DD (openbox)/XenialDog General Discussion Thread

[fredx181]

.

Try this one (thanks to ally ):
https://archive.org/download/Puppy_Linu ... -10-16.iso

That worked, no problems.

Is there a bug_fix / update squashfs I should also download?
Thank you.
.

Not a squashfs, but you may want to look here for some bug fixes:
https://github.com/DebianDog/Jessie/blo ... 6-10-16.md

[dancytron]

Since this is the Debian Dog maintenance thread, I thought I'd do a little Debian Dog maintenance.

I've upgraded (apt-get update and apt-get upgrade) and remastered the Stretch Dog version that I referenced in the second post. I included new intrd1.xz file that fixed the bug. Other than that and adding a few desktop links, I made no changes to it.

See my prior post for information on the source of this version. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 261#958261

While this is a test version Ive used it quite a bit and haven't noticed any real problems. It seems perfectly usable to me.

The only testing of the remaster itself was to install it from DD64 Jessie to a USB stick and see that it booted successfully and synaptic showed that it was fully upgraded.

The only feature it seems to be missing is the kernel upgrade script. I tried to install the one from Jessie Debian Dog 64. It seemed to install okay, but didn't find a new kernel. I think that is because it already has the newest kernel, but I am not 100% sure. I didn't include that in the remaster.

edit: links deleted. See link to new version below



edit: fixed link

edit: new version, see http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 812#958812

[saintless]

All my threads open with this message:

According to this post the thread stays open as a community project:

As I say, all dogs are community projects; no-one can ask for that work to be locked or deleted without agreement from the other contributors.

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=90586
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=100441
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=99460
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=93225
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=90660

Anything more you like me to add in the first post I can do it in the next few days.

Sorry Anikin. I'm not interested working on Stretch at this time. Do what you like with the threads as a community. You are one of the first contributors to the project. Now is the time you and other contributors to get more involved.

All the best!

Toni

[fredx181]

Hi Dan,

MD5 file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3st ... o.md5?dl=0

Both your url links are md5, no iso.

Fred

[dancytron]

Hi Dan,

MD5 file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3st ... o.md5?dl=0

Both your url links are md5, no iso.

Fred

Whoops. Will fix it now.

[anikin]

All my threads open with this message:

According to this post the thread stays open as a community project:

As I say, all dogs are community projects; no-one can ask for that work to be locked or deleted without agreement from the other contributors.

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=90586
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=100441
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=99460
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=93225
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=90660

Anything more you like me to add in the first post I can do it in the next few days.

Sorry Anikin. I'm not interested working on Stretch at this time. Do what you like with the threads as a community. You are one of the first contributors to the project. Now is the time you and other contributors to get more involved.

All the best!

Toni

Toni,

Don't rush to conclusions. Take your time and come back when you are ready. As I've said before, this project can run without you, but it will be a faulty project. I will not participate in it without you.

[backi]

Hi Toni !

It`s a pleasure to see you back in Town !

NOT kidding........

So Let`s praise the Lord ......Halleluja....!



Regards !

[backi]

Hi dancytron !

Looking for a challenge.
Is there a chance for 32 bit version to test ?

[fredx181]

Hi Toni,





Although you and I have different opinions, I think there's no need anymore for all the frictions.
So to accomplish that we both can do things "our own way in a peaceful manner" I have the following proposition about the DebianDog Organization:

- You become a member again of the DD org.
- You get full permissions for the particular DD repos, e.g. Wheezy, Jessie
This way you can create things exactly as you like, Wiiliam intends to help fixing the licence issue, perhaps e.g. via PM consultating you and me.
- I get no write permissions for that DD repos.
- I move XenialDog to elsewhere (and move away some more perhaps), since XenialDog is not pure 'non-free' anyway (Ubuntu doesn't have the strict policy that Debian has, as you know, and Xenialdog has also non-free firmware included)
- I will not create any repository in the DD Organization that doesn't fit with your standards. (probably keep only the doglinux website as my small contribution there)

Note that the above is just a proposition, I'm open for anything.
And of course all in consultation with William, he's the manager

Please think about it, and even if you don't have plans to work on fixing or releasing in the near future it might be good to arrange things different as soon as possible in the DD Organization.

P.S. You wrote some time ago about that all your commits in the Jessie repository were gone, well, that was not intentionally that I wanted to do such thing, it was just that I messed things up badly and it seemed as the only way out to start all over again.

Fred

[fredx181]

All my threads open with this message:

According to this post the thread stays open as a community project:

As I say, all dogs are community projects; no-one can ask for that work to be locked or deleted without agreement from the other contributors.

Following up on what Toni recently did, I re-opened all the 'Dog' threads that I started (and were being locked last week) also.

Fred

[dancytron]

Hi dancytron !

Looking for a challenge.
Is there a chance for 32 bit version to test ?

If there is an existing 32 bit stretch version, then I can upgrade it. I don't think Fred made one.

[backi]

Hi dancytron !
Not so urgent.......just suffered a bit of boredom !Have an "old " version from Debian Stretch installed to Usb-Stick ,so no need to cause you unnecessary work ...... would be redundant .
Deb Dog Jessie also still works like charme .
So thanks for your good will .

[saintless]

Hi Toni,





Although you and I have different opinions, I think there's no need anymore for all the frictions.
So to accomplish that we both can do things "our own way in a peaceful manner" I have the following proposition about the DebianDog Organization:

- You become a member again of the DD org.
- You get full permissions for the particular DD repos, e.g. Wheezy, Jessie
This way you can create things exactly as you like, Wiiliam intends to help fixing the licence issue, perhaps e.g. via PM consultating you and me.
- I get no write permissions for that DD repos.
- I move XenialDog to elsewhere (and move away some more perhaps), since XenialDog is not pure 'non-free' anyway (Ubuntu doesn't have the strict policy that Debian has, as you know, and Xenialdog has also non-free firmware included)
- I will not create any repository in the DD Organization that doesn't fit with your standards. (probably keep only the doglinux website as my small contribution there)

Note that the above is just a proposition, I'm open for anything.
And of course all in consultation with William, he's the manager

Please think about it, and even if you don't have plans to work on fixing or releasing in the near future it might be good to arrange things different as soon as possible in the DD Organization.

P.S. You wrote some time ago about that all your commits in the Jessie repository were gone, well, that was not intentionally that I wanted to do such thing, it was just that I messed things up badly and it seemed as the only way out to start all over again.

Fred

Hi Fred.

This sounds like a cheap trading to me. I will take DebianDog, you will take XenialDog, William is the owner of the organisation page and manager... What happened with the community project? I asked for reopening the threads because William complains about locking his own work in the community threads. Where is the community part in all this?

Let me remind you the community work behind DebianDog (and behind MintPup and XenialDog):

I like to give my Thanks to Smokey and KazzaMozz for hosting DebianDog project here, here, here,
to Debian team for keeping Debian such flexible system,
to this forum for the opportunity to work on a project different from puppy linux,
to our forum members working on DebianDog development: Fred (fredx181), Terry (sunburnt), William (mcewanw), Sergey (sklimkin),
and for the valuable advices to: jbv, sfs, catsezmoo, big_bass, emil, dancytron, anikin from our forum
and dzz from www.debianuserforums.org
And to Sickgut for his original idea that made possible DebianDog to exist.

I asked for one simple thing here and none of you did it:

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=93225

My last request to you, William, is to include the credits from the link above somewhere easy readable on the DebianDog organisation page.

Show some respect to the people who really made this project and post the credits in every of your projects pages. Don't play the silly game "I'm solo developer and I build all alone with some help from my new friends".
Your new friends have nothing to do with any Dog project except using our work for free. Read the names above again and show some respect to those people. I don't care if you say sorry to me, but do it for them!

About your suggestion I don't think me or you can make this project community one. I can be only contributor if the community really takes over the project. That includes XenialDog. It should be called UbuntuDog-Xenial instead. I'm sure you know which is the UbuntuDog-Trusty (+ some extra repo access).
Then we can talk about license and non-free issues. Reading your words I think you don't understand the real problem with non-free. Ubuntu respects the non-free license. XenialDog does not. BTW you have non-free firmware included from your very first DebianDog-openbox version, even not registered in dpkg as non-free.

You don't have to answer me if it is not your type of communication. The Puppy forum community is in charge now for all dog projects. Let them decide the future. Or continue the solo game with your new friends. Just give the deserved credits to the real people behind all Dog based projects. I've never asked anything more from you.

Toni

[dancytron]

Hi dancytron !
Not so urgent.......just suffered a bit of boredom !Have an "old " version from Debian Stretch installed to Usb-Stick ,so no need to cause you unnecessary work ...... would be redundant .
Deb Dog Jessie also still works like charme .
So thanks for your good will .

If you have a link to a 32 bit Debian Stretch version that doesn't have a buggy experimental window manager, post it and I'll try to upgrade and remaster it.

[fredx181]

This sounds like a cheap trading to me....
...

It's not meant as a trading from my side, my proposition is just an attempt to let you know that:
You and I can try to forget about what happened in the past and make a new start, so that you can do your constructive thing and I do mine.

Just thought it might be good that you have the opportunity to rebuild the github DD organization just the way you like without being obstructed in some way by me (or differences in opinion or whatever differences).
Please think about something like that, or maybe you have another proposition that makes a fresh start possible?

My interest is to just end the conflicts and I'm wide open for anything that can lead to that.

Fred

[mcewanw]

This sounds like a cheap trading to me. I will take DebianDog, you will take XenialDog, William is the owner of the organisation page and manager...

Hi Toni,

Rest assured the proposition isn't some form of cheap trading though I understand your concerns.

Actually, I PM'd Fred yesterday to tell him I was very unhappy with the way he was approaching the matters, and very critical of the attitude, which needed sorted out, and he accepted that and agreed to change approach. It's correct of course that anyone can fork DebianDog (including XenialDog variant) and that fork can include free or non-free, but I look forward to your continuing more rigorously to Debian Standards with DebianDog. Complete waste if we let these projects die, and be forgotten about by everyone, otherwise, as they soon would.

And I have insisted on the community project nature of both.

As for the organisation page, which would only now be for DebianDog, I do not intend continuing to own or manage that - I will be passing the ownership/management of it over to you. Of course, it is a community resource and how it gets managed should be up to the community, but someone appropriate has to take day to day charge of it anyway and ensure it is maintained as a community resource rather than something personal that could suddenly be deleted following disputes and so on. Hopefully it has been useful someone like myself having had a more neutral control over it thus far, but I am happy to pass that torch over to you.

And even if neither Fred nor yourself work further on either DebianDog or the XenialDog fork it is still important to move towards fixing the scripts licensing situation and separating the projects out so others in the community have a chance to continue them.

Hope that helps put your mind at ease.

William

[saintless]

Hi Fred, William.

OK, I will think about how to fix all again and try to make it a community project.
Give me few days to think about it.
I hope there will be someone from the people I mentioned in the credits who likes to be part of the organisation page.

Toni

[saintless]

In my mind something like this should be the starting point:

William,
You are the owner of the github organisation. I think you should keep this position. Or invite someone else to replace you. Like Terry or even some of the forum moderators here (DebianDog development exists thanks to them also). I don't want you to transfer me the ownership and I would accept this only if you insist and you don't have any other option. Fred is a good choice too.

DebianDog and XenialDog stay in the same organisation page. I will probably add there MintPup and DD-Squeeze later.

Fred (and maybe William also),
some work you should do before anything like that can happen.

1. Post on the home page credits to the people who made all Dog based projects possible (including this forum and Debian team). Any newer contributors you like to add there below now and in the future is OK for me.

2. Upload archive with all older versions of the scripts as source (you can find them inside DD-Jwm (/opt/bin/special) and here:
http://smokey01.com/saintless/source-code/
And add link to the sources of DebianDog - Debian-live images. You can simply use link to my uploads here if you like:
https://github.com/MintPup/Retro-Debian ... /tag/v.1.0

3. Add GPL - license to each existing DebianDog-XenialDog repository and post in separate (like License-readme.md) document - the iso could include scripts and packages with different license. Add there also all scripts created for DebianDog without license are result from this forum community work and GPL license applies to all. If anyone of the contributors/authors have claims for different license the information will be changed or the script/contribution will be removed/replaced with different code in next iso update. Add also there if someone can find part of his/her code included without source link the information in the script will be updated. This means some e-mail should be available on the organisation page.

4. Add in every repository with non-free packages that the iso includes non-free packages and the people have to download the man-doc-info.squashfs together with the iso (since it containes the non-free packages license information). Should be enough for now.
The extra squashfs modules containing non-free packages should have the non-free license inside but you can change that slowly in time if you update them. Maybe we can agree about something better for your new non-free iso versions later if you like.

5. Any iso version that doesn't have a maintainer/developer at the moment will have something like "Maintainer or developer wanted" message on the project page. Anyone who wants to work on this abandoned project can take it and develop it according the license agreement we accept.

If you do this frst I will accept new invitation to the organisation page. Open for suggestions if you see some problem I miss in all this.

My part in the future:
I will continue to work as a maintainer of projects before 2015 - MintPup and DebianDog-Jwm Squeeze, Wheezy, Jesssie 32-bit versions (if someone else doesn't want to maintain them). I can update also the OpenBox 32-bit older versions from Fred the same way if he doesn't plan to work on them. But I will have to remove the non-free firmware first.
When I think it is time to work on new DD-related project I will start one, fork one or take one of the existing without maintainer. Anyone else can do the same. This is what the organisation owners should be able to do - give new people access to maintain abandoned iso versions.

Toni

[mcewanw]

Hi Toni,

Despite having once read up on github usage and having encouraged Fred and yourself to use it and opened the site as thus 'owner', as you know, I myself have never used it since. Since my knowledge of github was thus brief and years ago, I am pretty hopeless at finding or adding or modifying anything on it, which doesn't mean I won't try.

With my above comment in mind, I cannot say I know how much work is involved in what you suggest but please remember that we don't do this particular project development work for a profession - we are a tiny team of amateurs (unlike Debian itself) and just do such project work for fun. However, bearing my limited skills in mind, I have tried to make a brief start in terms of adding acknowledgments to some of the projects on there. I haven't touched XenialDog for the moment, because Fred has to decide about everything too. Also, probably because I am hopeless at github management I have no idea how to add acknowledgements to the start page - so my quick efforts are just an encouragement for everyone to resolve these matters. My hopelessness at github is another reason why I will not be the manager of the site; someone else will need to be identified.

I think it is fair to say that we are all responsible for the mess in licenses not being maintained/declared properly so the work should not all just fall into Fred's hands, which would surely be too much to ask. If we are in agreement to resolve/fix the issues then please let's all of us be willing to get our hands dirty rather than waiting on anyone else to do the work first. If there is no fun, there will be no-one willing to develop I fear.

Cheers, William

[fredx181]

Hi Toni,

Well, of course I said that I'm open for anything, but really, I think you don't understand who I am. So, a little about the "me now" first:
I'm just a simple guy with over-interest in Linux, call me an amateur and I'd agree.
Also I'm not a "purist" and not as ambitious anymore as I was before.
I don't want at all to have the stamp "Debiandog Maintainer" or whatever, my plans for the future is to share a little and maybe help here and there.
And if I might share something in the future that's similar to DebianDog, I call it "<name> this a fork of DebianDog" (or derative, whatever). (if you have other suggestion please say it)
Also I can call Xenialdog "a fork" or "born out of community project 'Debiandog'" if you would have objection to how I call it now.
Still think it's better to move Xenialdog away from the DD org. unless someone is willing to work on licencing etc.. (obviously not me)

Admitted: It was wrong by me continuing under the name Debiandog after you left the DD organization.
So I stopped working on Debiandog and I really thought, a few months ago, when you said "no more conflicts" that I could start or do my own thing, no matter if you or anyone likes how it's setup.

About community project: Yes, the way we worked on Debiandog it was, but after you left, I can hardly call the 'Dogs' a community project anymore, except William's contributions on Xenialdog and some "side" projects by 'dancytron' and 'The Flying Cat' (as far as I can remember), but don't get me wrong, indeed all was born out of a community project you started and it's a good thing that all the threads are now open again.

My age is 60 now and my health isn't as well anymore than a few years ago.
So please, don't confront me with a big list of things I have to do on a project that I'm no part of anymore (DebianDog).
Can't you do these things you mention as required "before you accept the invitation" yourself ? I'm sure you can do it better than me because you know exactly what and how you want it.
And about older or newer openbox version, I promise I won't complain about whatever you do, even not if you delete them (not that I expect you to do the latter, btw).

Hopefully it's more clear now where I stand.
Let's just make an arrangement that's simple for me to let me 'get out' of the DD org. for the most part, please.

EDIT: Didn't read William's message before I posted this.
Indeed github is diffucult, I have some experience the last year, but still feel clumsy and don't have any experience how to handle e.g. multiple users doing commits and also: mixing doing commits on the website itself and from the commandline.
To prevent strange things occur, I always use commandline pushing and I use --force (maybe that's wrong)

Fred