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DD (openbox)/XenialDog General Discussion Thread
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dancytron

Joined: 18 Jul 2012
Posts: 939

PostPosted: Mon 26 Jun 2017, 16:13    Post subject:  

saintless wrote:
dancytron wrote:
At this point, I think it is what it is. I hope that Fred will take over now, publish it on the website and/or start a new thread...

Can you share the reasons you don't want to open a thread and offer support?
Now you are much more capable to maintain this iso than I or Fred were at the beginning.
Why Fred has to take care of everything?

Toni


My capabilities are limited. I don't even begin to have the knowledge or skills it would take to maintain this ISO. Starting a thread that says, "Here is an ISO, I don't really understand how it works and if you find something broken I can't fix it" doesn't seem like a good idea.

All I did was upgrade the ISO using apt-get upgrade, swap out intrd files following Fred's instructions and remaster it. It is Fred and Ruwoof's creation.

I did a little grunt work. (edit: and I did it in a well organized, well documented manner) I was happy to do it and I am happy with the result, but what I can do is finished.
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3882
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Mon 26 Jun 2017, 16:21    Post subject:  

dancytron wrote:
My capabilities are limited.

Same here:
Quote:
As you can see it is all dpkg database work and some tricks learned from my friends in linux community. I still consider myself as linux newb.

Now it is called DebianDog.
Dive in Dan.

Toni

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dancytron

Joined: 18 Jul 2012
Posts: 939

PostPosted: Mon 26 Jun 2017, 16:48    Post subject:  

Well, I'll continue to contribute where I think I can and how I want to.

Xenial Dog 64 does not run on my computer. Something to do with not recognizing the obsolete intel G30 display adapter. The next contribution I plan to make is to install XD64 again, document what it is doing, gather the error logs, and report it on the Xenial Dog 64 thread.

At least for now, from my point of view, Stretch 64 is finished.
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3882
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Tue 27 Jun 2017, 00:35    Post subject:  

Try to create and startx with xorg.conf in DebianDog-64. There is information how to do that in Debian wiki and in DebianDog howto thread.
Then use this xorg.conf to startx in XenialDog-64. If it still doesn't work change the video driver inside xorg.conf with vesa or alternative intel driver.
Usually it is a kernel driver or xserver-xorg version small difference.

BTW even if the system boots in X creating custom xorg.conf file often gives less ram/cpu usage as positive result. But this file must be deleted before remaster because startx probably will fail on different hardware.

Toni

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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 3194
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon 03 Jul 2017, 04:42    Post subject:  

saintless wrote:
Hi William.
mcewanw wrote:
...but for something new I'd like to see a Puppy/Debian or Puppy/Ubuntu mongrel including dpkg/apt/Synaptics despite the imperfections/issues such a distribution would have to contend with in terms of dpkg database corruption. Maybe dreaming.

There was such project:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=94101
It didn't work well. You can read there my opinion why this method is wrong from the start.


I've since come across another puppy which includes dpkg/apt/synaptics:

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=108496

Just installed it but not really tested it as yet to see what issues it brings having both Puppy Package Manager and Synaptics! I'm wondering what happens when I install a package using PPM, which is also official from Debian via Synaptics... I suppose the problems might be minimal if Synaptics only being used to install something not easily available via PPM itself, though I imagine there could be some issues that libs may get copied over, but I don't know.

William

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3882
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Mon 03 Jul 2017, 04:52    Post subject:  

mcewanw wrote:
I've since come across another puppy which includes dpkg/apt/synaptics:

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=108496

If all packages are registerd in /var/lib/dpkg/status you can try to reinstall and reconfigure all:
Code:
#!/bin/sh

for pkg in `dpkg --get-selections | awk '{print $1}' | egrep -v '(dpkg|apt|mysql|mythtv)'` ; do apt-get -y --force-yes install --reinstall $pkg ; done

If this doesn't break dpkg then it worth trying to fix any new synaptic issues.

Toni

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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 2588
Location: holland

PostPosted: Tue 04 Jul 2017, 13:12    Post subject:  

Hi All,

Here's what I've been working on for a Stretch 32 and 64 bit version:
This a fork of DebianDog.
- The 32-bit version is build from scratch from a full install using netinstall ISO
- The 64-bit version is almost identical to what dancytron shared here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=958812#958812 only fixed flashplayerchoice, now direct download latest version from Adobe (used some code from the "flashplayer auto-updater" script, thanks to Geoffrey!) and improved font rendering a little.
It's made by doing a dist-upgrade from Jessie to Stretch and has very little changes/additions compared to the Jessie 64-bit version: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=101931

The DE setup of the 32-bit version is similar to the Jessie version from here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=108535 openbox with xfce components added and extended with some extra applications/scripts.
Some more info (32-bit):
The conky version is from Jessie (pinned) because the Stretch version looks bad IMHO for light backgrounds
Also pinned xterm (Jessie version also) because with the Stretch version I had the problem (unsolved) that it refuses to close sometimes.

The boot methods live-boot and porteus-boot are supported, see here (except live-boot-2):
https://github.com/DebianDog/Jessie/wiki/Boot-methods
For (Stretch) live-boot, it's recommended now to add to the kernel line:
Code:
union=aufs

In case you experience that booting time is extreme long (and very slow starting X) (like me, using old HP laptop, having this problem only with newer kernels >=4.8, kernel bug?) the solution/workaround is adding to kernel boot line:
Code:
video=SVIDEO-1:d


The main 01-filesystem is xz compressed, convert to gzip or lz4 for faster booting and running.

Download:
32-bit:
ISO: https://github.com/fredx181/StretchDog/releases/download/v2.0/StretchDog32-2017-07-04.iso
Md5sum: https://github.com/fredx181/StretchDog/releases/download/v2.0/StretchDog32-2017-07-04.md5
64-bit:
ISO: https://github.com/fredx181/StretchDog/releases/download/v2.0/StretchDog64-2017-07-04.iso
Md5sum: https://github.com/fredx181/StretchDog/releases/download/v2.0/StretchDog64-2017-07-04.md5

Dropbox mirror:
32-bit ISO: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/nfpgaqux41wiktb/StretchDog32-2017-07-04.iso
64-bit ISO: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/gqkzksawoo47fnw/StretchDog64-2017-07-04.iso

I will not maintain these any further, so here my contribution is finished.
Reason is that I don't want to be confronted anymore with the "domino effect" that certain forum members can cause with agressive or non-constructive messages and/or psychological war. (enough = enough)

Screenshot openbox_xfce (thanks to belham2 Very Happy ):


Fred

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backi

Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 1341
Location: GERMANY

PostPosted: Tue 04 Jul 2017, 15:27    Post subject:  

Hi everyone !
Installed new DDStretch32 to Usb-Stick frugally -save on demand .

Can not set Timezone .
Anybody else encountering this problem ?
Regards
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zagreb999

Joined: 11 Apr 2014
Posts: 267
Location: Yugoslavija

PostPosted: Tue 04 Jul 2017, 15:49    Post subject: gnome-system-tools  

regards backi

with synaptic do install
gnome-system-tools
and ntp

it is the best time zone

please, do inform us about quality
of DD STRETCH!
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backi

Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 1341
Location: GERMANY

PostPosted: Wed 05 Jul 2017, 01:48    Post subject:  

Hi zagreb !

Thanks for the tip.
Installing gnome-system-tools requires another 37 mb of space ......maybe there is another solution......going to wait a bit before installing .
Did not test intensively ( not so much time ).

Just have 1 gig Ram....One thing i found ....using zram the way i did in Jessie seems not working ( because of newer kernel ? )... .
For machines with more than 1gig ram this is irrelevant .

Regards !
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3882
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Wed 05 Jul 2017, 02:03    Post subject:  

fredx181 wrote:
Download:
32-bit:
ISO: https://github.com/fredx181/StretchDog/releases/download/v2.0/StretchDog32-2017-07-04.iso
Md5sum: https://github.com/fredx181/StretchDog/releases/download/v2.0/StretchDog32-2017-07-04.md5
64-bit:
ISO: https://github.com/fredx181/StretchDog/releases/download/v2.0/StretchDog64-2017-07-04.iso
Md5sum: https://github.com/fredx181/StretchDog/releases/download/v2.0/StretchDog64-2017-07-04.md5

I will not maintain these any further, so here my contribution is finished.

Hi Fred.

Your repository for StretchDog is without license. If you are not going to maintain this project you can make the forking easier for others by adding license.

BTW I had a chance to read your removed post from yesterday. Good you removed it. Not good what you wrote there about me.

Toni

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Robert123

Joined: 20 May 2016
Posts: 369
Location: Pacific

PostPosted: Wed 05 Jul 2017, 02:28    Post subject:  

fredx181 wrote:
Hi All,

Here's what I've been working on for a Stretch 32 and 64 bit version:
This a fork of DebianDog.
- The 32-bit version is build from scratch from a full install using netinstall ISO"



Fred


Test machine ASUS F5Z: Connects first time using frisbee. Video and sound working well. Booted from unetbootin would only boot to desktop using debian method.

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s57(2018)barebonehttps://sourceforge.net/projects/puppy-linux-minimal-builds/files/s57%282018%29barebones.iso/download
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backi

Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 1341
Location: GERMANY

PostPosted: Wed 05 Jul 2017, 04:03    Post subject:  

Hi !
Sorry ....was wrong about zram........still working as usual .
Time zone setting also working .
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puppytahruser

Joined: 02 Oct 2016
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Fri 07 Jul 2017, 13:31    Post subject: download error
Subject description: d.e.
 

while i am trying to download 32bit iso, using wget ,following error showing: Read error at byte 146821/254803968 (error:1408F119:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:decryption failed or bad record mac)
both github and dropbox showing same error. how to solve this error?

Last edited by puppytahruser on Sat 08 Jul 2017, 04:37; edited 1 time in total
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2010
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Fri 07 Jul 2017, 18:06    Post subject: What's the easiest way to declare a copyright license
Subject description: EMPHASIS EASIEST -- LEAST INTRUSIVE LEAST WORK
 

Hi Toni and All,

I should have known better just from general law principals. But during 35 years of practice I never had a case involving Intellectual Properties Law. And while exploring Linux as a system, I never thought about it. I simple assumed that if something was licensed under the GPL, anyone could freely use it and modify it, but any modifications made would automatically also be licensed such that anyone could use it and modify it. In other words, the originator of any modification could not obtain a proprietary license. I suspect that is a common assumption, perhaps also assumed by Fred; and the root of misunderstanding which has been the bane of several threads.

mcewanw has recently posted on one of the thread regarding the "practicalities" of improper licensing, which is all well and good. However, better still would be a simple way to avoid improper licensing, especially when the publisher of code had no intention to obtain proprietary rights.

Delving deep into the maze of the Law is something I no longer generally find enjoyable, but the continuing flare up of controversy on the DebianDog threads --and especially your generous offer to try to straighten out the licensing problem as much as possible-- induced me to see I could help. Well, I can't. Sad I no longer have access to legal research resources that might have provided a pre-existing cord within the labyrinth.

But I had taken a couple of steps into the maze before realizing that; and from that prospective obtained a general understanding of the problem which may help others to better appreciate it. Or I could be completely wrong -- as I said, this was never my area of expertise.

As I also indicated, general law principal should have suggested that my assumption was wrong. The condition I mentioned --if you modify code which is licensed under the GPL, you can't claim a proprietary interest in your modification-- is referred to as "Copy Left". That's a cute and descriptive phrase, but it has no legal significance. Copyright Law --the actual Law-- exists to protect the property rights of someone who publishes. In essence, it provides that the publisher doesn't have to do anything. The mere act of publication creates the proprietary right of the publisher. At least, that's how I understand the Berne Copyright Convention, to which the US is a treaty member.

General principals of Law provide that --in the absence of Law to the contrary-- people have the right to do whatever they want.

But, unless I'm mistaken, what we refer to as the GPL (more accurately Gnu General Public License or GNU-GPL) isn't a "Law" at all. It's a recognized document which someone can employ by reference to define relationships. In fact, that's misleading because there is actually a series of documents (GPLv1, GPLv2 and GPLv3 --plus LGPL and maybe other variations-- some of whose terms conflict with the terms of others in the series). And, in addition to the above, there are "tons of alternatives". https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/31427/alternatives-to-the-gpl

The issues arises when someone publishes without specifically declaring any limitation of his/her rights or specifically limiting or extending the rights to anyone who employs his/her code.

Often in deciding similar issues the predominant factor would be the intent of the party, and in deciding that issue any relevant evidence would be admissible, including such things as the party's knowledge of the law, his/her state of mind, and his/her presumed (adequate notice) knowledge of all documentation relating to the project. What evidence do we have that the coder wanted GPLv2 rather than GPLv3 or MIT or LGPL? These are the kind of issues attorneys, if they are being paid by the hour, love. That is the reason why Judges --often under pressure to move a backlog of cases-- will try to find some reason to exclude such considerations.

If I were sitting as "Supreme Judge" I would be tempted to declare "the coder can obtain no right greater than that which was conveyed to him" -- one of the general rules of property law-- that is, his/her "copyright" is the least restrictive of those copyright declarations declared with respect to the code he/she modified. That, however, would present its own issue. Unlike physical property, intellectual property can exist in more than one place at a time. Is the code in question only usable within the context it was developed? Can it be employed in other contexts? Again, an invitation to litigation.

Which leads me to believe that consciously or unconsciously, copyright law applied an analog to the Law of Inheritance: if you didn't leave a Will, we apply the applicable Law of Intestate Succession which everyone is conclusively presumed to know (ha ha). So the property goes to your cousin 17 times removed, whom you never met, rather than your mistress who cared for you during the last five years of your terminal and debilitating illness. Twisted Evil

I haven't tried to figure out which of the many license declarations available would, in general, be most in harmony with the general objectives of those who undertake projects relating to the "DebianDogs" or Puppies. What do you think?

And while I've read https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-howto.html it seems like overkill. As a practical matter, should any code developed for one of our projects prove to have general commercial value, anyone claiming not to be bound by a simple declaration of intent would have an "up-hill" battle. What do you think the easiest way to express such intent to be?

mikesLr
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