OS to boot.

- I don't care which is the best.. I don't understand the detail you guys are arguing the toss about. I just want one that works... y'know.. just to GET ME STARTED!!

- If I sod it up... that's my problem.. I'll reformat HDD, re-install WinXP and go from scratch again.


Peace brothers! Common objective an' all that, aye! Smile
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 10567
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Thu 17 Aug 2017, 23:57    Post subject:  

Quote:
PupWary installed to partition, is operative, I like it.
- Have supposedly installed the GRUB that came with the above

Specific details how you did the install of Grub?

Quote:
Have supposedly installed the GRUB
tells Us nothing about what you did or if you did it correctly.
_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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Ananda98


Joined: 03 Jul 2017
Posts: 9
Location: Bali, Indonesia

PostPosted: Fri 18 Aug 2017, 01:23    Post subject: Re: ffs...  

fiskrond wrote:
okay guys.. let's cool this one down and get back to getting me using Pup!

The stuff you are now talking about (various GRUB installs) is not helping ME in the slightest! Keep on track.. agreed! Rolling Eyes

STATUS
- PupWary installed to partition, is operative, I like it.
- Have supposedly installed the GRUB that came with the above
- Power-on takes me straight to WinXP
- Have previously installed Pup4.2.. the GRUB that came with that worked on power-up and gave me option of which OS to boot.

- I don't care which is the best.. I don't understand the detail you guys are arguing the toss about. I just want one that works... y'know.. just to GET ME STARTED!!

- If I sod it up... that's my problem.. I'll reformat HDD, re-install WinXP and go from scratch again.


Peace brothers! Common objective an' all that, aye! Smile


Hello fiskrond

I am also a new user in Puppy Linux. I use Puppy Linux 4.3, in Pentium 4 1.6 Ghz, with 256 MB RAM and 40 GB Seagate hard-disk.
Before I write down more far, I want to say sorry because my English is poor... Very Happy
It maybe caused by wrong setting in GRUB. When I installed Puppy in the first time (full install), it won't boot. I tried to edit GRUB option, by selected Puppy 4.3 options in screen, and hit C.
I changed drive location where I installed Puppy, and it works!

Maybe this link will help you: http://puppylinux.org/main/How%20NOT%20to%20install%20Puppy.htm
It tells how to do frugal install...

Thanks, and happy Puppy!
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theru

Joined: 23 Jul 2015
Posts: 163
Location: Heers, Belgium

PostPosted: Fri 18 Aug 2017, 06:12    Post subject:  

Would this be considered beginners friendly?

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=61404
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davids45


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 1101
Location: Chatswood, NSW

PostPosted: Fri 18 Aug 2017, 07:18    Post subject: Installed Wary - what type of install?
Subject description: Install 4.2 again? Frugal and Grub and Fingers Crossed.
 

G'day fiskrond,

Glad you can still persevere - the first million is the hardest, I'm told.

In case the other latest suggestions by others don't get you over this hurdle, ....

I'm happy to read you had had a dual boot option which by the look of things, you deleted when installing Wary.

May I ask how you are installing these Pups to sda3? Live-CD or usb? Copying the three files from a mounted iso of the Pup? Some other way - Puppy is as simple to install as Windows isn't. But how it's done can be relevant.

I think only the Live-CD or usb method can give a "Full" Install by using Puppy's Universal Installer (in the System menu?), which install despite its encouraging name, is not recommended when starting out with Puppy.

So, I'm hoping you are doing the clever-person's Frugal Install. Hence my asking of how you are doing the installs. Can you check what is in the root directory of sda3 - list a few of the files you see maybe?

Now (fingers crossed) to go back to where you had the dual XP-4.2 boot, don't touch your Wary, but I'd suggest you re-install Puppy-4.2 - Frugal again - also to sda3.

When/if you are asked 'do you want to install Grub' after the 4.2 Puppy OS files are copied to sda3, say yes again (if that's what you did before). You said you had Grub working before with 4.2 so repeat what you did before.

If Wary was a Full install and has taken over the sda3 partition, you can still add a Frugal 4.2 Pup since Frugals can live in a single Full Pup partition if there's room and 8GB is still plenty for these two.

If this works and you get back to booting to a menu list of 2 OS (Windows and a Pup), then we need to edit the missing Pup into the menu.lst so it too will appear as a boot choice.

But let's see if you can get just one Pup to show up, with XP as well still available.

Like I sort-of said at the start, the first Pup is the hardest, although maybe that should be the second Pup.

David S.
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2432
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Fri 18 Aug 2017, 12:44    Post subject: Questions and Suggestions  

Hi fiskrond,

After reviewing the two pages of this thread there are at least two obvious things we don't know.

1. We don't know whether your computer has a CD player, a CD burner, a DVD player, a DVD burner, USB-ports or the capability of booting from a USB-port. (The last, probably not, but it's best to ask). And this question occurs because,

2. We still don't know exactly how you installed any Puppy. Did you first burn it to a CD and run the CD to install it? Did you "unpack" a Puppy's ISO and copy its files? Something else?

Suggestions: While I know you're anxious to get started running some Puppy, its best to run any Puppy from Linux Ext Formatted partitions. They can run from NTFS and Fat32, but by doing so you sacrifice many options.

You don't need a separate partition for MAME. If you're intention is to run MAME from a Puppy by installing Wine and running it under Wine, your Wine installation will be in your Puppy's "Space" and MAME will be within that.

Perhaps think of it this way: Puppy as a Box. You put a folder named Wine in that box. You put Windows programs in that folder. [Ignore this if it will confuse you: You can also put wine next to the box, with a "tight connection" so that it works as if it's in the Box. And XP portables under wine will run the same way as under XP, from anywhere (except within the Wine Folder)].

Puppies have full access to every drive (hard or USB) connected to your system. However, unlike Windows, to access those drives you first have to "mount"/open them. Puppies only automatically mount the drive/partition on which it is located This is referred to as its HOME partition. If Wine or a program you want to run is located on a partition other than Puppy's HOME partition, you'd have to mount it first and every time before you could use it.

In short, you now have devoted (21 Gbs) more than half of your hard-drive to a partition which wasn't needed and, if used, will only complicate achieving your goal.

If you're going to straighten this out, best to do it before anything else.

Everyone has recommended that you create a swap file or partition. In reformatting your partitions, you should be aware that Puppy 4.2 may not be able to use Linux Ext4. All Puppies can use Linux Ext3.

So I'd recommend the follow hard-drive structure:

1st Partition: Leave it alone. 7 Gb NTFS for Windows XP.
2nd Partition: 32 Gb Linux Ext3.
3rd Partition: 1 Gb Linux Swap. [If you search, you'll find that the 'Rule of Thumb' for creating a Swap-drive is 2 times RAM. I've researched why. It was a 'guess' based on limitations on some other matter which hasn't been relevant for a decade. But the 'Rule of Thumb' stuck. Like people walking thru an open doorway when there are 5 other doors which no one thinks about opening].

If you're ambitious, I'd resize the 1st partition to 10 Gb, reducing the 2nd partition to 29 Gbs. Depends on how much unused space XP now has. It needs some just to function. And you may later find a program or two you want to install.

FYI: I only do Frugal Installs. I have yet to have a Puppy require more than 3 Gbs for its "Original Files" + a SaveFile into which I've "installed the kitchen sink". However, when installing MANY programs into Wine I've had its container grow to 32 Gbs.

Wary (but not Puppy 4.2) can use SFSes. These are like Window's portable programs. You can load and unload them as and when you need them (can be automatically on bootup). Unloaded they require NO RAM. Loaded but unopened they require only a little RAM. They reside outside your SaveFile, so use little of its space.

For Microsoft Compatible Suite, you'll either want LibreOffice or WPS-Office. Both are available as SFSes. Only LibreOffice is available as an installable 'pet'. If you install it, it will need over 600 Mbs of your SaveFile --I think it is now up to 750 Mbs-- and, even when not in use, requiring some RAM, will reduce the amount of RAM you have for applications you currently want to run.

If you can get Wary to run on your computer, I can think of no reason to be messing around with Puppy 4.2.

Puppies come with gparted. As you've used Partition Wizard, you'll find gparted to be almost identical with one great advantage. If after using Partition Wizard you remain in XP and try to copy Puppy's files, Windows will screw things up by capitalizing letters which were "in small case" under Linux. Linux is case sensitive. A Puppy looking for a file named AbC, can't use a file named ABC.

mikesLr
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fiskrond

Joined: 13 Aug 2017
Posts: 29
Location: Wales (UK)

PostPosted: Fri 18 Aug 2017, 20:48    Post subject: Re: Installed Wary - what type of install?
Subject description: Install 4.2 again? Frugal and Grub and Fingers Crossed.
 

davids45 wrote:
G'day fiskrond,

Glad you can still persevere - the first million is the hardest, I'm told.
LOL... my kinda humour... am into double figures though! Very Happy

In case the other latest suggestions by others don't get you over this hurdle, ....

I'm happy to read you had had a dual boot option which by the look of things, you deleted when installing Wary.
Each attempt I re-format and re-install WinXp so I know I haven't got any clutter from previous attempts..

May I ask how you are installing these Pups to sda3? Live-CD or usb? Copying the three files from a mounted iso of the Pup? Some other way - Puppy is as simple to install as Windows isn't. But how it's done can be relevant.
> Interesting factor.. hmm. Am booting from USB and then running the 'Install to IDE' from desktop icon.

I think only the Live-CD or usb method can give a "Full" Install by using Puppy's Universal Installer (in the System menu?), which install despite its encouraging name, is not recommended when starting out with Puppy.

So, I'm hoping you are doing the clever-person's Frugal Install. Hence my asking of how you are doing the installs. Can you check what is in the root directory of sda3 - list a few of the files you see maybe?

Now (fingers crossed) to go back to where you had the dual XP-4.2 boot, don't touch your Wary, but I'd suggest you re-install Puppy-4.2 - Frugal again - also to sda3.

When/if you are asked 'do you want to install Grub' after the 4.2 Puppy OS files are copied to sda3, say yes again (if that's what you did before). You said you had Grub working before with 4.2 so repeat what you did before.
> Not entirely sure what I did to get it to work..

If Wary was a Full install and has taken over the sda3 partition, you can still add a Frugal 4.2 Pup since Frugals can live in a single Full Pup partition if there's room and 8GB is still plenty for these two.

If this works and you get back to booting to a menu list of 2 OS (Windows and a Pup), then we need to edit the missing Pup into the menu.lst so it too will appear as a boot choice.

But let's see if you can get just one Pup to show up, with XP as well still available.

Like I sort-of said at the start, the first Pup is the hardest, although maybe that should be the second Pup.

David S.


I'm not really concerned about MAME... just want to overcome the challenge of getting a Linux OS installed just to see if I can do it... the hardware I've got in this box simply can't run Win to an acceptable functional level so would otherwise be scrap.

Noticeable difference when running Linux though!!!
Certainly beggers the thought of what Linux can do with some decent kit! Smile
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fiskrond

Joined: 13 Aug 2017
Posts: 29
Location: Wales (UK)

PostPosted: Fri 18 Aug 2017, 21:37    Post subject:  

..just like to say thanks to all even if I haven't responded individually

am assimilating the info and processing into my understanding.. slowly

to put things in perspective... Terminator II (1991)...
circa 01:09 - 01:12
"Now rotate the two locking cylinders counterclockwise.."

Very Happy
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